Be Excellent To Each Other :: View topic - GTA V

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

TOO MUCH FUCKING CHOICE. You can't play a game these days without some cunt bemoaning you can't do this or that, or some cunt talking about player agency, or some cunt moaning that the ending wasn't the ending they wanted and they want it changing, or more endings, multiple fucking jackpot endings. "GIVE ME MORE" everyone screams but me cause I don't want more. I want you to force feed me a storyline and shove it down my throat hole, slap me in the face and make me say "thank you, sir, can I have some more".

Cause I'm pissed off at the three endings: I don't want them. I want one ending. The ending I deserve and everyone has to swallow. I don't want a world where everyone can have their own endings like flicking through the pages of a Fighting Fantasy book. I want to play Escape from Warlock Mountain once and if I fuck up, then that's my ending. That was the conclusion of my story. I don't want to find the bride. Reload from my last save, like a scumbag, and kill the bride and shag the evil warlord. I want to fall down a pit to my death, cause life doesn't allow multiple endings. I don't want everyone to have their own story; one story is good enough for everyone - like it or fuck right off. Instead you get a watered down version of all stories.

Right, so this is why I'm rapido typing in a stream of endless drivel (I'm not going back to spell check it or nowt, cause I just want to see what I end up typing): Michael's death is the best ending. It's almost perfect; it's bittersweet. Michael was always a scumbag - he cheated Trevor, he wanted to kill Trevor, he needed Trevor and used him - hell, Franklin complained during that ending that Michael was using him. He was a user. A people user, and abuser. He wanted the happy life and sold out his so-called friends for his own ends, and fuck them if they die in a blaze of glory. If there was any remorse for Brad being killed and boxed up in Michael's grave then he didn't show it throughout the game. Probably cause he didn't give two shits. He had made more friends, government friends, more powerful, that could give him a cushy life. Then when he'd ruined his cushy life through apathy and boredom, he takes a young black kid and uses him to get his old glories back. But Franklin was a hood with the hood mentality: snitches are worse than paedo's. Michael hides it from him but when it's all out in the open, he gets a knock on the door and is asked to kill Michael. He's a snitch.

That's where the multiple stories don't work.

Franklin's story should have been building to that moment. The multiple stories don't allow for the subtle nuances that could have been placed in the story up until that point. Think on it, as Franklin might say, it would have been great. He learns his mentor is a snitch. The worse kind of rat on the planet as far as a kid from the neighbourhood is concerned. (For some reason I'm hearing that guy in "I love you Philip Morris" screaming "My word is my bond. My word is my muthafucking bond. My muthafucking word is my muthafucking bond." Funny that woh). That last mission could have been so much better as well - Franklin confronting Michael about being a rat would have been fantastic, why he lied to him, how his mentor was scum. But Noooooooo, because the money had been spent on Option C and a big ridiculous shoot out and silly way of wrapping up all the loose ends for a nice warm happy ending (well, as far as murdering someone can go). It was almost stomach churning.

Anyway, Devlin asking Franklin to kill Michael was gay as well. Franklin should have come to that decision on his own in a lonely cutscene. It could have been fabulous, and dark. Michael's cracked skull on the pavement was a good death though. More could have been made of that.

In fact, thinking about it, Trevor should have died at Michael's hands as well - just before Franklin learns about Michael being a snitch. Trevor could have revealed it during his final moments before Michael ignites the petrol. I can't see why Franklin had to do that, now I'm thinking about it. Michael and Franklin part ways, Franklin learns that Michael is a snitch. Franklin claps Michael - credits roll. And, once again, Trevor's mission was a bit rubbish and you know why - cause it was a bloody after thought to the main shoot out; the all singing and all dancing Disney ending.

So, multiple choices? Rubbish idea. Focus your strength on one story - a story we all walk away from thinking "Wow" I can't believe they went there. A Red Dead Redemption ending. Plus, who's ever heard of a gangsta story that ended in everyone living another day?

Nah, gangster films end one way: with the protagonist staring up at the stars, cloudy eyes, glazed over as the barrel smokes in the hand of a young version of himself.

Sad endings are the best.

Author:	Satsuma [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 22:10 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
I love to complain. ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view! TOO MUCH FUCKING CHOICE. You can't play a game these days without some cunt bemoaning you can't do this or that, or some cunt talking about player agency, or some cunt moaning that the ending wasn't the ending they wanted and they want it changing, or more endings, multiple fucking jackpot endings. "GIVE ME MORE" everyone screams but me cause I don't want more. I want you to force feed me a storyline and shove it down my throat hole, slap me in the face and make me say "thank you, sir, can I have some more". Cause I'm pissed off at the three endings: I don't want them. I want one ending. The ending I deserve and everyone has to swallow. I don't want a world where everyone can have their own endings like flicking through the pages of a Fighting Fantasy book. I want to play Escape from Warlock Mountain once and if I fuck up, then that's my ending. That was the conclusion of my story. I don't want to find the bride. Reload from my last save, like a scumbag, and kill the bride and shag the evil warlord. I want to fall down a pit to my death, cause life doesn't allow multiple endings. I don't want everyone to have their own story; one story is good enough for everyone - like it or fuck right off. Instead you get a watered down version of all stories. Right, so this is why I'm rapido typing in a stream of endless drivel (I'm not going back to spell check it or nowt, cause I just want to see what I end up typing): Michael's death is the best ending. It's almost perfect; it's bittersweet. Michael was always a scumbag - he cheated Trevor, he wanted to kill Trevor, he needed Trevor and used him - hell, Franklin complained during that ending that Michael was using him. He was a user. A people user, and abuser. He wanted the happy life and sold out his so-called friends for his own ends, and fuck them if they die in a blaze of glory. If there was any remorse for Brad being killed and boxed up in Michael's grave then he didn't show it throughout the game. Probably cause he didn't give two shits. He had made more friends, government friends, more powerful, that could give him a cushy life. Then when he'd ruined his cushy life through apathy and boredom, he takes a young black kid and uses him to get his old glories back. But Franklin was a hood with the hood mentality: snitches are worse than paedo's. Michael hides it from him but when it's all out in the open, he gets a knock on the door and is asked to kill Michael. He's a snitch. That's where the multiple stories don't work. Franklin's story should have been building to that moment. The multiple stories don't allow for the subtle nuances that could have been placed in the story up until that point. Think on it, as Franklin might say, it would have been great. He learns his mentor is a snitch. The worse kind of rat on the planet as far as a kid from the neighbourhood is concerned. (For some reason I'm hearing that guy in "I love you Philip Morris" screaming "My word is my bond. My word is my muthafucking bond. My muthafucking word is my muthafucking bond." Funny that woh). That last mission could have been so much better as well - Franklin confronting Michael about being a rat would have been fantastic, why he lied to him, how his mentor was scum. But Noooooooo, because the money had been spent on Option C and a big ridiculous shoot out and silly way of wrapping up all the loose ends for a nice warm happy ending (well, as far as murdering someone can go). It was almost stomach churning. Anyway, Devlin asking Franklin to kill Michael was gay as well. Franklin should have come to that decision on his own in a lonely cutscene. It could have been fabulous, and dark. Michael's cracked skull on the pavement was a good death though. More could have been made of that. In fact, thinking about it, Trevor should have died at Michael's hands as well - just before Franklin learns about Michael being a snitch. Trevor could have revealed it during his final moments before Michael ignites the petrol. I can't see why Franklin had to do that, now I'm thinking about it. Michael and Franklin part ways, Franklin learns that Michael is a snitch. Franklin claps Michael - credits roll. And, once again, Trevor's mission was a bit rubbish and you know why - cause it was a bloody after thought to the main shoot out; the all singing and all dancing Disney ending. So, multiple choices? Rubbish idea. Focus your strength on one story - a story we all walk away from thinking "Wow" I can't believe they went there. A Red Dead Redemption ending. Plus, who's ever heard of a gangsta story that ended in everyone living another day? Nah, gangster films end one way: with the protagonist staring up at the stars, cloudy eyes, glazed over as the barrel smokes in the hand of a young version of himself. Sad endings are the best.

Author:	Mentski [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Saturnalian wrote: ...cause life doesn't allow multiple endings. Whut.

Author:	myp [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Mentski wrote: Saturnalian wrote: ...cause life doesn't allow multiple endings. Whut. Which is why I chose one ending and didn't go back to see what the other two were like. I had the courage of my convictions!

Author:	Satsuma [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Mentski wrote: Saturnalian wrote: ...cause life doesn't allow multiple endings. Whut. Sorry, Buddhists may feel differently.

Author:	Satsuma [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 21:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Dirty bugger.

Be Excellent To Each Other https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

GTA V - stand aside, pretenders https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8857	Page 16 of 26

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:11 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
I am deeply unhappy at the torture level on GTA 5. I don't care how they try to justify it afterwards on the way to the airport, in 29 years of gaming that is the single most offensive thing I have ever played. And that includes Count Duckula 2.

Author:	markg [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Yeah that was a bit off. Most of the violence in GTA games ends up being pretty slapstick, the torture level seemed incongruous.

Author:	myp [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:16 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
That's the one I spoilered a few weeks ago. I understand the point they were trying to make, but it was a bit much.

Author:	MrC [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
It was awful. Whatever the intentions, it was just an invitation for one of those BAN THIS SICK FILTH headlines. Great game, though, not finished yet.

Author:	Bamba [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
I've just read a story apparently confirming that there won't be a version of this for the PS4. Fucksticks; I was hoping to not only play a slightly shinier version but also be able to get shot of my PS3 and still play this. I can always pick it up for the Xbox even if I've got a PS4 by that point I suppose but still. Boo!

Author:	Trooper [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Finished the main story yesterday. Great game. Sure it has its faults, but as an overall experience it was fun and interesting pretty much the whole time. Now to see if I go back and mop up the rest of the stuff to do.

Author:	myp [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:10 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Bamba wrote: I've just read a story apparently confirming that there won't be a version of this for the PS4. Fucksticks; I was hoping to not only play a slightly shinier version but also be able to get shot of my PS3 and still play this. I can always pick it up for the Xbox even if I've got a PS4 by that point I suppose but still. Boo! I always expected this. PC version makes total sense, but next-gen doesn't at all. For the cost it would take to port along with QA etc, it would not be worth it for the tiny XBO/PS4 install base - especially compared to the ridiculous sales figures on current-gen. I think you're in a very small minority of people who held off from the current-gen who aren't waiting for a PC version.

Author:	Bamba [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
SilentElk wrote: Bamba wrote: I've just read a story apparently confirming that there won't be a version of this for the PS4. Fucksticks; I was hoping to not only play a slightly shinier version but also be able to get shot of my PS3 and still play this. I can always pick it up for the Xbox even if I've got a PS4 by that point I suppose but still. Boo! I always expected this. PC version makes total sense, but next-gen doesn't at all. For the cost it would take to port along with QA etc, it would not be worth it for the tiny XBO/PS4 install base - especially compared to the ridiculous sales figures on current-gen. I think you're in a very small minority of people who held off from the current-gen who aren't waiting for a PC version. Oh yeah, it makes perfect sense from every angle but I still want it! stamps feet pathetically

Author:	Zio [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
I finished the main story last night - absolutely loved it. Worryingly, the infamous torture scene didn't bother me nearly as much as it did others, but I only used the waterboard option. I didn't even want to see what would happen with the other options, so I guess maybe I'm downplaying how much I was bothered about it. Now I'm looking forward to checking out some of the inevitable easter eggs, preferably without reading them up online first. I've already found ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view! a crashed US Air jet liner in the ocean to the northwest of the map.

Author:	Bamba [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Runcle wrote: I reckon they could easily sell another 5 million copies if they released some game of the year spangly graphics edition next winter. Where did you see the report confirming no next gen versions? I haven't seen anything like that, although I only really look on vg247, eurogamer and neogaf. Hmm, it was just the first site I picked after doing a Google search for "GTA 5 PS 4" and it references this Guardian interview. However it seems to have jumped to conclusions based on an out of context reading of this one question and answer which isn't specifically about a PS4 release of GTA 5: Quote: GTA 5 is coming at the end of the console cycle. Does the advance of technology interest you? Do you think, 'Oh wow, what will GTA 6 look like on a PS4?' Of course we're interested. But no, not in terms of GTA, because we're always working on the current game. We look at the tech at a more practical level: what will be ready for which game that we're working on further down the line. We don't have another GTA in development, we don't work on three of these games at a time. That would be phenomenally depressing. So, in terms of GTA, no. We get pitched by the hardware manufacturers on what they're planning to do and our tech guys come up with ideas on how that could be used. Does this influence design decisions? Of course. But we're not sat there fantasising about 10 years down the line. We're so busy with what we're doing right now. So, yeah, looks like I've been suckered by dodgy link bait; that'll teach me to check my sources!

Author:	Pundabaya [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 0:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
arrrghhhh! I just did the Coyote Triathlon. 27 minutes of pushing forward and hitting A. and I came second because on the last straight I hit B accidentally, which changes the viewing angle to the helicopter, which changes the direction your controls work... Aaaaaarrgghhhhh!

Author:	Bamba [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Mr Kissyfur wrote: Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls. You're obviously in the wrong job. cups balls

Author:	Runcle [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
SilentElk wrote: Bamba wrote: I've just read a story apparently confirming that there won't be a version of this for the PS4. Fucksticks; I was hoping to not only play a slightly shinier version but also be able to get shot of my PS3 and still play this. I can always pick it up for the Xbox even if I've got a PS4 by that point I suppose but still. Boo! I always expected this. PC version makes total sense, but next-gen doesn't at all. For the cost it would take to port along with QA etc, it would not be worth it for the tiny XBO/PS4 install base - especially compared to the ridiculous sales figures on current-gen. I think you're in a very small minority of people who held off from the current-gen who aren't waiting for a PC version. Would it be that hard to port? I've seen reports saying that ports to from the new consoles would be easier as the tech is much more similar to PCs now. I don't know have any knowledge or experience in this though so it's all guessing.

Author:	myp [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:57 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Runcle wrote: Would it be that hard to port? I've seen reports saying that ports to from the new consoles would be easier as the tech is much more similar to PCs now. I don't know have any knowledge or experience in this though so it's all guessing. A quick and dirty port would be easy, I guess. It's not really their way though, and the QA could end up costing more than the benefits. Put simply: they are rolling in money from the 360/PS3 versions - why bother?

Author:	Bamba [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Runcle wrote: SilentElk wrote: Bamba wrote: I've just read a story apparently confirming that there won't be a version of this for the PS4. Fucksticks; I was hoping to not only play a slightly shinier version but also be able to get shot of my PS3 and still play this. I can always pick it up for the Xbox even if I've got a PS4 by that point I suppose but still. Boo! I always expected this. PC version makes total sense, but next-gen doesn't at all. For the cost it would take to port along with QA etc, it would not be worth it for the tiny XBO/PS4 install base - especially compared to the ridiculous sales figures on current-gen. I think you're in a very small minority of people who held off from the current-gen who aren't waiting for a PC version. Would it be that hard to port? I've seen reports saying that ports to from the new consoles would be easier as the tech is much more similar to PCs now. I don't know have any knowledge or experience in this though so it's all guessing. It is likely to be easier than porting a PC game to current consoles is certainly, but it's still going to be a relatively time-consuming and costly business for, as myp rightly says, a pretty small market (i.e. the few people who haven't already bought it on the PS3/PC/360 plus anyone who'd be interested in playing it again on a next gen console).

Author:	Runcle [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Bamba wrote: Runcle wrote: SilentElk wrote: Bamba wrote: I've just read a story apparently confirming that there won't be a version of this for the PS4. Fucksticks; I was hoping to not only play a slightly shinier version but also be able to get shot of my PS3 and still play this. I can always pick it up for the Xbox even if I've got a PS4 by that point I suppose but still. Boo! I always expected this. PC version makes total sense, but next-gen doesn't at all. For the cost it would take to port along with QA etc, it would not be worth it for the tiny XBO/PS4 install base - especially compared to the ridiculous sales figures on current-gen. I think you're in a very small minority of people who held off from the current-gen who aren't waiting for a PC version. Would it be that hard to port? I've seen reports saying that ports to from the new consoles would be easier as the tech is much more similar to PCs now. I don't know have any knowledge or experience in this though so it's all guessing. It is likely to be easier than porting a PC game to current consoles is certainly, but it's still going to be a relatively time-consuming and costly business for, as myp rightly says, a pretty small market (i.e. the few people who haven't already bought it on the PS3/PC/360 plus anyone who'd be interested in playing it again on a next gen console). I reckon they could easily sell another 5 million copies if they released some game of the year spangly graphics edition next winter. Where did you see the report confirming no next gen versions? I haven't seen anything like that, although I only really look on vg247, eurogamer and neogaf.

Author:	Satsuma [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 21:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Gone a bit quiet in here now most people have finished it. When's the bezzie GTAV Online action going to start? I've played a touch and I've decided it's fantastic.

Author:	MrChris [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 22:01 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Well, it's all switched on now, isn't it?

Author:	Malc [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Pundabaya wrote: arrrghhhh! I just did the Coyote Triathlon. 27 minutes of pushing forward and hitting A. and I came second because on the last straight I hit B accidentally, which changes the viewing angle to the helicopter, which changes the direction your controls work... Aaaaaarrgghhhhh! Is that the one that starts off in the "sea" near Trevor's trailer and ends up in Los Santos? I was 4th for 95% of that, and then about 2/3rds of the way through the running section, I overtook everyone and finished 1st by over 200m! Malc

Author:	myp [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Saturnalian wrote: Gone a bit quiet in here now most people have finished it. When's the bezzie GTAV Online action going to start? I've played a touch and I've decided it's fantastic. Zardoz and I tried to give it a go a couple of weeks ago but it was when the servers weren't working. I'm on most evenings for an hour or two - as we're both in the same crew you should be able to invite me quite easily. I've not seen anyone except Lave online much.

Author:	sdg [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
I've played a fair bit of online but it's on the 360. I really like it, the fighter jet death match is good and the survival mode is good as well, it's like horde mode in Gears of War.

Author:	myp [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 15:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
I'm online now on the PS3 if anyone is around.

Author:	MrChris [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 15:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls.

Author:	markg [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
There's only so many fluffers the world needs.

Author:	myp [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Mr Kissyfur wrote: Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls. I've had two 12 hour days this week and I'm at work before you wake up normal, I bet.

Author:	DavPaz [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
SilentElk wrote: Mr Kissyfur wrote: Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls. I've had two 12 hour days this week and I'm at work before you wake up normal, I bet. I doubt Bamba ever wakes up normal.

Author:	MrChris [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
DavPaz wrote: SilentElk wrote: Mr Kissyfur wrote: Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls. I've had two 12 hour days this week and I'm at work before you wake up normal, I bet. I doubt Bamba ever wakes up normal. I do, though. Mind you, my normal is probably not Bamaba's normal.

Author:	MrChris [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
SilentElk wrote: Mr Kissyfur wrote: Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls. I've had two 12 hour days this week and I'm at work before you wake up normal, I bet. You think that's bad? Well, this week I had to get up 2 hours before I went to bed, then worked 48 hour days but in a negative timestream, so by the time I slogged my way to the end of the week I started back over on Monday morning last week. A bit like Roland's quest for the Dark Tower only without any horn.

Author:	Grim... [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Mr Kissyfur wrote: SilentElk wrote: Mr Kissyfur wrote: Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls. I've had two 12 hour days this week and I'm at work before you wake up normal, I bet. You think that's bad? Well, this week I had to get up 2 hours before I went to bed, then worked 48 hour days but in a negative timestream, so by the time I slogged my way to the end of the week I started back over on Monday morning last week. A bit like Roland's quest for the Dark Tower only without any horn. So a bit like Roland's quest for the Dark Tower, then.

Author:	Cras [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
I've got the horn.

Author:	Bamba [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 16:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
SilentElk wrote: Mr Kissyfur wrote: Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls. I've had two 12 hour days this week and I'm at work before you wake up normal, I bet. He'll never wake up normal.

Author:	MrChris [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 19:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: GTA V - stand aside, pretenders
Grim... wrote: Mr Kissyfur wrote: SilentElk wrote: Mr Kissyfur wrote: Some of us have jobs and can't just sit around cupping our balls. I've had two 12 hour days this week and I'm at work before you wake up normal, I bet. You think that's bad? Well, this week I had to get up 2 hours before I went to bed, then worked 48 hour days but in a negative timestream, so by the time I slogged my way to the end of the week I started back over on Monday morning last week. A bit like Roland's quest for the Dark Tower only without any horn. So a bit like Roland's quest for the Dark Tower, then. Not when he went back to the beginning at the end of the book, though, which was my point. I didn't even have the satisfaction of having a key quest item as a result of going back to the start. Some people don't know how lucky they had it. At least I didn't have to have a chat with Stephen King, though.