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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 22:27 
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Sometimes I don't know where you get your ideas from. Nobody is saying, or has ever said 'NERF SHREDDER NOW'. I feel like a couple of bad experiences on the receiving end colour your view.

If anything TGT nerfed it with some highly variable 2-drops. Darnassus Aspirant losing you a mana crystal? Huge potential tempo loss. If silenced it's a poor value 4/3. Ultimate it's a card like any other, and is a bit of a random pick if you aren't playing a mech deck. If you're just popping it into your decks automatically then your deck isn't very specialised, and possibly just not very good. I don't know of any decks, even mech ones, where the Shredder was a fundamental card.

In Arena it's a bit better, but that's about it.

Like you though I'm mostly flipping quests. Over 1k gold, can't be arsed to do much with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:18 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Sometimes I don't know where you get your ideas from. Nobody is saying, or has ever said 'NERF SHREDDER NOW'. I feel like a couple of bad experiences on the receiving end colour your view.

If anything TGT nerfed it with some highly variable 2-drops. Darnassus Aspirant losing you a mana crystal? Huge potential tempo loss. If silenced it's a poor value 4/3. Ultimate it's a card like any other, and is a bit of a random pick if you aren't playing a mech deck. If you're just popping it into your decks automatically then your deck isn't very specialised, and possibly just not very good. I don't know of any decks, even mech ones, where the Shredder was a fundamental card.


The overall verdict on TGT for Shredder was that it stayed about the same, with outliers like Aspirant going into the same category as Doomsayer - i.e. it's so rare that it doesn't affect the card. (One of the top players (Reynad?) has said it's basically a 5-mana card for 4-mana.) I wouldn't go that far but it certainly needs to be a 4/2 IMO.

It won't go into most specialised decks (although Trump felt it was a worthy inclusion in Oil Rogue to give it some board presence), but in any sort of minion-tussling deck, it's a choice you won't go far wrong with. (Just check out the deck lists on Icy Veins and see how much it turns up.)

The issue I have with it is that's a rather boring, ubiquitous card, capable of horrible RNG swings, but whose fundamental stats makes it a very tempting inclusion in a large number of decks. On average it's a 6/5 for 4 mana, which is big numbers for small mana.

IIRC in his pre-TGT previews Trump dropped Shredder to a 4/2, that seems right to me.

EDIT - If you look at Sludge Belcher that seems right to me, it's a Senjin and a Goldshire Footman in one card, with the mana cost added together to give 5.

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Like you though I'm mostly flipping quests. Over 1k gold, can't be arsed to do much with it.


Save it for the next expansion? If they follow the same routine as they have thus far it'll be a Naxx/Blackrock style thing so will take a big wedge of gold to unlock all the wings.

I'm buying a few TGT packs every time I get to a few hundred gold, getting a dreadful run on epics though (not seeing many at all), and Wrynn was the only legendary I've had for ages.

Would quite like a Ysera for Dragon Priest, and I believe I need those epic ones that get taunt if you have a dragon in hand. But outside of Tavern Brawl I'm not getting any classic packs so I might have to bite the bullet on 1600 dust for Ysera.

Dragon Priest is a remarkably 'clean' Priest deck in that it doesn't do much in the way of trickery and thievery.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:27 
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Hearthly wrote:
Dragon Priest is a remarkably 'clean' Priest deck in that it doesn't do much in the way of trickery and thievery.


I'm playing a Dragon Priest variant at the moment (I drew two priest quests win 3 and win 5) and there are a few 'steal' things in there but not much (Cabal with a shrink and Mind Control Tech) , no card steals and no mind control itself.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/312259-t ... gon-priest is the basis for mine - I'm missing Vol'Jin and Yersa and Fjola - swapped in Alex and another Dragonkin Sorcerer and Sylvanas


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:58 
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Reynad is a chundering arsehole, can't stand the guy or anything he has to say about anything.

Shredder - couldn't care less about it. If it's really that big of a problem you can run an extra silence and then it's terrible for its cost. I barely even notice the card exists, particularly when there are just so many other options for the slot now.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 22:22 
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Trump isn't going to make it with the F2P Priest, he disappeared for over a week to attend various Cons. Currently Rank 4 with only today and tomorrow left.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 15:15 
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Still, Rank 4 is a very solid achievement with that deck.

He's beaten down just about every other deck along the way, including really horrible match-ups for the deck.

Great fun to watch, with some fantastic plays I'd simply never have thought of.

Will be sorry to see the run finish and him go back to 'normal' decks TBH.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 19:13 
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The new Tavern Brawl is a riot :)

ROBOT WARS!


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 21:10 
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Rank 14 chest got me :

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 0:07 
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I got the same, but ten more dust, for level 12 (different cards, same rarity levels).

Bit of a shit boost for 2 levels!

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 13:55 
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zaphod79 wrote:

I also had a card played against me which needs to go on my 'must craft' list - the only real issue is that its a priest only

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22368-co ... -paletress

So drop the card , and each tap of your hero power spawns another legendary on the board.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 14:39 
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Realistically you'd have to play her with 9 mana, so you're guaranteed at least one extra legendary, because let's face it, she won't last more than one turn - especially with those stats.

The other issue of course, is that there are quite a lot of shit legendaries out there, or legendaries where the stats are poor but it's only the Battlecry that makes them interesting. I assume you don't get the Battlecry? So if you get a Harrison Jones for example, he won't destroy a weapon?


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 15:15 
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Hearthly wrote:
So if you get a Harrison Jones for example, he won't destroy a weapon?


Correct - so either single use or you need stuff to buff her

When i had the card played against me i did not have something to kill her instantly so he got 2 legendary s (Raggy and something mid range out of her) - if she was a Mage's card then I'd be playing her with a duplicate already in place.

And i've not had it happen (but I've seen it on you tube) - she can draw herself so your then doubling up on Legendary cards


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 18:27 
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So this is an interesting one - get a card appropriate to the round - i bet there are ways to exploit it by only having 1 of a type (e.g. i'm playing a mage and only have flamestrike as a 7 point card so i *will* draw it on round 7

Yeah so
Turn 7 - Flamestrike
Turn 8 - Raggy
Turn 9 - Alex
Turn 10 - Pyroblast


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 18:56 
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zaphod79 wrote:
So this is an interesting one - get a card appropriate to the round - i bet there are ways to exploit it by only having 1 of a type (e.g. i'm playing a mage and only have flamestrike as a 7 point card so i *will* draw it on round 7

Yeah so
Turn 7 - Flamestrike
Turn 8 - Raggy
Turn 9 - Alex
Turn 10 - Pyroblast


Having a single Mana Wyrm in your deck can start things off nicely too... (Or two for insurance against an unfortunate early death.)


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 20:15 
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Hearthly wrote:
zaphod79 wrote:
So this is an interesting one - get a card appropriate to the round - i bet there are ways to exploit it by only having 1 of a type (e.g. i'm playing a mage and only have flamestrike as a 7 point card so i *will* draw it on round 7

Yeah so
Turn 7 - Flamestrike
Turn 8 - Raggy
Turn 9 - Alex
Turn 10 - Pyroblast


Having a single Mana Wyrm in your deck can start things off nicely too... (Or two for insurance against an unfortunate early death.)


I have a leper gnome as my 1 point card - so i will always draw that first regardless of what i have in hand - it makes the mulligan at the start interesting as well as you 'know' what you will draw at later points


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 15:25 
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So now the arena rewards random packs? If it is, i'm extremely unlucky because i got 3 core packs in a row. Just because of that i stopped playing arena altogether.

It would only be far if Tavern brawl packs were also random, because let's face it, core packs at tis time are usually just getting a few dust.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 15:29 
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Didn't noticed there was such big fuss over shredder. Don't see the point really. It's a fun and good, but not overpowered card.

Don't see any reason to nerf it. I never get any kind of desperation from when the opponent drops one, as it's usual when I used to get from a Necropotence or Tolarian Academy from the days when i played magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 15:31 
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RuySan wrote:
So now the arena rewards random packs? If it is, i'm extremely unlucky because i got 3 core packs in a row. Just because of that i stopped playing arena altogether.

It would only be far if Tavern brawl packs were also random, because let's face it, core packs at tis time are usually just getting a few dust.


Yes Arena is random - for my cards the one I 'hate' to see the pack for is actually Goblins as unless I pick a Legendary then its just dust - I'm still finding odd core cards filling small gaps - however I agree it would be nice to either have random or allow you to select (its a pack and you pick which deck to draw it from)


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 18:22 
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RuySan wrote:
Didn't noticed there was such big fuss over shredder. Don't see the point really. It's a fun and good, but not overpowered card.

Don't see any reason to nerf it. I never get any kind of desperation from when the opponent drops one, as it's usual when I used to get from a Necropotence or Tolarian Academy from the days when i played magic.


With all due respect I wish people would read what I actually said about the card, namely that it's so good for its mana cost that it's the best 'standard' minion for the 4 mana slot, not that it's overpowered in and of itself, especially so with it being a common. (So everyone can run a couple, and a huge number of decks do.)

I agree with Trump that as a 4/2 with the same mana cost and deathrattle, it'd give other cards a bit of air in the slot.

It's a boring card IMO and that very slight nerf to its base stats would be beneficial to the game.

I don't get a sense of desperation when an opponent drops one either, it's just a card that's all over the fucking place so you learn how to work around it as efficiently as possible, like a low-rent version of Dr Boom.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:54 
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Hearthly wrote:
RuySan wrote:
Didn't noticed there was such big fuss over shredder. Don't see the point really. It's a fun and good, but not overpowered card.

Don't see any reason to nerf it. I never get any kind of desperation from when the opponent drops one, as it's usual when I used to get from a Necropotence or Tolarian Academy from the days when i played magic.


With all due respect I wish people would read what I actually said about the card, namely that it's so good for its mana cost that it's the best 'standard' minion for the 4 mana slot, not that it's overpowered in and of itself, especially so with it being a common. (So everyone can run a couple, and a huge number of decks do.)

I agree with Trump that as a 4/2 with the same mana cost and deathrattle, it'd give other cards a bit of air in the slot.

It's a boring card IMO and that very slight nerf to its base stats would be beneficial to the game.

I don't get a sense of desperation when an opponent drops one either, it's just a card that's all over the fucking place so you learn how to work around it as efficiently as possible, like a low-rent version of Dr Boom.


The fact that the card has become a staple, isn't reason enough for it to be nerfed. It some situations the Yeti might even be better, so it's not a case that the shredder is the only choice for a 4-cost. And i don't get how is the card is boring, since it spawns a random creature and it can generate all kinds of weird situations, like the Doomsayer that has been mentioned here.

It's worrying when some cards can shape the metagame completely, like when Memory Jar was released on MTG and had to be banned within a month or so. The Shredder is just a good card, and there's no reason to start nerfing a card just because it's good.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:14 
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RuySan wrote:
And i don't get how is the card is boring, since it spawns a random creature and it can generate all kinds of weird situations, like the Doomsayer that has been mentioned here.


Another weird situation last night with it - he played on turn 4 , my mage hits it with a frostbolt and it drops Lorewalker Cho

Turns into a completely different game - he did not have a card to nerf or kill it , i left it there and just played minions without casting spells for a few turns until i could take it out the way I wanted to then the next round i spammed spells and secrets :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 13:53 
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Well it's outlier random RNG stuff like that which makes the card even worse IMO, (yes you could argue 'interesting' but in a game with so much RNG in it already I'd argue not), in the main the card represents a seriously good value 4-mana card. You get the solid base stats of 4/3, and most of the time you then get a midrange two drop from the Deathrattle, which is what makes the card as good as it is.

On the fringes it'll chuck out a Milhouse or a Totem Golem, which can be enough to swing a game in your favour.

At the other end it can produce a Doomsayer (can lose you a game outright), something entirely useless like an Ancient Watcher (if you don't have anything to activate/taunt it in any way), or other rubbish, or indeed the 'bizarre' like Lorewalker Cho.

I would suggest that the card is run in so many decks for Scenario 1, where you get your 4/3 and then maybe a 2/3, at which point the card is excellent. Extreme Scenarios 2 and 3 are relatively rare so you don't factor it into the decision to play the card, and 'slightly above average' or 'slightly below average' variants on Scenarios 2 and 3 can be tolerated as well.

I run two Shredders in my midrange Pally deck, I've played around with other cards but nothing works as well as Shredder in that slot. Now I appreciate that there's always going to be one card that you choose it over others for a given slot, and that doesn't automatically mean it needs a nerf, it's the ubiquity of Shredder that makes me feel it's a bit off-balance, and Trump does too, and he's like, one of the best Hearthstone players in the world, so it's not as if I just pulled the opinion out of my arse.

4/3 to a 4/2, leave the Deathrattle the same, feels right to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 17:23 
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Hearthly wrote:
so it's not as if I just pulled the opinion out of my arse.

That's almost certainly what you've done ;) I disagree, and even Trump can be wrong as has often been shown.

Speaking of decent players, I just went 11-3 in Arena. Was *just* robbed of the sweep, very sad, but I'm managing infinite runs at the moment so doing pretty well on average.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 18:24 
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Hearthly wrote:
Well it's outlier random RNG stuff like that which makes the card even worse IMO, (yes you could argue 'interesting' but in a game with so much RNG in it already I'd argue not), in the main the card represents a seriously good value 4-mana card. You get the solid base stats of 4/3, and most of the time you then get a midrange two drop from the Deathrattle, which is what makes the card as good as it is.

On the fringes it'll chuck out a Milhouse or a Totem Golem, which can be enough to swing a game in your favour.

At the other end it can produce a Doomsayer (can lose you a game outright), something entirely useless like an Ancient Watcher (if you don't have anything to activate/taunt it in any way), or other rubbish, or indeed the 'bizarre' like Lorewalker Cho.

I would suggest that the card is run in so many decks for Scenario 1, where you get your 4/3 and then maybe a 2/3, at which point the card is excellent. Extreme Scenarios 2 and 3 are relatively rare so you don't factor it into the decision to play the card, and 'slightly above average' or 'slightly below average' variants on Scenarios 2 and 3 can be tolerated as well.

I run two Shredders in my midrange Pally deck, I've played around with other cards but nothing works as well as Shredder in that slot. Now I appreciate that there's always going to be one card that you choose it over others for a given slot, and that doesn't automatically mean it needs a nerf, it's the ubiquity of Shredder that makes me feel it's a bit off-balance, and Trump does too, and he's like, one of the best Hearthstone players in the world, so it's not as if I just pulled the opinion out of my arse.

4/3 to a 4/2, leave the Deathrattle the same, feels right to me.


I used to play with the boring 4/5 yeti on my handlock deck, even though i never saw anyone playing with it. It's a solid creature that always delivers. My decision to trade them for Shredders is due to the fact that Shredders are way more fun, even if not as always reliable. And there's nothing wrong with having lots of RNG, as good players are the ones that know how play with the odds, like in poker.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 19:47 
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Blizzard have have announced a nerf to Warsong Commander. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/for ... 377?page=5

I can't say that Patron Warrior ever really annoyed me that much but I won't miss playing against it either. :)

In other news when asked about Piloted Shredder Blizzard replied "Whut?"

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 20:09 
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They do seem to have gone a bit over the top with that, and as ever they're rather late to the party as well.

IMO:

1) Patron Warrior isn't seen around so much now.

and

2) It completely kills the deck, rather than making it trickier play and/or making the OTK harder/impossible to pull off.

It's like the nerf to Starving Buzzard, it was more a tactical thermonuclear strike rather than a nerf. Yes the Starving Buzzard > UTH combo needed attention, but they basically destroyed the card.

(Or nerfing Gadgetzan to kill Miracle Rogue, when the Naxx expansion had already done the same job by introducing new cards to the game that really hurt Miracle Rogue.)

Won't affect me in the decks I play since I went back to Control Warrior as my Warrior deck of choice a couple of months ago, and as Nemmie says I won't necessarily mourn Patron Warrior's demise in terms of playing against it (although it was a damn satisfying deck to beat down), but I'm sure they could have found a slightly less DESTROY IT FROM SPACE solution, and not been several months too late in the process as well because it's nowhere near the problem now that it was then IMO.....

As for Shredder, all I've done is voice support for Trump's suggestion in his TGT card preview videos to knock it down to a 4/2, to give a bit more air to the 4-mana slot. I'm totally cool with the idea of a Deathrattle spawning another minion(s) (Harvest Golem, Haunted Creeper), but they are known quantities that both players can consistently work with - Shredder is slightly overpowered for its 'average' stats (so it gets played loads), and also chucks insane RNG into the mix. If some people find that 'fun', then I can't argue with their opinion on the matter :)


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 21:12 
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Nemmie wrote:
Blizzard have have announced a nerf to Warsong Commander. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/for ... 377?page=5


Thats not a Nerf - thats removing the card from the game !

Quote:
The following balance change will be made in an upcoming patch:

Warsong Commander now reads: Your Charge minions have +1 Attack.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 21:14 
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Hearthly wrote:
If some people find that 'fun', then I can't argue with their opinion on the matter :)


It seems you are a decent person to argue with


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 21:23 
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zaphod79 wrote:
Nemmie wrote:
Blizzard have have announced a nerf to Warsong Commander. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/for ... 377?page=5


Thats not a Nerf - thats removing the card from the game !

Quote:
The following balance change will be made in an upcoming patch:

Warsong Commander now reads: Your Charge minions have +1 Attack.


That's a big old change, though they do say it is to allow for more growth or some such spiel, so maybe it will be more useful with additional cards coming out later. For now it's a killer though.

Allowing it to grant charge to a 24 attack Bezerker was daft though. it should have had an upper limit. If they'd made the 3 attack a hard limit and had you lose charge when going above it, that could have been interesting. patron still keep charge, but it loses half the use case as the Bezerker no longer does (and was, IMO, the more useful charge).

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 21:40 
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The thing with Patron Warrior is that it is beatable, and whilst part of the adage 'Kill them before Turn 8/9' had a ring of truth to it, it is possible to fatigue the fuckers out or just remove all their threats. Ultimately you had four major threats to deal with, the two Patrons and the two Frothings, and once they were gone, the deck had very little left.

That said, it was incredibly frustrating to have 'won' the game as a class that couldn't heal/armour up out of range, knowing that there was an insane Frothing combo still in hand that would OTK you.

Patron kept most of the 'control' stuff from Control Warrior, which could make it so hard to get on top of them in the timeframe and/or manner required.

I think they could have done the nerf more elegantly though, but then again they do say that they like to keep the card text as simple as possible, so for Frothing for example having 'Gain one attack when a friendly minion takes damage' or suchlike (so you can't use the enemy's board to buff them) would probably fall foul of their complexity requirements.

I won't miss the deck TBH, but at the same time I think it's a bit of a shame they've destroyed it completely.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:21 
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Hearthly wrote:
1) Patron Warrior isn't seen around so much now.

Do you even card bro?

Tempo's meta snapshot: https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta ... -the-block

Patron still #1 after a brief dalliance with secret pally when TGT came out. Try getting down to the lower ranks and you'll see very little else.

Hearthly wrote:
I'm totally cool with the idea of a Deathrattle spawning another minion(s) (Harvest Golem, Haunted Creeper)

Harvest Golem is a 3-drop, so nope ;)

There are plenty of viable decks, and anything can lose. Patrol was too strong because you only needed to survive long enough to draw the major combo pieces, get one tick of Thaurisan, and then you won. Most of the early 'threats' are things are are card draw mechanics so by focussing on them you just speed the Warrior to their OTK. It's very hard to rush it down. Not impossible, but Blizzard have said before that OTK from the hand is definitely not what they want. It's also why Leeroy was nerfed because apart from Miracle Rogue there were stupid combos available in Warlock with Leeroy + power o + power o + Faceless manipulator for 28 damage, and then perhaps a 0-mana soulfire to finish off. Not fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:22 
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Hearthly wrote:
Ultimately you had four major threats to deal with, the two Patrons and the two Frothings, and once they were gone, the deck had very little left.

If you're playing a proper patron warrior, they don't drop those cards in isolation unless they're desperate, or they're just not playing the deck right.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:06 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
1) Patron Warrior isn't seen around so much now.

Do you even card bro?

Tempo's meta snapshot: https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta ... -the-block

Patron still #1 after a brief dalliance with secret pally when TGT came out. Try getting down to the lower ranks and you'll see very little else.


Trump spent a long time at Ranks 3-5 at the end of last season (I watched every single F2P video, of his entire climb and then the last few days when he hovered around 3-5). Patron was certainly represented but not to any overwhelming degree, and he did manage to beat it a few times with his F2P Priest deck.

If anything there was a lot of Handlock around, which I guess is because it's such a good counter to Patron.

Quote:
There are plenty of viable decks, and anything can lose. Patrol was too strong because you only needed to survive long enough to draw the major combo pieces, get one tick of Thaurisan, and then you won. Most of the early 'threats' are things are are card draw mechanics so by focussing on them you just speed the Warrior to their OTK. It's very hard to rush it down. Not impossible, but Blizzard have said before that OTK from the hand is definitely not what they want.


Certainly Patron was OP and it needed attention, but I'm not convinced the answer was destroying the entire deck and the concept of it.

Why not just limit charge minions' potential attack, or Frothings only gain attack from allied minions' damage, or something like that?

I dunno, I just feel like there must have been a different option.

Quote:
If you're playing a proper patron warrior, they don't drop those cards in isolation unless they're desperate, or they're just not playing the deck right.


I didn't say the cards were being dropped in isolation, I said that they're the damage-dealers in the deck which are at least known quantities and you know what you have to deal with.

It's a tough deck to play against for sure, and it needed some attention, but I think it's a shame they decided to destroy it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:13 
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As all Blizzard nerfs, it's fucking ridiculous. A 3 mana 2/3 that's strictly worse than a Raid Leader. That's a Basic Neutral card, and shit, and never sees play ever ever.

Warsong is a rare class card with an aura that only affects certain minions to no discernable use or advantage. Even at 2 mana it's shit. At 1 mana it would be arguably good as a 2/3 with an advantage so niche that it still probably wouldn't see play.

I'm with them on eliminating OTK from the hand, but they take it too far. You might as well remove the card from the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:30 
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Someone just killed my Piloted Sky Golem, and a Shredder came out of it. It's essentially a kinder egg inside a kinder egg.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:40 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
As all Blizzard nerfs, it's fucking ridiculous. A 3 mana 2/3 that's strictly worse than a Raid Leader. That's a Basic Neutral card, and shit, and never sees play ever ever.

Warsong is a rare class card with an aura that only affects certain minions to no discernable use or advantage. Even at 2 mana it's shit. At 1 mana it would be arguably good as a 2/3 with an advantage so niche that it still probably wouldn't see play.

I'm with them on eliminating OTK from the hand, but they take it too far. You might as well remove the card from the game.


I'm pretty sure a 2/3 for 1 mana would see a lot of play!

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:39 
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Yeah, like Zombie chow, which has a 'downside' that's almost irrelevant if played early because tempo is far more important than life total. In priest it's even better for potential combo with Auchenai. Is it OP? Nah, is it play a lot? Not a lot... a bit.

The 1 mana Warsong version might see play in face hunter, if it was a hunter card, but it's not. Warrior decks see no charge minions played early in a rush-down style and this card won't create that deck. Korkron Elite was historically the must usable Warrior class charge card and I haven't seen one played in about a billion years.

So yeah, a 1 mana 2/3 that buffs charge minions might get a *bit* of play, it would help Arena Warrior, and give Warriors a 1-drop that wasn't complete and utter shit shit shit. Warbot, I'm looking at you.

That's the point though. Decrease the card cost by one mana and it's still unplayable, reduce it by TWO and it's then possibly OK but still debatable. If you've nerfed a card to that degree you really need to reconsider what the fuck you're doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:54 
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Thinking about it, this is a pretty obvious attempt to simply remove Patron Warrior from the game ahead of the Hearthstone World Championship at Blizzcon next month.

If they go down the nerf-don't-destroy route, and in any way leave the deck viable, you're probably just going to have all the best players bringing Revised Patron Warrior to Blizzcon, along with decks that counter it - and that wouldn't be too much fun.

This is basically Blizzard saying, 'Patron Warrior is gone, forget about it, play something else.'


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 13:11 
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Yeah Patron being an auto-deck for pretty much every championship player would have been tedious as hell.

Casters also lose their shit when somebody plays something novel, because every cunt there is just netdecking the same few variants of everything. The skill level is so high that matches are basically RNG and people accuse Heartstone of basically being shit as a result.

I saw a tournament recently where some dude brought a Stalag/Feugen deck and the casters couldn't talk about anything else. SUCH INNOVATION.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 15:07 
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Maybe they just wanted Patron Warrior out of the game because it's boring to watch, boring/annoying to play against, and whilst it is certainly one of the more difficult decks to play it's not monumentally onerous to get competent with. (I switched from Patron Warrior back to Control Warrior as Patron ultimately just felt a bit too unfair and tedious to play, I'm not saying I was 'great' with the deck but I'd say I was reasonable with it.)

I guess the prospect of Patron Warrior facing off against Patron Warrior time and time again, (what a great interactive match-up that would be!), with the couple of decks that can counter it, time and time again, made them think the Hearthstone World Championships could end up rather..... dull.

So rather than take the risk, they just decided to go Aliens on its ass

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 15:56 
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That's not the quote.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 16:14 
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Grim... wrote:
That's not the quote.


"Take off and nuke the entire site from orbit"


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 16:18 
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I know, it'll do though.

It was the first one I grabbed off Google Images.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 16:29 
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zaphod79 wrote:
Grim... wrote:
That's not the quote.


"Take off and nuke the entire site from orbit"

Closer!

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 16:57 
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Grim... wrote:
zaphod79 wrote:
Grim... wrote:
That's not the quote.


"Take off and nuke the entire site from orbit"

Closer!


I'd have preferred "I say we grease this rat-f*ck son of a bitch right now" - and that would have fitted with what they have done to the Warsong Commander

I also think they should have a tavern brawl where any minion played with 3 or less attack gains charge and they could call it Warsongs Swansong


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 17:03 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Yeah, like Zombie chow, which has a 'downside' that's almost irrelevant if played early because tempo is far more important than life total. In priest it's even better for potential combo with Auchenai. Is it OP? Nah, is it play a lot? Not a lot... a bit.

The 1 mana Warsong version might see play in face hunter, if it was a hunter card, but it's not. Warrior decks see no charge minions played early in a rush-down style and this card won't create that deck. Korkron Elite was historically the must usable Warrior class charge card and I haven't seen one played in about a billion years.

So yeah, a 1 mana 2/3 that buffs charge minions might get a *bit* of play, it would help Arena Warrior, and give Warriors a 1-drop that wasn't complete and utter shit shit shit. Warbot, I'm looking at you.

That's the point though. Decrease the card cost by one mana and it's still unplayable, reduce it by TWO and it's then possibly OK but still debatable. If you've nerfed a card to that degree you really need to reconsider what the fuck you're doing.


I can't think of a better minion for 1 mana than a 2/3 that buffs charges. Admittedly it doesn't sync very well with classic Warrior decks, but it could certainly see some new ones created. If it was a neutral card it'd be in every deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 17:13 
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If I'm being super-pedantic, I'm pretty sure that still is taken while Ripely is saying "You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamned percentage."

Fucking astoundingly I don't have Aliens on my media centre, so I can't check.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 18:14 
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It's nice to meet a fellow Aliens super-geek.

One of me and the Battlefield regulars can go an entire round of the game and talk to each other (with relevant phrases) using nothing but Aliens quotations.


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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 18:32 
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I watch the film when I have nothing better to do, or when I'm in bed sometimes.

[edit] I watch it in my head, I mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearthstone thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 18:40 
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I recall it being on Sky Movies back when Sky was a new thing (1989 or so? The original satellite one).

They tended to play the same films quite a lot. Every time Aliens was on I'd watch it.

It's a film I can quite comfortably sit through again and again and again, even today, and even though I know every line of dialogue and every facial expression in the entire thing.

I can't play it through in my head though, WEIRDO.


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