Be Excellent To Each Other

Come on woman!

Heh, well we've got all weekend.

Just looking at stuff now. Warning - I've had wine.

lol the truth shall rise to the surface with the booze then are you evil?

Okay, assuming we do go ahead and have Russ arrested, what's the plan then? I know it was my idea, but it was originally based on the misunderstanding that Robin could take Batman's powers while he's in prison. Without that, we'd have Batman neutralised, and able to tell us the role of one person. And we'd probably be down two townies.

After that, then what?

I'm guessing Russ could steer us away from lynching innocents, but there's a good chance we'll lose another two townies tonight.

That'd leave us with 5 players including me who could be evil (discounting Russ, and also Gazchap, Joans and Slightly Green because all killers have struck while they've been arrested).

ie:

goddess jasmine
gospvg
Grim...
Jon.J
kalmar
KovacsC
sinister agent

(not listed: Joans (?), Slightly Green, GazChap. Mr Russell)

Assuming two of us cark it tonight, that leaves us with five, two of whom would (probably) be killers. Assuming there are no more henchmen (which I think we can agree is likely, but not certain), we'd still be in a precarious position with no investigating/killing roles.

If you are going to go ahead and ask to be arrested Russ (and sorry if I'm being patronising here), please consider carefully who you've investigated so far and what help that will be tomorrow.

Oh, and if we lynch tonight and don't get a villain, and the killers don't hit each other, we'd be down to 4.


Oh wait, jailed people get vot... oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

Right, sorry, I'm being a spaz. I'm goin to sober up before I post again, sorry.

Okay, so here are my thoughts/observations.

GazChap - Just pops in to make sure he has made a post most days, I know he is in jail at the moment, so doesn't have much of a 'role' anyway, not that that should stop any kind of contribution. I do worry that he is playing the 'stay quiet and hope they don't notice me' card.
gospvg - Not sure if he is deliberatly trying to sow confusion, posts a bit all over the place. Keeps saying that people has come out and said they are good when I have seen no such posts. Listing people as good/evil with little justification. From his last few posts to Russ I am wondering if he is police though.
Grim... - Seems to be playing constructively, but not getting too in depth with things either. Hmm.
Joans - very quite, almost too quite.
Jon.J - Suggested a day one mass claim. SA clarifies the jail rules and he claims he is helping the bad guys. (Don't think SA would have mentioned it to everyone if he was a bad guy himself) Davpaz says "Jon j has no reason to protect me from a lynch, unless he knows something I don't" Trying to distance themselves? He seems to be playing more to a 'town' win condition now, could be in cahoots with gospvg.
kalmar - Voting for Davpaz even though he said Grim...s argument was a bit thin. Voted for Gazchap even though he said Curio was only doing it because he had something against him. Quite a bit of posting, but nothing much to add to the game.
KovacsC - Agreed with Jon.J about SA, again not adding anything, just seeming to add confusion.
Mr Russell - Batfink!
sinister agent - Seems to be being genuinely helpful. Asked for protection on day one. I've read through all of his posts now and everything he has said would seem to be contructive towards a 'town' win condition. Disclaimer - I know he has seemed very townie before and been scum - so beware!! But I'm not suss of him at the moment.
Slightly Green - Lots of innocent claims, but could just be playing to character.

I am wondering if Jon.J is the last possible henchman.

Agree with leaving the people in jail alone for now, at least they are powerless.

Russ, if you do decide on a course of action that allows you to continue to investigate, please investigate someone who you suspect to be scummy so we can focus a lynch accordingly. I would still like to see lynching held off until everyone has had a chance to speak though. Even if we decide to lynch Z, we might find out a lot from listening to A, B and C for example.

Tired now. x

Ha! This is exactly what my brain is doing. I shall be back along tomorrow.

Sorry, I just saw this, obviously missed it earlier. I'm not going to do any more analysing as I'm too drunk and tired to be sensible, but my earlier suspicions that still remain are:

gospvg
KovacsC
Jon.J

But I don't really have much to go on, Jon.J has been quite calm and measured in his responses to my attention (and I didn't die after pressing him), and I haven't really pressed Kovacs yet.

I think gos should be investigated tonight. If pushed to lynch, I'd either pick someone who's been fairly quiet, or Jon.J .

But I'm reluctant to go for Jon as I don't feel very confident about it. I will probably do a mass reading of the whole week before deciding (not now), unless you take the lead.

Also, Russ, have you considered arresting someone tonight instead of investigating them?

If you arrest a townie, no real harm is done as they can still vote (okay, the hit odds change, also), and it's more likely that you'll hit a villain than an innocent, especially with what you know so far. The odds are better that we'll arrest a villain than a goodie, plus if you try it on the jailer, you'll effectively investigate him anyway.

The only danger there is if you arrest the cop, which is the least likely outcome, and there's a fair chance the jailer's going to buy it soon anyway so it may not matter. Plus, if that happens, you may have enough information to call for and validate a mass roleclaim if you're still alive.

If you do arrest a villain tonight, you'd halve our mortality rate, effectively doubling our time, and we'd still (quite likely) have two arresting characters in play by tomorrow, and the option to protect or investigate if needed.

And I really am going to stop posting soon. Shush.

I don't really need to say much IMO, I'm innocent as proven by people being killed while I'm in jail, and Brainiac already being deaded.

Consequently, I'm just sitting here in the background, taking everything in and I'll vote for whoever I think is scummiest when I feel the time is right. The honour of which, at the moment at least, goes to kalmar incidentally.

OOC: Not needing to say much is actually working out quite well, as my life has gotten rather busier in the last few days which is really quite annoying in Mafia respects, but awesome in every other way

I disagree, we need as many options and opinions as possible.
Can you give us a reason though? Just for the sake of discussion and because you may have picked up on something that someone else hasn't.[/quote]
This I can most definitly identify with!

Bah, messed up the quotes a bit, nm. Gaz, I'm not just talking about contributing to defend yourself. (sorry, I meant to mention that, I'm rushing because I'm on my way out.)

Might not be able to post again until tomorrow.

Jon.J summed it up nicely:
[quote=Jon.J]This was in response to Curio starting a waggon on gazchap for being a potential brainiac. Kalmar, if you think Curio had something against gazchap, why follow Curio blindly? Then later Kalmar suggests that that Curio could be on the same team as DavPaz... WTF? Kalmar, why are you following the voting suggestions of someone you think could be evil?[/quote]
Curio was trying to lead a bandwagon on me being Brainiac, when we now know that he was. The WTF? bit at the end of Jon.Js quote makes complete sense to me, if you suspect someone's evil you wouldn't follow their vote pattern.

Also, kalmar has posted:
[quote=kalmar]The guy is scum, he wants everyone dead, and is latching on to Jon.j's faulty arguments.[/quote]
gospvg is certainly suss, but to say he wants everyone dead seems odd. I also don't see the flaws in any of Jon.J's logic.

That said, I'm not totally convinced kalmar's a baddie, hence the lack of a vote. He's certainly highest on my "radar" though.

Wuh? What's wrong with my quotes there?

At the minute gospvg and jon.j are pretty high on my radar.

You will need me when the time comes to decide.

Well since gospvg has been top of my radar for a few days [vote:gospvg]. Unless Mr R prefers to go for Jon.J or anyone else 1st.

OK, gospvg, you're dropping some pretty heavy hints that you're the policeman.

Anyone want to counterclaim that?

Could this be a slip up? since 2 evil characters are left is gospvg admitting to being one of them? Tune in next time...blah blah

**Have had a few beers so am probably not thinking 100% straight

I was hoping that he would stop doing that, which is why I dropped my pressure on him a few pages back, in the hope that it would go unnoticed so we could check him out tonight. Apparently not.

So yes, this is why I think he should be investigated. Also I was about to post the below before reading the above few posts:


19 players

sup [x]
bat
rob
cop
jail
(5)/(4)


jok
brain [x]
ll
hench [x]
hench [x]
hench [x]
(6)/(2)


That leaves us with 8 bystanders, now reduced to 5. Which is quite a lot.

I'm guessing that we do indeed have a fourth henchman somewhere. Not a priority now, and I have reason to suspect it's someone in the clink anyway. But be ye wary.

Having re-read, Kalmar is a bit of a blip, but I'm inclined to think he's on the level.

Gos remains on my list, but I think he should be investigated, not offed or arrested.

Kovacs is making me even more more suspicious.

There is one person I think has been a little suspicious, but my feeling that they are in fact Robin is keeping me from naming them.

Voting for Jon.J makes me feel almost like I'm betraying him, because he's been quite reasonable with me, and I do feel a bit bad for insistently picking on a new player (well, new here, anyway).

Both of which make me think that I should, in fact, vote for him. I also think that arresting tonight would be better than investigating, because it's likely you'll catch a villain.

Mr Russell, care to explain why I'm high on your suspicious list?

It's difficult for me to dispute you thinking I'm scum without you outlining why you think that. I'll do my sinister agent write up in a bit.

Waste of an opportunity to investigate me how about you or kovac?

Investigating means we're pretty much guaranteed two kills tonight, and it's getting likely that we'll lose someone very important.

Arresting means there is a good chance (possibly as high as 50/50 depending on who Russ has investigated so far) that we will catch a killer, which will halve our mortality rate. I think I already said this, but I'm emphasising it now. It would have the side effect of also acting as an investigate if the jailer is targeted, if he hasn't been already.

Sinister Agent, don't feel bad about voting for me, I wont take offence. It's mafia, everyone gets voted for sooner or later.

What I would ask though is, like Mr Russell, you post your reasoning for thinking I'm scum, that way we can discuss it and I can show you that I'm not scum.

Oh, I just got what you meant there, sorry. I meant either investigate you or arrest someone else. Obviously we don't want to arrest the cop.

Or Kalmar needs investigating assuming none of you three get lynched

I think we should go with the original plan of lynching one & arresting one. Russ should defend unless he wants to be arrested, although he will be useless in jail so is better out.

Right, I can see several people have picked up on my slightly eccentric looking comments, so I'm going to have a go at explaining this and hopefully take me off the hitlist, since I am merely an innocent bystander.

First day was voting for davpaz, early on. My comment was, 'it's a bit thin'. I should have expanded that - 'but it's as good as we've got right now'. Later comments by DP cemented my suspicion of him and I was glad that we lynched the right person.

Second day I voted for Gazchap. I already thought he was a bit quiet so worthy of a vote, so backed Curio on that one. I had noticed him point the finger at gazchap before, so it was an honest observation, but I thought he might have intel. My comment was almost a riff on the previous day, where I had thrown a vote in, along with a doubtful comment. Well, it had worked!

Soon after I reviewed curio's posts and voting pattern and became suspicious for him, and as soon as I voiced this, Russell jumped in and strongly supported that, eventually revealing he was batman, and without rushing I also changed my vote to Curio.
As it turns out, curio couldn't have known davpaz was bad (i think) so his last minute vote wasn't a valid indicator of badness, I'll admit that, but he did turn out bad.

So although those comments do look a bit contradictory now, I can assure you that this is down to me having no other information to go on, being a little bit gung-ho for a change, and wanting to move the game forward in the towns favour. Again, I am pleased with my record so far.

Jon's interpretation of all this as making me bad was a little frustrating but I hope the above points allay any concerns.


Now, as to who I suspect today, I'm still going to say gospvg. He's either a baddie or he has a good role and is overplaying his hand so we need to apply a bit more pressure I think

And yes, feel free to investigate me!

Process of elimination. I know the identity of Robin, and two others. We know that the people in jail cannot be Lex or The Joker (but may still be a henchman).

That leaves five players I don't know about. One of them has been talkative. One has not said a lot. One is a policeman. One I believe to be above suspicion from what they've said on past days. The other is you. And you're an unknown quantity to me. (Get an avatar ).

Would people prefer it if I spilled the beans on what I know today, or would you rather we arrest me tonight so that I can get one more investigate in?

Same reasons I gave the other day, really. Pushing for a mass roleclaim, appearing to not see the obvious disadvantages of that, accusing me of trying to make it easier for the villains to win (as GJ pointed out, I wouldn't have questioned the rules publically if so. Also, note that this is also a reason I am suspicious of Kovacs, who pressed the point even after I countered it), suggesting that people should answer any questions directed at them (would make life absurdly easy for the villains), saying you'd "get the ball rolling" on declaring superman protection (I'd already done so early on), accusing me of "scaremongering" for criticising a mass roleclaim.

However, while that looks like a lot, it's still quite flimsy and could be easily explained. Plus you've (a) not killed me after our exchange and (b) been quite reasoned, calm, and logical.

And you've backed off me since, when it would have been pretty easy to push for a charge against me with the sheer volume of things I've said. Hell, past experience has taught me that people don't even need to say why they suspect me to get a bad lynch going.

A main reason I'm thinking of voting for you is precisely because I feel like it'd be a betrayal. Inducing that in someone is a terrific strategy for any villain. I know that's not very fair or logical though, hence the uncertainty.

Well I've gone and uploaded an avatar!

I can't argue against process of elimination. If it had been something in my posts I'd have been happy to go through and explain my though processes but if that's what you want to lynch me on then go ahead.

Do you want me to spell my role out?
WITHOUT ME you will not be able to complete Russ's plan

I re-ask for anyone to come out and counterclaim.

By the way, that post was to Mr Russell, this post is to Sinister Agent.

I never pushed for a mass claim, I asked what people thought of it. It's one of those topics that polarizes people and gets them talking. In this particular game, it didn't. But it's worked in the past.

I honestly think everyone should answer all questions they get asked, that's how I think mafia games should work. I don't see how it would make it easier for the villains, talking can only help the town.

Getting the ball rolling, I used that phrase as I hadn't realised anyone had previously stated they hadn't been protected by superman.

I still think you were scaremongering, you used a worst case scenario to argue against my idea. Jumping to the worst possible scenario to me, sounds like scaremongering.

No I think you should defend yourself, so at least you will be out to investigae.
We can lynch one & the policeman can arrest another.

Just name the names on who you want to lynch & arrest & we will do the deed.

I'm not counter-claiming.

Also, I really dislike this whole "claiming but not claiming" thing that's happened in this game. If you're saying who you are just fucking say it obviously.

Taking the list from Sinister Agent of evil characters left with possibly another henchman?

jok
brain [x]
ll
hench [x]
hench [x]
hench [x]
(6)/(2)
& the list of players in the game who are not in jail

goddess jasmine
gospvg
Grim...
Jon.J
kalmar
KovacsC
Mr Russell
sinister agent

From that list only 2 I can say for certain are good Russ & Me
so from the other 6, 2 of you are evil.

goddess jasmine
Grim...
Jon.J
kalmar
KovacsC
sinister agent

I'll leave it to you Russ to decide 2 names form the list above who you want to list & arrest.

SuperScum 2 : Day 4
VOTE UPDATE

gospvg: 2 (kalmar, Slightly Green)
kalmar: 2 (Jon.J, gospvg)

Not voted: 7 (gazchap, goddess jasmine, grim..., joans, kovacsc, mr russell, sinister agent)

With 11 players alive, 6 votes are required for a lynch, and 8 nolynch votes are required to not lynch anybody.

http://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/counter/

If I keep protecting myself each night I can't investigate though. If we were sure enough of who the baddie were to lynch one and arrest the other then I'd have said let's go for it. But we aren't sure, so...

OK. If I name two names I think are most suspect right now, we HAVE to be sure, because if we only get one of them, then the killer will come after me. And if we were sure, then we don't need my investigate ability any more anyway, so the plan becomes moot...?

gospvg: 2 (kalmar, Slightly Green)

The two players who voted for me currently, Slightly Green is in jail so we don;t need to look at him.
But Kalmar needs looking into.

The worst case scenario was also the most statistically likely, making it the best possible example to use. I almost always present best/worst case and most/least likely outcomes - that's what I do.



I thought this was pretty obvious. Joker asks who three people are. Two are innocent, one the cop. There are three killers who now have targets, and only two protective roles, who also double as our arresting and investigative ones. It removes options for the power roles, exposes them, helps the villains prioritise their targets, and generally does more harm than good.

Also note that Craster, a henchman, was particularly keen to ask me questions that I obviously didn't want to answer. And that I tried to draw attention away from Gos when he hinted at being the cop, in order to protect him.

I think for today that is a safe bet, you need to protect yourself because you can't die.
See who we get for today lynched & in jail. If evil superhero is in jail he cannot kill.
We will find out who we lynched be it a bystander or evil.

It's not uncommon round this way. Direct roleclaims are fairly uncommon, and some roleclaims are ridiculously vague.

It may be frustrating, but it's safer for the claimant, and also it makes for a hilarious post-game analysis.

Sinister Agent: So um, we shouldn't be asking each other questions? I think this is just a difference in play styles. I believe that the biggest and best thing the town can ever do, in any game of mafia is have a good discussion involving everyone.

Yes especially the quiet players today that are not jailed.

Grim...
kalmar
KovacsC

Only way it makes it safer for the claimant is if they are scum doing a fake claim. If you're saying you are a power role then you've already painted a target on yourself, you might as well say which one you are so that we can see if someone counterclaims.

That's what we've been doing (apart from the people who continue to be very quiet, which always bothers me and there's always a quiet villain). I do, however, think that answering a question that will put you in danger is a bad idea if you're an important character. Which is why I didn't ask who Gos was, but instead suggested we investigate him tonight.

No we can't have Russ investigate, we need him to defend so he does not die.

Just re-read the actions of the superheroes & Robin can also investigate. So I would suggest Batman defends & Robin investigates one of the following (assuming of course one of them is robin) apart from whoever we decide to lynch & arrest today.

goddess jasmine
Grim...
Jon.J
kalmar
KovacsC
sinister agent