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Plastic guns for all!
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Author:  Trooper [ Thu May 09, 2013 10:57 ]
Post subject:  Plastic guns for all!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22421185

What do we think about this then? The possibility of buying a 3D printer and printing out your own gun.
That's a bad thing, right? Isn't it?

I don't think we should be banning 3D printers because of it, but once pandora's box has been opened, why wouldn't everyone who had one print a gun? Even if they made that illegal. Would you? I know I probably would...

Author:  markg [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Not sure how significant this is really. The ability to cobble together a shitty gun that will fire a single shot doesn't really require a 3D printer.

Author:  TheVision [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

What they need to do is make it illegal to produce and sell bullets to the public. That would sort it.

Author:  Trooper [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

markg wrote:
Not sure how significant this is really. The ability to cobble together a shitty gun that will fire a single shot doesn't really require a 3D printer.


True, but that takes effort. If I have a 3D printer and you tell me all I have to do is click a button and get a gun at the end of it, I'll click that button.

Plus, this is the first, there will be more, each more sophisticated than the last. I wouldn't bet against a semi-automatic 3D printed gun in the future at the least.

Author:  markg [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

I dunno man, proper guns needs loads of metal bits really. Even this one needs a metal barrel and firing pin. I don't think that anytime soon it will be just as easy as printing a picture of a gun.

Author:  MaliA [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Might need some seriously strong plastics to cope with shooting a bullet. or lots of bullets.

Author:  GazChap [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

markg wrote:
I dunno man, proper guns needs loads of metal bits really. Even this one needs a metal barrel and firing pin. I don't think that anytime soon it will be just as easy as printing a picture of a gun.

Only the firing pin is metal in this one, isn't it?

The story brings to mind "In The Line of Fire" with Clint Eastwood and John Malkovich.

Author:  Trooper [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

GazChap wrote:
markg wrote:
I dunno man, proper guns needs loads of metal bits really. Even this one needs a metal barrel and firing pin. I don't think that anytime soon it will be just as easy as printing a picture of a gun.

Only the firing pin is metal in this one, isn't it?


Aye, everything else is 3D printed in plastic.

Author:  markg [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

Author:  DBSnappa [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

The more pertinent question is how much you value your hands? I wouldn't want to fire a gun I'd printed.

Author:  Squirt [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds. I wonder what the accuracy on a short-barrelled, smooth-bore, relatively low tolerance home made gun is.

Author:  MaliA [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Squirt wrote:
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds. I wonder what the accuracy on a short-barrelled, smooth-bore, relatively low tolerance home made gun is.


Paging kern. I'd say 30 feet, based on the paintball guns I have used.

Author:  Trooper [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Squirt wrote:
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds. I wonder what the accuracy on a short-barrelled, smooth-bore, relatively low tolerance home made gun is.


Buy me a 3D printer and i'll tell you.

Author:  markg [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Squirt wrote:
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds.

That and so you can use differnt size bullets I think.

Author:  Kern [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

MaliA wrote:
Squirt wrote:
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds. I wonder what the accuracy on a short-barrelled, smooth-bore, relatively low tolerance home made gun is.


Paging kern. I'd say 30 feet, based on the paintball guns I have used.


'Not very far' I'd guess, assuming the ball leaves from the intended hole in the intended direction. When you think that the 1842 Springfield musket - the last Springfield smoothbore - has a range of 100-300 feet, and probably only effective at 50-100 feet, I doubt there would be much difference. Firing .69, of course, so calibre would have to be factored in.

As for legalities, given the nature of the laws over here, does anyone know when some piping and a sparking device would become a 'shotgun' and thus covered by the various Firearms Acts?

Author:  Grim... [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Kern wrote:
As for legalities, given the nature of the laws over here, does anyone know when some piping and a sparking device would become a 'shotgun' and thus covered by the various Firearms Acts?

Pretty much instantly, I think. The definitions are loose enough to cover nearly everything - it basically needs to shoot things and not be rifled.

Author:  MaliA [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

DBSnappa wrote:
The more pertinent question is how much you value your hands? I wouldn't want to fire a gun I'd printed.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... -guns-user

Author:  GazChap [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Grim... wrote:
Kern wrote:
As for legalities, given the nature of the laws over here, does anyone know when some piping and a sparking device would become a 'shotgun' and thus covered by the various Firearms Acts?

Pretty much instantly, I think. The definitions are loose enough to cover nearly everything - it basically needs to shoot things and not be rifled.

:this:

Author:  Kern [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Sounds about right.
So anyone 'printing' a gun just for the hell of it would be instantly breaking the law over here.

Author:  Kern [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

MaliA wrote:
DBSnappa wrote:
The more pertinent question is how much you value your hands? I wouldn't want to fire a gun I'd printed.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... -guns-user


That's why we have a proof house!

Author:  MaliA [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
DBSnappa wrote:
The more pertinent question is how much you value your hands? I wouldn't want to fire a gun I'd printed.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... -guns-user


That's why we have a proof house!


Learn something new every day.

Author:  GazChap [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Kern wrote:
Sounds about right.
So anyone 'printing' a gun just for the hell of it would be instantly breaking the law over here.

Pretty sure they'd be breaking the law over in the US as well, although maybe the laws regarding manufacturing firearms over there are more concerned with fully automatic firearms. I can never remember.

The guy in the article apparently got a licence from the ATF though, so I imagine it would have been illegal otherwise.

Author:  Trooper [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

GazChap wrote:
Kern wrote:
Sounds about right.
So anyone 'printing' a gun just for the hell of it would be instantly breaking the law over here.

Pretty sure they'd be breaking the law over in the US as well, although maybe the laws regarding manufacturing firearms over there are more concerned with fully automatic firearms. I can never remember.

The guy in the article apparently got a licence from the ATF though, so I imagine it would have been illegal otherwise.


As I understand it, it isn't illegal in the US to make one. He needed the licence so he could sell and distribute.

Author:  NervousPete [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

I think I'll skip the gun and move straight on to the 3D plastic Burt-Tank for my home defence.

Author:  Four_Candles [ Thu May 09, 2013 14:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Let's cut through the media guff and read something sensible on the matter:

http://hackaday.com/2013/05/06/the-firs ... dont-care/

Author:  Trooper [ Thu May 09, 2013 14:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Four_Candles wrote:
Let's cut through the media guff and read something sensible on the matter:

http://hackaday.com/2013/05/06/the-firs ... dont-care/


From a US perspective that is. His argument basically "if you want a hand gun it is cheaper and easier to go and buy one rather than print it", which is true for the US, but not for other countries.

Author:  zaphod79 [ Fri May 10, 2013 11:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

And now the US government have tried to have them taken down - cause thats how the internet works :-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22478310

Quote:
US government orders removal of Defcad 3D-gun designs

The US government has demanded designs for a 3D-printed gun be taken offline.

The order to remove the blueprints for the plastic gun comes after they were downloaded more than 100,000 times.

The US State Department wrote to the gun's designer, Defense Distributed, suggesting publishing them online may breach arms-control regulations.

Although the files have been removed from the company's Defcad site, it is not clear whether this will stop people accessing the blueprints.

They were being hosted by the Mega online service and may still reside on its servers.

Also, many links to copies of the blueprints have been uploaded to file-sharing site the Pirate Bay, making them widely available. The Pirate Bay has also publicised its links to the files via social news site Reddit suggesting many more people will get hold of the blueprints.

The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wrote to Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson demanding the designs be "removed from public access" until he could prove he had not broken laws governing shipping weapons overseas by putting the files online and letting people outside the US download them.
Explosive force

"We have to comply," Mr Wilson told news magazine Forbes in an interview.

But he added the State Department's fears were ungrounded, as Defense Distributed had been set up specifically to meet requirements that exempted it from the arms-control regulations.

He welcomed the US government's intervention, saying it would highlight the issue of whether it was possible to stop the spread of 3D-printed weapons.

Unlike conventional weapons, the printed gun - called the Liberator by its creators - is made out of plastic on a printer. Many engineering firms and manufacturers use these machines to test prototypes before starting large-scale production.

While desktop 3D printers are becoming more popular, Defense Distributed used an industrial 3D printer that cost more than £5,000 to produce its gun. This was able to use high-density plastic that could withstand and channel the explosive force involved in firing a bullet.

To make the Liberator, Mr Wilson had to get a licence to make and sell the weapon from the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The Bureau told the BBC that any American could make a gun for their own use, even on a 3D printer, but selling it required a licence.

Mr Wilson, who describes himself as a crypto-anarchist, said the project to create a printed gun and make it widely available was all "about liberty".

Author:  lasermink [ Fri May 10, 2013 11:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

zaphod79 wrote:
US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Best workplace ever.

Author:  Bamba [ Fri May 10, 2013 11:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Quote:
The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wrote to Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson demanding the designs be "removed from public access" until he could prove he had not broken laws


8) Isn't it supposed to work the other way round?

Author:  lasermink [ Fri May 10, 2013 11:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Bamba wrote:
Quote:
The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wrote to Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson demanding the designs be "removed from public access" until he could prove he had not broken laws


8) Isn't it supposed to work the other way round?

I thought :this: too.

Author:  Mr Dave [ Fri May 10, 2013 17:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Bamba wrote:
Quote:
The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wrote to Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson demanding the designs be "removed from public access" until he could prove he had not broken laws


8) Isn't it supposed to work the other way round?

In a criminal trial, yes.

This isn't a criminal trial.

Author:  Four_Candles [ Fri May 10, 2013 23:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Plastic guns for all!

Trooper wrote:
Four_Candles wrote:
Let's cut through the media guff and read something sensible on the matter:

http://hackaday.com/2013/05/06/the-firs ... dont-care/


From a US perspective that is. His argument basically "if you want a hand gun it is cheaper and easier to go and buy one rather than print it", which is true for the US, but not for other countries.


And then there's this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/10 ... ic_3d_gun/

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