Be Excellent To Each Other

Right. So yet again, how come teachers always used to be able to get in, in the 1960s, 1970s and even early 1980s, when typically our winters were much harsher than they are now, when levels of personal mobility were much lower (and of the cars that were available, these were often RWD and laughably crap in the snow), and yet they can't now, apparently?

998 bananas my son.

Man, I missed you Chinny.

Can you even imagine what our great forebears, the people who built this country, would actually make of the current working generation if they could be transported in time - most especially teachers then, as compared to now? LULZ. They'd think we'd fallen into a collective madness, as well as considering us the biggest bunch of utter wusses imaginable. They'd box our ears for us and tell us to 'bloody well get on with it', I reckon.

In other news, I was able to wheel out some convincers for the whole "Move to Otley" argument on Saturday and MrsA did come away feeling a bit happier with that idea. I also got a bit confused though and thought that my friend's sister number two was actually sister number one and what fun we had when we went clubbing in Sheffield that time in 1998 (she would have been ten, then, which would have given it away) but she chose me some bed linen in 2005 or something.

I know you are trying hard but there's no need to blend in with the locals to that extent.

The estate I live on, the Council do not venture on, even though it is a bus route.

Hence my confusion. Was v. strange until it clicked I was talking to a compeltely different person.

How many of you got to school during the Winter of 1990/91?

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_1990–1991_in_Western_Europe[/url]

[edit: why is the URL tag not working?]

Most we got was a half day due to a blizzard and being over 4 miles from town it was thought we should be sent home before it got dark. I remember walking out onto the sports fields, getting halfway across and only being able to make out the faintest shadows of the buildings.

Business as usual the next morning. Only concession to the snow was no sport + they could only keep part of the drive open.

The current system is a hodgepodge of 15 years of software development and 3 different systems, with customer records spanning all three. The haven't finished the transition from system 1 to system 2 yet, and that was finished 10 years ago, let alone moving everyone on to system 3. A history of large integrators, lots of big contracts, years wasted writing documents about "process" etc... The same old story, but compounded on 3 times over. There are so many lost and stuck records it is unreal.

To be honest, the fact it works at all for the majority of people is testament to the staff on the ground dealing with the daily shit.

That doesn't excuse how crap it is, but it isn't an easy problem to fix.

Was fine in kernow

I remember walking to school that year. The snow was waist height in places.

It. Was. Awesome.

Edit: 90-91.

Give me a break, I can't even remember what I had for lunch...

Bloody hell man, it's a miracle you even lived to tell the tale! If you hear a knock on your door, it's probably Curio coming to give you CPR.

So we have gone from the teachers being lazy and work shy to the councils are shit for not clearing routes?

To DavPaz is awesome and never needed strings on his mittens.

To be honest I wouldn't say the councils are any worse at clearing the roads than in 1990. Do remember being driven to school rather than being forced to take the coach.

At the time I cursed how our school was always able to work its way around these problems. Even if we had day long power cuts, the most they would do would be to send you home early (even our lot would draw the line at dark classrooms). And somehow lunch would always seem to improve!

Like you say, funnily enough I can't remember the Council in the 1970s being a model of efficiency, including in terms of gritting/clearing roads. (By the late 70s, the rot was well and truly setting in; you couldn't get the Council to do *anything*). And yet, the prospect of school actually being *cancelled* was an impossible nirvana for us kids. No chance!

I don't like school closures as much as the next man. Ditto nursery closures, as today the wife travelled in to work, got told nursery was closed and had to travel all the way home to look after the daughter. There's a chance that tomorrow I will have to take a day of my very-scarce annual leave to look after said child. This makes me extremely annoyed, especially as the transport links around the nursery are mostly fine.

Where I differ is that I wouldn't blame the closure of the nursery on the carers in general. Ditto for schools, when it closes I severely doubt they actually canvassed the opinion of a junior maths teacher or the chemistry lab assistants when deciding to make the call. So I find it wholly unfair to demonise teachers as a whole based on a decision taken by someone else.



Teachers routinely work far longer hours than the vast majority of the private sector. Most people I know work something resembling a 9-5, or if they work the long hour it is either because they earn big salaries or it's for a temporary project.

Teachers have a stressful job (over twice the national average in work-related stress illnesses), and get paid very poorly (27k average... I considered becoming a teacher a while ago, but realised I could earn more as an extremely junior layabout in an office than I could as a senior teacher) for what is arguably one of the most important jobs in the country.

My Mum used to teach, and she would spend several hours every day doing marking and lesson planning. Most people leave their work at the door, but teachers can't do that.

Plus their pensions are no longer as good, will doubtless be cut further to ribbons in coming budgets, and their pay deals are terrible.

I'd estimate the 90 hour week thing you mentioned earlier would indeed be very hard work, but also probably accounts for less than 0.1% of employed people.




Unprecedented investment? Maybe therein lies the problem. We have under invested and invested poorly.

Which ONS data sets are we talking about, BTW? Obviously the amount of kids passing exams is rising, so what is the comparison being made?



I like you too.

I just think it was a gross exaggeration, insulting to thousands of hard working and talented people who could be earning far more if they were bankers or even secretaries, but who decided to do a genuinely helpful and necessary job.

We had a junior school attached but they were in Portakabins. The sight of the little bastards being sent home early yet again because each cabin only had 1 electric heater was enough to enrage.

Teachers are not paid poorly at all. In London it may seem that way, but it does not take that long to rise up into SMT.

As someone who is self employed during the worst recession since the 1930's, I'm laughing myself silly at all this.

Pension? Leaving work at the door at 5pm? Guaranteed average 27k? 9-5? Paid holiday?

Perhaps they might like to be working until 2am and then rock up at the small claims court the next day to chase someone who has just shafted you for 3k?* Dealing with clients who suddenly want their work done yesterday while also dealing with chasing payments for work you did 3 months ago.

How about waking up in the middle of the night worrying that a major customer might be about to go bust or that you can't possibly meet the deadlines or how you will pay the tax bill?#

The idea that teaching is magically a more stressful or badly paid occupation than everyone else is an outdated concept perpetrated by unions who's only mission in life is to squeeze the government for as much money as possible. It's a tough bastard world out there, I wouldn't want to be a teacher but I also doubt many have the capacity to do my job either.



* Which basically took a year of my life and I will never see.

# Tax problem isn't one I've had but I know someone else who has suddenly been landed with a eye watering bill.

A chase to the bottom doesn't help anyone, Chinny - there's little value in saying "Teachers don't have it as hard as me". They have it harder than a lot of folks, and the job they do is critically important.

Pretty much

I remember being at school in 90/91. That's about it.

From the bbc:




I'd still recommend my friend's book on the problems facing teachers. Even the daily mail serialised some of it.

*starts a 'Lorries for Teachers' campaign*

It's almost like haulage companies and teachers' houses are different places.

Why is he complaining about teachers? His ire is clearly directed at shop owners! Lazy cunts the lot of them!

Chinny you're moaning about aspects of a job that comes with the choice of being self-employed; you get stresses that other people don't because you also get the benefits of that decision (i.e. being your own boss and thus not having to answer to anyone except yourself). No one can have it both ways and in the bizarre pissing contest you seem to want to engage in about 'who has it worst' you're comparing apples with oranges there.

"Yadda yadda yadda, ice could crack at any second, yadda yadda yadda, road has claimed 19 people already this year, yadda yadda yadda, disaster strikes when the 18 wheel lorry suffers a blow out so it only has 17 wheels to run on, yadda yadda yadda, avalanches could bury you alive, etc"

Do you know of a website where I could find it cheapest?

So what you are saying is nobody chooses to be a teacher therefore you simply cannot compare this occupation with any other?

Er, right.

I'd imagine a huge percentage have it forced upon them due to not being able to get another job, yes

No, what we're saying is that "I have it harder than job X" is a completely pointless discussion.

Then so is "Teachers have it harder than job Y".

Not really - because it's a lot better to champion better working conditions than worse ones.

But they have it so hard, they can't come to work if it snows.

Or something.

I must confess, the original point seems to have been lost somewhat.

I was quite surprised by the people suddenly deciding to become teachers, in the final term, in my cohort, for sure.

Um, what? No, I'm saying if you choose to be self-employed you can't usefully draw comparisons with non-self employed people's work lives using aspects of the job that are inherent to being self-employed and which literally cannot apply to non-self employed jobs. It's as pointless as a teacher saying they've got it harder than you because you don't have the stress of having a boss who's a dick.

I'm a Graphic Designer and even I made it to work today.

A lorry driver dropped me off.

Just received an email thanking us for coming in, and that we should go at half three. I'm bloody pleased I was here at twenty past eight when my boss rang, mind you, as she knows I walk in and don't want to be taking the piss.

Not even to write your name in the snow?

So am I, and I totally didn't make it to work

Wish I had though, because working from home takes me twice as long to do anything so the two extra hours I would have possibly travelled will be spent dealing with a crap VPN connenction instead!

Still. Work from bed has to be worth something of a yay

Wait, wadda ya mean "even I" ?!

Just because we're creative doesn't make us slackers under snow

Uh-huh.

That's not graphic design.

I know, being a creative slacker made me a Graphic Designer.

I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good idea: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 60273.html

It would save the next Mod vote.

he should go to a Medway town and buy a lass a drink...