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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 17:54 
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Zardoz wrote:
WTF is Scorpio?

Next year's Xbox One mk 2. It's much more powerful, whereas PS4 Pro is a bit more powerful.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 17:56 
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Quality of hardware is almost entirely irrelevant though once you've lost the "so what do your mates have" game.

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 17:58 
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Cras wrote:
Quality of hardware is almost entirely irrelevant though once you've lost the "so what do your mates have" game.


:this: The friends I play online with all have an Xbox One... and spend as much time as I do moaning about them.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 18:01 
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Yeah 'killer app' counts for a lot in the console game.

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 18:23 
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Bad Girl

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
WTF is Scorpio?

Next year's Xbox One mk 2. It's much more powerful, whereas PS4 Pro is a bit more powerful.


You'll probably know more than me, but isn't it correct that, whereas MS initially said it was going to be a true 4K machine, the most recent information from MS has shown that they are going to be utilising a chequerboard technique (MS call it something else, I forget what that is) similar to PS4 Pro to achieve a 4K resolution which may indicate it won't be as powerful as initially thought?


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 21:56 
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Isn't true 4k gaming a bit of a pipe dream at the moment even in the PC space? Which would put it well beyond even the Scorpio.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 22:06 
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Bamba wrote:
Isn't true 4k gaming a bit of a pipe dream at the moment even in the PC space? Which would put it well beyond even the Scorpio.


4k gaming can be done on plenty of PC GPUs released in the last year or two - if you're willing to play at 30fps, which a fair amount of PC Gamers aren't. On console, which targets 30, it should be possible for a fair amount of games with how powerful the Scorpio will be.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 22:09 
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Cookie197 wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Isn't true 4k gaming a bit of a pipe dream at the moment even in the PC space? Which would put it well beyond even the Scorpio.


4k gaming can be done on plenty of PC GPUs released in the last year or two - if you're willing to play at 30fps, which a fair amount of PC Gamers aren't. On console, which targets 30, it should be possible for a fair amount of games with how powerful the Scorpio will be.


Fair enough, I hadn't really paid much attention recently because it's not something I have a need for (what with only having 1080p displays around the place).


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 22:20 
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Let's be fair, we don't know how powerful Scorpio will or won't be: there isn't much detail in the specs released.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:27 
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Satsuma wrote:
Let's be fair, we don't know how powerful Scorpio will or won't be: there isn't much detail in the specs released.


I read that it will have an 8 Core CPU from a yet to be announced manufacturer. Also will contain a graphics card with 6 Teraflops of processing power , a 1080 has around 8.9 Teraflops.

By comparison the current Xbox One has 1.32 and the PS4 1.84

So a lot better on the graphics side than current consoles but 50% less that current best PC gaming cards.

I got Xbox One on the release day, its used mostly for Skype, Plex, Amazon Video and right now Youtube for my son to watch Mr Men shows :)

I like it and I have 59 games on the storage from Gold, but never play console games, in the day my son will just go nuts and demand Youtube and at night we are watching TV.

Whilst I'm not as current on gaming as a lot of people here, my gut and limited info tells me that if I wanted a good gaming console then the PS4 would be the way to go.

Will problay get one of those as some point as I like to collect, but first its Wii-U :p


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 15:08 
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The specs for the Scorpio have been revealed and now I know what it's like to own a PC that I thought was cutting edge.

Apparently it offers true 4K gaming, 6 teraflops of power, 326 GB/'s of memory bandwidth and 8 CPU cores.

All this and more (no, not really more as there's no games you'd want to play on it) will be available "Holiday 2017". I'm taking my holiday on the 24th May so get your pre-orders in for then!


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 15:09 
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SavyGamer

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BOOOOOORRRRRRRING.

Is it powerful enough to play Scalebound?


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 15:11 
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12GB of GDDR5 too. Wonder if they've gone the Sony route of having that the only RAM in the system?
Octocore processor is kinda.. meh. For the price point of consoles I'd assume that means still an older AMD CPU.. which is pretty weird to pair with such a powerful GPU.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 15:12 
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LewieP wrote:
BOOOOOORRRRRRRING.

Is it powerful enough to play Scalebound?


Probably but the chances of it being released on the Xbox One are very slim. Never mind. Console yourself in a plethora of indie type games that you've never heard of or have no intention of playing because there seems to be loads of them released every week.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 15:16 
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Bad Girl

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IM ASSUMING (edit) this is the Digital Foundry video? I'm going to wait for Hearty to tell me if this is any good or not.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 15:19 
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Cookie197 wrote:
12GB of GDDR5 too. Wonder if they've gone the Sony route of having that the only RAM in the system?
Octocore processor is kinda.. meh. For the price point of consoles I'd assume that means still an older AMD CPU.. which is pretty weird to pair with such a powerful GPU.

Yeah the esram is gone.

4gb is reserved for the system, so 8gb for games. Presumably in part because they're now supporting (mandating) 4k game recording/streaming.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 19:11 
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I think it looks pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 20:44 
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Hit it very hard

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The specs are definitely tasty but the CPU hasn't scaled up anywhere near as much as the GPU has, although there is much talk of super-fancy custom hardware shenanigans going on to offset that. (They're talking about 'custom x86' architecture for the CPU but as best I can tell they're still basically the weak Jaguar cores albeit 'evolved' or something.)

My fear is it'll be hamstrung by all games having to run on the base XBox One hardware as well (same as happened with PS4/PS4 Pro I believe?), so what we're actually going to end up with is games that are 900/1080p@30FPS on XBox One are going to be rendered at 4K on Scorpio but also at 30FPS. (Except where the game is rendered at 60FPS on XBox One as well, so Forza and suchlike.)

If they'd just say 'everything is 1080p@60FPS on Scorpio' I'd be all over it like a cheap suit.

Also disappointing to see a traditional hard drive in there, SSDs are effectively mainstream now, so a spinning disk in there will slow loading down.

It's very much a 'wait and see' as far as I'm concerned, nothing thusfar in the XB1/PS4 era has had me jump in and buy either console. (This being the first console generation ever that I've not owned a current console out of, unless you count the Wii-U.)

Plus of course it all comes down to the games, if it's just stuff I can get on PC (which is already my primary gaming platform) then there's no reason to get a console to play those same games. (Which is why I got the Wii-U, because Nintendo games.)

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 21:10 
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I don't understand clockspeeds and overclocking. Can someone ELI5?


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 22:50 
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Didn't they say the original Bone would take advantage of the cloud? I basically don't believe a word they say.

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 22:59 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Didn't they say the original Bone would take advantage of the cloud? I basically don't believe a word they say.


It kind of does in the fact that all your saves and video clips are on there... but yeah... I know.

Apparently Crackdown 3 will make full use of it to feature a massive, fully destructible world. The likes of which we've never seen before. :insincere:


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:11 
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Putting an SSD in it would drive the price up like crazy, and they can just sell a separate SSD to anyone who is happy to pay through the nose for an SSD. They are getting cheaper, but you couldn't really get away with a 128gb drive, and 256gb+ drives are still too expensive to include by default.

TheVision wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Didn't they say the original Bone would take advantage of the cloud? I basically don't believe a word they say.


It kind of does in the fact that all your saves and video clips are on there... but yeah... I know.

Apparently Crackdown 3 will make full use of it to feature a massive, fully destructible world. The likes of which we've never seen before. :insincere:

Crackdown 3 is more likely to be cancelled than to convince anyone of the practical implementations of the cloud for offsetting realtime processing.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:05 
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Hearthly wrote:
If they'd just say 'everything is 1080p@60FPS on Scorpio' I'd be all over it like a cheap suit.


It'd look great on your 720p telly :p

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:43 
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Sir Taxalot wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
If they'd just say 'everything is 1080p@60FPS on Scorpio' I'd be all over it like a cheap suit.


It'd look great on your 720p telly :p


Well it'd be a splendid driver for me to get a 4K telly :) I originally bought the 40 inch 720p telly specifically for my XBox 360 (prior to that I'd been perfectly happy with a very nice widescreen Sony Trinitron).

Obviously I'll replace my trusty old 720p telly when I've got a motivation to do so, but it's fine for films/Netflix/iPlayer/etc and the only gaming I do on there is XBox 360/Wii-U/XBox, none of which need more than 720p.

LewieP wrote:
Putting an SSD in it would drive the price up like crazy, and they can just sell a separate SSD to anyone who is happy to pay through the nose for an SSD. They are getting cheaper, but you couldn't really get away with a 128gb drive, and 256gb+ drives are still too expensive to include by default.


Admittedly prices have gone up recently thanks to the Brexit pound effect, but 256GB SSDs can be had for about £70 to the end consumer, so obviously MS can get them a lot cheaper than that.

A 256GB SSD alongside a 1TB hard drive would be a good combo I think, and the system could intelligently cache the most used games to the SSD, and archive off less/unplayed games to the hard drive.

I find hard drive loading times excruciatingly painful these days, and it's not just games either, but system loading times, patching/update duration etc - all of which are massively, massively faster on SSD based systems.

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:51 
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But what's the advantage of forcing people to buy an SSD rather than supporting it as an option?

Are you suggesting it should have two hard drive bays?


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:06 
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My Xbox one has a hybrid drive. I can't tell you if it makes a difference as I have nothing to compare it to.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:28 
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Satsuma wrote:
I don't understand clockspeeds and overclocking. Can someone ELI5?


Clockspeed: number of 'cycles' a second; basically the speed of something. So when someone talks about a processor running at 3.5Ghz that's the clockspeed and is basically the number of instructions it can process in a second (3.5 billion in that example). Way back in the day, raw clockspeed was the only measure of performance of a CPU. But then they started developing multi-core chips so there's more to it all now, though a higher clockspeed is obviously better.
Overclocking: inducing a bit of hardware (so CPU or GPU or apparently even RAM and monitors) to run faster than it's default clockspeed. In real terms these things are limited to a given clockspeed because that's the speed the manufacturer is happy it can run without overheating and frying. If you can keep the temperature down with improved cooling solutions though, and you're willing to take the risk, you can push stuff over the default to get better performance.


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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:43 
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LewieP wrote:
But what's the advantage of forcing people to buy an SSD rather than supporting it as an option?

Are you suggesting it should have two hard drive bays?


Well the console is a custom design to Microsoft's specification so I'm sure they could accommodate a 2.5 inch SSD in there if they wanted to, or indeed a motherboard mounted M2 style SSD.

When game installs are coming in at 50GB+ and you've got gigabytes of RAM to fill, a traditional spinning hard drive is a large impediment to things happening swiftly and snappily. (And that's before you get started on all the updates/patching that the console wants to do to itself as well, game updates and patching etc, although I appreciate it can do this sort of thing overnight.)

To me it just seems like a strange combo, on the one hand you've got ZOMG NATIVE 4K@60FPS, and it's been paired with 'Woohoo ancient hard drive technology hope you like loading screens'.

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:26 
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Surely it's because games are so big that we still need traditional HDDs? I'm not sure 1-2TB SSDs are the cheapest, and it's what you need for a modern console.

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 Post subject: Re: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:38 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Surely it's because games are so big that we still need traditional HDDs? I'm not sure 1-2TB SSDs are the cheapest, and it's what you need for a modern console.


I covered this above, use a 256GB SSD as a 'cache' for the most played games on the system, backed with a 1TB hard drive to archive less played games off to.

Obviously the owner would be able to override the automation of this if they wanted a game or games locked to one storage device or another, but there's no reason the console couldn't manage it with a bit of logic.

I'm not pretending it wouldn't add some cost to the system, but given that I can buy a 256GB SSD off Amazon for £70, MS should be able to source them for what, £30 or £40? (<<<< Total guesstimate there, actual numbers would be interesting.)

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