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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 17:59 
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It wasn't the topic that caused him to ban you.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 18:04 
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I don't know what his line of argument was, but it is extremely hard to get a mortgage if you are self employed.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 18:11 
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Grim... wrote:
It wasn't the topic that caused him to ban you.

Remind me, as I'm getting old.

Shame he deleted the original forum otherwise we could possibly wayback and check. No money in keeping it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 18:14 
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LewieP wrote:
I don't know what his line of argument was, but it is extremely hard to get a mortgage if you are self employed.

He accused me of saying that getting a mortgage was easy, even after I clarified it wasn't, and he was talking in terms of London, whereas I was specifically talking about the North West.

I wouldn't mind so much but I earned about £20k at the time and had no deposit, so it *was* pretty easy for me back then. He declared this to be an exception to the rule and to suggest anything else was patently unreasonable. Something something rich/poor divide.

There was also a bit where he defended the BBC as having to report fairly on the balance of house-buying opinion or something. Even more amusing since he's spent the last few years raging about how the BBC and mainstream press are all biased and in bed with the capitalists, and whatnot.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 18:17 
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Stu: our communal fondly remembered crazy ex.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 20:57 
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Hearthly wrote:
He's kind of lost me a bit with this whole politics thing, but I still think he was a fantastic videogame journalist, and a lot of the stuff he did for free on his old World of Stuart site was a fuckload better than anything that remained in traditional games magazines at the time.

It's also perfectly possible to work with him and get on fine, we did the Cheating Fruit Machines Fairplay campaign together, which required extensive communication over an extended period of months, and I found him to be a diligent, gentlemanly, and hard-working partner in that endeavour.

(I would also note for the record that JC's recounting of that campaign contains so many blatant inaccuracies I'm not even going to attempt to correct them all. I mean, even the opening line that Stu was a 'thick cunt' for not knowing that fruit machines cheated implies it was common knowledge, when in reality the vast majority of the fruit machine emulation scene at the time (almost all of whom were current or ex fruit machine players) was genuinely astonished to learn that this was the case. I've still got the relevant threads from Fruit Forums archived, so I'm not making it up.)


It was common knowledge. I pointed out to you on numerous occasions that fruit machine ROM code contained some nasty shit, you just didn't listen. Pacman Plus for example on Impact and the fabled "One in ten thousand" chance of a repeat. Seriously though, if you played fruit machines for that long without realising they were a con then I genuinely feel sorry for you, especially some one as intelligent as you are. Maybe you should have listen to reason a bit more (lol asking a gambler to listen to reason... hahahahaha).

Any way, without muddying it and making it all cloudy (because this isn't Fruitforums it's BEEX and we've all grown up and learned since then) you were asked not to use the emulator in your campaign. In case you forgot this please feel free to load up MFME 2, where you will see a forced about screen that you can't disable asking people not to use it for means other than it was designed for.

So that should have been it. Chris Wren asks you not to use it in your campaign, you respectfully grant him his wishes, end of story.

The fact that you didn't listen and didn't have any respect probably explains why you have been suspended from your job for similar antics on the internet.

Seriously, do you really mean to tell me that at (ooo, got to be) 40 years old you are still the same as you were back then? that respect means absolutely nothing to you and "it's only words on the internet". Even after you have had a child?

I may not be a literary genius dude but I know when some one asks you not to do something and you deliberately ignore them and do it any way that it doesn't really gather you any fans, especially when you do it with your fingers shoved in the air and call them a cunt to boot.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 21:01 
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Who is Chris Wren?

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 21:02 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Grim... wrote:
Who is Chris Wren?

He built London


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 21:04 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
So that should have been it. Chris Wren asks you not to use it in your campaign, you respectfully grant him his wishes, end of story.
Vodafone has asked you not to use that iPhone on any other network, but you're still trying to jailbreak it to work around. How is this different?


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 21:04 
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From context, I'm guessing the guy who created the emulator.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 21:06 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
So that should have been it. Chris Wren asks you not to use it in your campaign, you respectfully grant him his wishes, end of story.
Vodafone has asked you not to use that iPhone on any other network, but you're still trying to jailbreak it to work around. How is this different?

Funny, I can think of an example far closer to home.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 21:57 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
It was common knowledge. I pointed out to you on numerous occasions that fruit machine ROM code contained some nasty shit, you just didn't listen. Pacman Plus for example on Impact and the fabled "One in ten thousand" chance of a repeat. Seriously though, if you played fruit machines for that long without realising they were a con then I genuinely feel sorry for you, especially some one as intelligent as you are. Maybe you should have listen to reason a bit more (lol asking a gambler to listen to reason... hahahahaha).

Any way, without muddying it and making it all cloudy (because this isn't Fruitforums it's BEEX and we've all grown up and learned since then) you were asked not to use the emulator in your campaign. In case you forgot this please feel free to load up MFME 2, where you will see a forced about screen that you can't disable asking people not to use it for means other than it was designed for.

So that should have been it. Chris Wren asks you not to use it in your campaign, you respectfully grant him his wishes, end of story.

The fact that you didn't listen and didn't have any respect probably explains why you have been suspended from your job for similar antics on the internet.

Seriously, do you really mean to tell me that at (ooo, got to be) 40 years old you are still the same as you were back then? that respect means absolutely nothing to you and "it's only words on the internet". Even after you have had a child?

I may not be a literary genius dude but I know when some one asks you not to do something and you deliberately ignore them and do it any way that it doesn't really gather you any fans, especially when you do it with your fingers shoved in the air and call them a cunt to boot.


Oh come on old chap, let's keep things at least vaguely on the right side of reality?

I have a massive amount of respect for Chris and what he did with MPU3/4 (later MFME), but let's not forget that he used large chunks of MAME code in those emulators from day one, completely ignored the well-known requirement to feed back all projects that depended on any of MAME's code back to the project itself, and charged real money for the resultant emulator, and bundled in masses of copyrighted ROMs onto CDs that he was knocking out for £50. (Because of course, I bought one of those CDs off him.)

Seriously, we can do this if you want, I still have the emails archived out.

(And indeed he has subsequently been forced to release the source code for MFME after it was proven that he was using MAME code and breaking the terms of its open-source licensing.)

The one and only time Chris came under any legal pressure whatsoever over his emulators was when Barcrest told him to stop because he was charging money for the emulator bundled up with their ROMs, everything else is just what people have made up retrospectively.

The emulators were used in the Fairplay Campaign because they provided genuine proof that fruit machines cheat (the hidden 'LIMIT' code on the gambles in Tropicana Club was a real doozy, which astonished many folks at the time, even fairly hardened gamblers), and in reality there was never any threat to anyone because as has been established a million times over, emulation in and of itself is not illegal. (As long as you don't sell copyrighted ROMs with your emulator, which is what Chris actually did.)

Anyway, thanks for bringing the stuff up about my job and family and home being imperilled because I took part in a campaign to make fruit machines fairer, that's a classy touch, because it's always nice to be reminded about things like that.

(And for the record, and again, because you have a habit of rewriting history to suit, at the time of the Fairplay campaign I was routinely making a decent chunk of cash out of fruit machines, which led in part to the hatchet job that Coinslot carried out on me and Stu - here it is!)


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:11 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Who is Chris Wren?

He built London

*Stands up*

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:32 
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Kern wrote:
Stu: our communal fondly remembered crazy ex.


Heh.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 13:46 
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It was Stu's birthday last week. Happy birthday stu.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 13:51 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
He's turned up in RLLMUK, and lasted about 24 hours before going into a full on deranged rant.
Unlike a lot of people I've got no past history with him so can only base my opinion on how he's behaving now, and he comes across as a complete twat with absolutely no self awareness at all.

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/t ... rs/page-22


i had some work to do today.. now i will have to spend it reading an internet forum.. thanks i guess..

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 14:28 
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Hearthly wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
It was common knowledge. I pointed out to you on numerous occasions that fruit machine ROM code contained some nasty shit, you just didn't listen. Pacman Plus for example on Impact and the fabled "One in ten thousand" chance of a repeat. Seriously though, if you played fruit machines for that long without realising they were a con then I genuinely feel sorry for you, especially some one as intelligent as you are. Maybe you should have listen to reason a bit more (lol asking a gambler to listen to reason... hahahahaha).

Any way, without muddying it and making it all cloudy (because this isn't Fruitforums it's BEEX and we've all grown up and learned since then) you were asked not to use the emulator in your campaign. In case you forgot this please feel free to load up MFME 2, where you will see a forced about screen that you can't disable asking people not to use it for means other than it was designed for.

So that should have been it. Chris Wren asks you not to use it in your campaign, you respectfully grant him his wishes, end of story.

The fact that you didn't listen and didn't have any respect probably explains why you have been suspended from your job for similar antics on the internet.

Seriously, do you really mean to tell me that at (ooo, got to be) 40 years old you are still the same as you were back then? that respect means absolutely nothing to you and "it's only words on the internet". Even after you have had a child?

I may not be a literary genius dude but I know when some one asks you not to do something and you deliberately ignore them and do it any way that it doesn't really gather you any fans, especially when you do it with your fingers shoved in the air and call them a cunt to boot.


Oh come on old chap, let's keep things at least vaguely on the right side of reality?

I have a massive amount of respect for Chris and what he did with MPU3/4 (later MFME), but let's not forget that he used large chunks of MAME code in those emulators from day one, completely ignored the well-known requirement to feed back all projects that depended on any of MAME's code back to the project itself, and charged real money for the resultant emulator, and bundled in masses of copyrighted ROMs onto CDs that he was knocking out for £50. (Because of course, I bought one of those CDs off him.)

Seriously, we can do this if you want, I still have the emails archived out.

(And indeed he has subsequently been forced to release the source code for MFME after it was proven that he was using MAME code and breaking the terms of its open-source licensing.)

The one and only time Chris came under any legal pressure whatsoever over his emulators was when Barcrest told him to stop because he was charging money for the emulator bundled up with their ROMs, everything else is just what people have made up retrospectively.

The emulators were used in the Fairplay Campaign because they provided genuine proof that fruit machines cheat (the hidden 'LIMIT' code on the gambles in Tropicana Club was a real doozy, which astonished many folks at the time, even fairly hardened gamblers), and in reality there was never any threat to anyone because as has been established a million times over, emulation in and of itself is not illegal. (As long as you don't sell copyrighted ROMs with your emulator, which is what Chris actually did.)

Anyway, thanks for bringing the stuff up about my job and family and home being imperilled because I took part in a campaign to make fruit machines fairer, that's a classy touch, because it's always nice to be reminded about things like that.

(And for the record, and again, because you have a habit of rewriting history to suit, at the time of the Fairplay campaign I was routinely making a decent chunk of cash out of fruit machines, which led in part to the hatchet job that Coinslot carried out on me and Stu - here it is!)



Just one problem. Fairplay was when? 2003/2004? something like that?

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.c ... inslot.htm

Chris's code was found to contain MAME code in 2011 was it? And that was done out of spite too.

As for the rest? no, I really don't feel like getting into it either. I don't blame you for Fairplay because Stu would have carried on regardless any way.

You can have your side of events, I can have mine. However, since those days I tend to try at least not to be a colossal prick to people.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 15:27 
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I wasn't saying 'We used the emulators in the Fairplay campaign because we knew they contained large chunks of pinched MAME code' (although it was known by several folks even back then, of course), the argument we used at the time was that the public interest angle of the campaign outweighed other considerations.

The point I was making is that with the benefit of hindsight it was a bit rich of Chris to make demands on what the emulator could and couldn't be used for, when he knew full well that it contained big globs of MAME code that he'd incorporated into a commercial product and not made his source available back to the project, or indeed even acknowledged that the MAME code had been used. (All big no-nos of course.)

I know the campaign was ridiculed at the time and still is today because 'all we got is a sticker', but that's an informational/warning message that's carried by every single AWP in the country to this day, which is more than had ever been conceded by the industry to anyone for its entire existence.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 15:42 
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Hearthly wrote:
I wasn't saying 'We used the emulators in the Fairplay campaign because we knew they contained large chunks of pinched MAME code' (although it was known by several folks even back then, of course), the argument we used at the time was that the public interest angle of the campaign outweighed other considerations.

The point I was making is that with the benefit of hindsight it was a bit rich of Chris to make demands on what the emulator could and couldn't be used for, when he knew full well that it contained big globs of MAME code that he'd incorporated into a commercial product and not made his source available back to the project, or indeed even acknowledged that the MAME code had been used. (All big no-nos of course.)

I know the campaign was ridiculed at the time and still is today because 'all we got is a sticker', but that's an informational/warning message that's carried by every single AWP in the country to this day, which is more than had ever been conceded by the industry to anyone for its entire existence.


It was explained many years ago that whilst it "may" (because no one had any proof at the time) contain MAME code it was practically useless before Chris got his hands on it. It wasn't designed to interface with a fruit machine. It was pretty much rewritten completely.

It was only proven at a later date by a very sick, twisted individual who had it in for Chris since day one.

However as I said, I really don't want to get into the ins and outs of it because it will get us absolutely nowhere (kind of like where FME stands now.. Nowhere)

Stu made his choices and put simply, without throwing large handfuls of shit around (and I apologise for doing so yesterday and am very angry at myself for letting FME piss me off for the first time in many years) I didn't and still don't agree with those choices.

And it really is as simple as that, and even after all of these years having gone back and evaluated the circumstances I still feel exactly the same.

Once again like many of the nasty, spiteful things he's done he simply went about it the wrong way. He did not contact Chris first and ask permission, and once he'd begun steam rolling every one who opposed him he then resorted to insulting both of the developers. The old classic "Cunt" I believe.

I gave up trying to reason with any one and anything even so much as FME related. Now? if I feel a certain way I just say what I've got to say and then draw a line under it and leave it there. The last thing I want to do is sit and argue over it for weeks at a time with some one desperately trying to change my mind.

FME is a sick, twisted place. That's why all but the completely insane have managed to leave it behind and move on with their lives to something less sick, depraved and upsetting.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 18:12 
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Heh. These type of threads always give rise to a wry smile from me; Stu's shadow is still cast long after his departure, best part of 10 years ago now. Was there ever a more adept person at riling people?

From my POV I am entirely ambivalent about him. I suppose I take the view that if nothing else, the man certainly gives me a much-needed good chuckle or three on a weekly basis, though I doubt that's his intention and nor do I suppose he'd thank me for saying so? Still, watching him so effortlessly winding up his detractors and yet himself getting so aerated over (to me) absolutely nothing worth even thinking about for a granddad knocking on 50, well, it's all just so damn amusing and well worth my £2 monthly contribution to his coffers. There's a sort of poetry about it and when life throws a few curveballs, it's all most cathartic I must say, like a long-running soap opera! :D

As for the whole FME/Fairplay thing, well, all done to death and ancient history etc., but I will permit myself to say the following:

(1) Anyone who can't distinguish between, say, the (nominal) infringement to some megacorp, say by unlocking their phone years after it was supplied, and some private individual on a forum, bricking it in case they get sued, is being a bit silly really.

(2) The old "yeah but he was selling his software for £50" chestnut that always gets trotted out, like this was some awful revelation? Well, that seems like a damn sight more understandable - if misguided - attempted "monetization" of hundreds if not thousands of hours of work, unlike, say, charging people £2/month to post on a freeware forum? :D

(3) Anyone who thinks 99.999% of the FME "scene" gave a toss whether or not MAME's precious rights had or had not been asserted is off their head; they just wanted to play fruities on their PCs (and by all accounts, IIRC MAME have laughably failed to cash even a fraction of the cheques their dev team appeared to be writing to said scene ooh, what, 5 years ago now? Mind you I'm well out of touch now)

(4) Finally, anyone who thinks that the "Fairplay campaign" achieved anything other than a very minor moral victory needs to have a quiet word with themselves IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 18:25 
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Let's not forget the bell-end also forgot to renew the Fairplay domain name and it then got cloned with ads on it and he was all pissed off about it. Chuckle or three indeed Cavey ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 18:25 
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To be fair, I think Hearthly very much acknowledged that they 'won' a small concession from the industry and that was it - but that small concession was worthwhile

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 18:33 
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Cras wrote:
To be fair, I think Hearthly very much acknowledged that they 'won' a small concession from the industry and that was it - but that small concession was worthwhile


Bleh. Well, whatevs man. :)
Personally I think anyone who plays/played fruities *at all* for any length of time knew damn well about 'blocking' & the rest (even assuming they can be arsed to read some sticker), but hey, that's just my view and it was all a very long time ago.

Plus, it's been 10 years at least since I've played a fruity in a pub, arcade or anywhere else, and most people nowadays - even the kids - know they're a waste of time unless you "know" stuff. How many people besides chavs and addicts play them these days; how many pubs still even *have* a fruit machine at all? (Quite a few of the manufacturers have gone bust I believe?)

So basically I'm not arsed, good riddance, "Fairplay" compliant or otherwise. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 20:50 
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Cavey wrote:
how many pubs still even *have* a fruit machine at all?


All of them?


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 21:14 
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Saturnalian wrote:
Cavey wrote:
how many pubs still even *have* a fruit machine at all?


All of them?


Seriously...? Not around here they're not. Granted, I'm not exactly hanging round Wetherspoons but the point is this: these very same pubs *did* have fruities in them 10 years ago.

Ask yourself, why are these household names like JPM,Barcrest, Maygay etc gone? Pubs are increasingly premium, family and food orientated, and some leery twat sharking someone else pumping pound after pound into some seedy pseudo gambling machine just isn't a good look in 2015.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 21:15 
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They usually have one of those quiz machines instead. Even better at removing money from people.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 21:34 
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I find the family friendly food pubs still tend to have over 18s only bars, usually around the back near the bins. The frutie will be there, along with the pool table and a couple of dodgy chavs that really shouldn't be getting lashed in the Wacky Warehouse


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 21:54 
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I live by the sea (less than 100ft) and in the many arcades around here there are either absolutely no fruit machines or they have a shady looking 'casino' area with a couple of AWPs in.

But some of the arcades have none whatsoever and the 10p 'kiddy robbing' fruits are all gone. It's all arcade games and cranes etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 21:54 
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Cavey wrote:
Saturnalian wrote:
Cavey wrote:
how many pubs still even *have* a fruit machine at all?


All of them?


Seriously...?


Seriously.

But then again I'll hang around any old dive; yet I still see one in the corner of most pubs even if I don't go seeking then out (never have. Although I'll drop a quid or two when I'm bored. It's just daft flashing lights, init).


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 21:56 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
I live by the sea (less than 100ft) and in the many arcades around here there are either absolutely no fruit machines or they have a shady looking 'casino' area with a couple of AWPs in.

But some of the arcades have none whatsoever and the 10p 'kiddy robbing' fruits are all gone. It's all arcade games and cranes etc.


I went Blackpool once and was sickened that the arcades had been replaced with shit loads of fruit machines. I'm going back a couple of years mind. And the same with Skeg too.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 22:02 
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Do you know what I wonder? Why they chose fruit?

Why not vegetables? Or insects? Or household appliances?

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 22:10 
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I was in Blackpool last week and cant recall a huge number of fruits. Certainly not enough to be astounded by them anyway. More falls than I expected and grabby crane cunts though.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 22:33 
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Mimi wrote:
Do you know what I wonder? Why they chose fruit?

Why not vegetables? Or insects? Or household appliances?

Flavours of chewing gum.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 22:40 
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I might chuck 20p worth of 2ps into one of those sliding coin machines. The potential to win up to 20p worth of 2ps for only 20p is just too much value to resist.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:23 
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Grim... wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Do you know what I wonder? Why they chose fruit?

Why not vegetables? Or insects? Or household appliances?

Flavours of chewing gum.

:this: Some of the original American slot machines paid out in bars of chewing gum in times or places where gambling wasn't allowed. That's also where the BAR comes from.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:04 
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lasermink wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Do you know what I wonder? Why they chose fruit?

Why not vegetables? Or insects? Or household appliances?

Flavours of chewing gum.

:this: Some of the original American slot machines paid out in bars of chewing gum in times or places where gambling wasn't allowed. That's also where the BAR comes from.

Ah! That's brilliant.

Thats my happy thing of the day. Cheers, both :)

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:47 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
I live by the sea (less than 100ft) and in the many arcades around here there are either absolutely no fruit machines or they have a shady looking 'casino' area with a couple of AWPs in.

But some of the arcades have none whatsoever and the 10p 'kiddy robbing' fruits are all gone. It's all arcade games and cranes etc.


Interesting mate; I haven't set foot in a seaside arcade for 15 years or so, but I can't imagine what there're like with no fruities? Of course, it was wall-to-wall Super Line Up, Razzle Dazzle, Big Shot, AutoRoute, Reel Crazy, Superbank and Exchanges Unlimited and the like in the days of my misspent youth; even such rarities and antiquities like Ace Sidewinder and its unmistakable and very loud "peeoww-peeoww-peeoww" nudge noise (the great rash of lo-techs came later of course; it was hi-techs all the way back in '84).

You'll recall some 10 years ago or more that I said (on FF) that all fruities would disappear in favour of random machines with features and if I were the CEO of JPM or Barcrest, I'd be pumping every last pound of R&D money into these? I was scoffed at; features on random machines...? Pah! Impossible!

But of course, we now have bookies upon bookies laden with the likes of Rainbow Riches and all the rest - all random machines with features. And that's not even including the virtual whordes of such "machines" being played on people's phones, laptops and smart TVs; who is going to play some bent, pre-determined piece of shit that purports to give 70% RTP but in actuality you have precisely zero chance of winning on & you're lining some so-called "pro's" pocket (an elephant in the room that "Fairplay" rather conspicuously failed to address, as I said repeatedly at the time), when you can play a random machine that doesn't cheat, can't cheat, and gives 95% or even higher RTP? A bit of a 'no-brainer' there.

So then, the fruit machine is far from dead as you appreciate of course, but it's a very far cry from what we'd actually consider being a 'traditional' fruit machine here in the UK. Can't say I shed a tear to be honest; in retrospect these were surely wasted years for me, and the nemesis of too many young men, House of the Rising Sun and all that malarky.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:01 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
I might chuck 20p worth of 2ps into one of those sliding coin machines. The potential to win up to 20p worth of 2ps for only 20p is just too much value to resist.


...I blame "Tipping Point"

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:08 
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Morte wrote:
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
I might chuck 20p worth of 2ps into one of those sliding coin machines. The potential to win up to 20p worth of 2ps for only 20p is just too much value to resist.


...I blame "Tipping Point"


Meh. Still, you've just gotta love the "chink-chink-chink-chink" of coins physically dropping into a pay tray though, right? (Shit, I know I did. :D I'd probably lost a shedload but there was just something about pressing COLLECT for about £30 in 20p tokens at the arcade off something like Project Coin's Sevens and Melons, with an entirely unjustified smug grin). Gambling is irrational, the house always wins and all that, but if it were down to purely logic, no-one would ever gamble - from shoving a tuppenny bit down a "cash falls" as Gnomes mentions, right the way through to chucking a million quids worth of chips on Red.

Me? Like some recovering alcy, I fecking love it, but thank fork I've (currently) got it under control. The thought of someone like me running riot in Vegas is truly terrifying.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:14 
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I'd honestly watch an hour long programme of people just dropping disks into the machine...it's hypnotic.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:15 
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Mimi wrote:
Do you know what I wonder? Why they chose fruit?

Why not vegetables? Or insects? Or household appliances?


Heh, three cucumbers or a brace of onions just don't seem right though? :D
Mrs C has been trained to remember the entire Bell Fruit club paytable from memory, from years of me lining up four melons, three lemons or even pineapples in 20 years of joint trips to Sainsbury's or wherever - with much incredulity, pitying looks and/or tutting from fellow shoppers, it has to be said. (In between making big nob jokes using a butternut squash, natch).

Probably helped that I "paid out" the actual prize value to her when she got it right, I'm a great believer in incentivisation. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 14:44 
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Cavey wrote:
Interesting mate; I haven't set foot in a seaside arcade for 15 years or so, but I can't imagine what there're like with no fruities? Of course, it was wall-to-wall Super Line Up, Razzle Dazzle, Big Shot, AutoRoute, Reel Crazy, Superbank and Exchanges Unlimited and the like in the days of my misspent youth; even such rarities and antiquities like Ace Sidewinder and its unmistakable and very loud "peeoww-peeoww-peeoww" nudge noise (the great rash of lo-techs came later of course; it was hi-techs all the way back in '84).

You'll recall some 10 years ago or more that I said (on FF) that all fruities would disappear in favour of random machines with features and if I were the CEO of JPM or Barcrest, I'd be pumping every last pound of R&D money into these? I was scoffed at; features on random machines...? Pah! Impossible!

But of course, we now have bookies upon bookies laden with the likes of Rainbow Riches and all the rest - all random machines with features. And that's not even including the virtual whordes of such "machines" being played on people's phones, laptops and smart TVs; who is going to play some bent, pre-determined piece of shit that purports to give 70% RTP but in actuality you have precisely zero chance of winning on & you're lining some so-called "pro's" pocket (an elephant in the room that "Fairplay" rather conspicuously failed to address, as I said repeatedly at the time), when you can play a random machine that doesn't cheat, can't cheat, and gives 95% or even higher RTP? A bit of a 'no-brainer' there.

So then, the fruit machine is far from dead as you appreciate of course, but it's a very far cry from what we'd actually consider being a 'traditional' fruit machine here in the UK. Can't say I shed a tear to be honest; in retrospect these were surely wasted years for me, and the nemesis of too many young men, House of the Rising Sun and all that malarky.


Don't get too excited with your own brilliance and toweringly impressive foresight Cavey, because the real story is some distance away from the conveniently revisionist account you've painted above.

Random machines were originally sneaked in through a legislative loophole (the infamous 'Section 16' machines), and as is ever the case with these things by the time the law caught up they were so well entrenched it was futile to try and stamp them out so instead the legislators had to work with the fact they couldn't be 'uninvented'. On top of that the original big selling point wasn't that they were random versus controlled, so much as they were offering a £500 jackpot as opposed to a £25 jackpot on a fruit machine at the time.

Moreover, whilst some traditional names such as Barcrest and JPM left the AWP market, others such as Bellfruit are still very successful, and new companies have entered the market such as Reflex, Betcom and G-Squared.

Yes the market for 'traditional' fruit machines is smaller than it used to be, but they're now sharing a finite market with random machines, which didn't exist before, so that's only to be expected - however the market is still big enough to sustain several companies which maintain their manufacturing presence in the UK, so they've hardly 'disappeared'.

As for random machines being successful online, these have been around since the mid-90s so pre-dated the appearance of random machines in arcades and bookies in the UK by many years. You'll find that most licensing jurisdictions require that all online games are random (where each game is independent and not influenced by past results), so the operators couldn't make controlled games even if they wanted to.


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 14:56 
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Hearthly wrote:
Don't get too excited with your own brilliance and toweringly impressive foresight Cavey, because the real story is some distance away from the conveniently revisionist account you've painted above.


:D

Lulz. You honestly think I give a crap? I remember the conversations quite vividly; you were plain wrong then, and plain wrong now too, and now you're unsurprisingly completely ungracious in defeat with this talk of 'revisionist accounts' and all the rest, instead of (heaven forbid) actually giving your detractor(s) any credit for anything. Since when have I ever cared about being wrong and/or admitting as much, and if so why would I bother to make shit up in this one particular, and utterly inconsequential instance? (No wonder you hero-worship Stu so much; you two were made for each other IMO - he's "never wrong" either? Nose pushed out of joint, much?)

The thing is though, I hardly define myself for being right or wrong about fruit machines or any other similar trivia, because I've got enough going on in my life not to worry and obsess about such things. You reckon I didn't say X, or was wrong about Y? Hey, knock yourself out, it's all good with me, watch me care. I was just talking to JC about stuff we were both involved in way back when, but can't say I particularly miss those days and am glad to be well out of it all.

I can't tell you how great it is just to be able to walk into a pub with the missus, family or colleagues, and in the unlikely event of a fruit machine even being there at all, to simply and quite genuinely not even notice it (less still whichever low-life is hanging around waiting for some poor sod to feed "his" machine back up for him, whilst he sips his eighth half of diet coke or whatever).

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 15:36 
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Saturnalian wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
I live by the sea (less than 100ft) and in the many arcades around here there are either absolutely no fruit machines or they have a shady looking 'casino' area with a couple of AWPs in.

But some of the arcades have none whatsoever and the 10p 'kiddy robbing' fruits are all gone. It's all arcade games and cranes etc.


I went Blackpool once and was sickened that the arcades had been replaced with shit loads of fruit machines. I'm going back a couple of years mind. And the same with Skeg too.


Thankfully I have none of that to report at this end :)

I live in Aldwick, across the street from Bognor Regis (literally) and in Bognor's main arcades there are no fruit machines. It's all "throw the basketballs into the net" and "smack the rodent" type affairs in the middle (they're large old machines) and then maybe a 3 player Fast and Furious or Mariokart machine. Then there's loads of them rip off things with the "skill once in a hundred" light bulb games and cranes etc.

And oddly enough when you go into these arcades now they are deserted. None of the little scrots hanging around hawking and sharking the fruit machines. And it's pretty much the same everywhere I have been. Littlehampton also has Harbor Park which has been stripped of all but the "Shady casino area with a couple of Scorpion 5s" which is a tiny area with three machines in it, closed in and raised up from the main floor. My lady and I went to Pagham for a week away (LOL it's only 4 miles from where we live :D ) and the same had happened there. The last time I went in around 2009 it was stuffed to the gills with 10p fruitys so I took my camera in case anything emulate-able was there but nothing, not a sausage.

Same thing in Hampshire too. Every year my lady and I retreat the depths of the New Forest for a week (usually when it's cold so no one is there) and the same has happened there. All large interactive games and so on.

They all still have pushers in them though. My mum still saves up all of her 2ps for her grand niece, even though she's 17 now.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 17:19 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
Same thing in Hampshire too. Every year my lady and I retreat the depths of the New Forest for a week (usually when it's cold so no one is there) and the same has happened there. All large interactive games and so on.


The arcades on Hayling Island still have fruitmachines (mainly 10p £5 ones) and a small group of Pinball tables (in very poor condition) , and the last time I was over on the Isle of Wight they still had 'real' fruities (it was about 5 years ago but seeing a real live playable Smash'n'Grab (£4 version) was a bit of a shock :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 17:22 
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zaphod79 wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
Same thing in Hampshire too. Every year my lady and I retreat the depths of the New Forest for a week (usually when it's cold so no one is there) and the same has happened there. All large interactive games and so on.


The arcades on Hayling Island still have fruitmachines (mainly 10p £5 ones) and a small group of Pinball tables (in very poor condition) , and the last time I was over on the Isle of Wight they still had 'real' fruities (it was about 5 years ago but seeing a real live playable Smash'n'Grab (£4 version) was a bit of a shock :-)


I've only been over to Hayling once. Don't remember going into the arcade now, was a while ago. Selsey caravan site had some fruities in the club house but mostly red hot rolls and things like that, all very basic. Then again saying that that must have been four years ago now..

When I first moved to where I am Littlehampton used to have a few 10p machines. I used to play the Bear X as it was fun but they've all been removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 19:58 
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Morte wrote:
I'd honestly watch an hour long programme of people just dropping disks into the machine...it's hypnotic.

It's a trick of believing there's a vague element of skill involved and the cash always seems JUST ON THE EDGE and only one more coin away.

It's the 10p and 20 versions you want to watch out for, that gets expensive fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 14:53 
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Cavey wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Don't get too excited with your own brilliance and toweringly impressive foresight Cavey, because the real story is some distance away from the conveniently revisionist account you've painted above.


:D

Lulz. You honestly think I give a crap?


284 words later...yes? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 15:15 
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Trousers wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Don't get too excited with your own brilliance and toweringly impressive foresight Cavey, because the real story is some distance away from the conveniently revisionist account you've painted above.


:D

Lulz. You honestly think I give a crap?


284 words later...yes? ;)


Meh, I really don't, honest. :)
No, my days of getting hot under the collar about fruit machines and the like are well behind me; I couldn't give a rat's arse whether they're random, pre-determined, or even if Chopley himself is sat behind the glass deciding the "hi-lo" outcomes. Just felt the brief "for old times sake" urge, but it soon passed.

Nothing whatsoever to do with Chopley ( :) ) but man, I don't miss those days one little bit. It occurred to me yesterday that the date I actually stopped playing fruities was the date - pretty much to the fucking day - that I stopped not having a pot to piss in & my wife was having to 'carefully avoid' being asked out to join everyone else for lunch where she worked at the time (for lack of three bloody quid) etc., and now I/we live in rural, paid for splendor etc., without wishing to sound too immodest.

Fucking fruit machines, honestly. If there's any anger from me, that's where it's directed, so I apologise if I came across as a little raw before. Old wounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Being Nice about Rev Stu thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 15:41 
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Cavey wrote:
No, my days of getting hot under the collar about fruit machines and the like are well behind me

.......

Fucking fruit machines, honestly. If there's any anger from me, that's where it's directed, so I apologise if I came across as a little raw before. Old wounds.


You couldn't even make it to the end of the post there fella. Heh.

But yeah the rage I used to feel about them has entirely subsided these days and I did take some small pleasure in fleecing a couple on the Isle of Man ferry thanks to some tips from Hearthly.

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