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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 15:33 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOur8qXvpnk

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 15:34 
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KovacsC wrote:
Just watched the time trial. How fast is Wiggins.


You should be able to tell us, you just watched the time trial.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 15:53 
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Craster wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Just watched the time trial. How fast is Wiggins.


You should be able to tell us, you just watched the time trial.


:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 16:54 
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Perfect ending!

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 17:08 
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That was brilliant. First time I have watched the TDF

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 17:13 
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Didnt you watch it yesterday?


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 18:23 
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Where does this sit in terms of sporting achievements in British history?

Gotta be pretty near the top, with Wiggo one of our best sportsmen ever when you add in his Olympic golds etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 18:41 
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Curiosity wrote:
Where does this sit in terms of sporting achievements in British history?

Gotta be pretty near the top, with Wiggo one of our best sportsmen ever when you add in his Olympic golds etc.

Worse than Eddie The Eagle.
Better than David Beckham.


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 Post subject: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 18:57 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Didnt you watch it yesterday?

yes yesterday was the first time I watched it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 20:58 
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Curiosity wrote:
Where does this sit in terms of sporting achievements in British history?

Gotta be pretty near the top, with Wiggo one of our best sportsmen ever when you add in his Olympic golds etc.


Very high up there, especially as there is no real tradition of the sport in this country.

One thing that did occur to me was this was heavily funded over the last twenty years or so by Lottery money and grants. When you compare the state of cycling now and then, compared to the FA which has had much, much more private money poured into it over the same timescale, it shows just how bad a job the football authorities have done.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 21:02 
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Plissken wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Where does this sit in terms of sporting achievements in British history?

Gotta be pretty near the top, with Wiggo one of our best sportsmen ever when you add in his Olympic golds etc.


Very high up there, especially as there is no real tradition of the sport in this country.

One thing that did occur to me was this was heavily funded over the last twenty years or so by Lottery money and grants. When you compare the state of cycling now and then, compared to the FA which has had much, much more private money poured into it over the same timescale, it shows just how bad a job the football authorities have done.

I assume that funding will drop off with Sky sponsorship and success generating more commercial returns. What then needs to happen is that the cycling funding is redirected to another deserving sport with similar ambitions.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 21:25 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Plissken wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Where does this sit in terms of sporting achievements in British history?

Gotta be pretty near the top, with Wiggo one of our best sportsmen ever when you add in his Olympic golds etc.


Very high up there, especially as there is no real tradition of the sport in this country.

One thing that did occur to me was this was heavily funded over the last twenty years or so by Lottery money and grants. When you compare the state of cycling now and then, compared to the FA which has had much, much more private money poured into it over the same timescale, it shows just how bad a job the football authorities have done.

I assume that funding will drop off with Sky sponsorship and success generating more commercial returns. What then needs to happen is that the cycling funding is redirected to another deserving sport with similar ambitions.


Finally Ultimate Frisbee will get the respect and funding it deserves!

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 23:48 
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Wiggins during Lesley Garrett massacring of the National Anthem.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 0:41 
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Plissken wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Where does this sit in terms of sporting achievements in British history?

Gotta be pretty near the top, with Wiggo one of our best sportsmen ever when you add in his Olympic golds etc.


Very high up there, especially as there is no real tradition of the sport in this country.


Eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 0:57 
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Plissken wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Where does this sit in terms of sporting achievements in British history?

Gotta be pretty near the top, with Wiggo one of our best sportsmen ever when you add in his Olympic golds etc.


Very high up there, especially as there is no real tradition of the sport in this country.

One thing that did occur to me was this was heavily funded over the last twenty years or so by Lottery money and grants. When you compare the state of cycling now and then, compared to the FA which has had much, much more private money poured into it over the same timescale, it shows just how bad a job the football authorities have done.


Ironically, most of the current grant money's been wasted on the Mcdonalds-Coca-Colympics, so...


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:42 
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Plissken wrote:
Perfect ending!

Yeah, I loved it when his bike lifted off the ground with Gaywood in the basket heading towards the Mothership.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:01 
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Plissken wrote:
Wiggins during Lesley Garrett massacring of the National Anthem.


I can't believe it was considered a better idea to fly that screeching harpie in than to play a fucking CD. This is the French resenting and punishing us.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:05 
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Warhead wrote:
Plissken wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Where does this sit in terms of sporting achievements in British history?

Gotta be pretty near the top, with Wiggo one of our best sportsmen ever when you add in his Olympic golds etc.


Very high up there, especially as there is no real tradition of the sport in this country.


Eh?


Badly phrased. We've got a history of it, but then we've got a history of ice hockey since the 1920s as well. It happened, but we didn't do much with it and what we did have was one-offs. We have no real tradition of road racing. Tom Simpson in the Sixties, Robert Millar. In the 90s Chris Boardman and Max Sciandri. Wasn't it as recent as 2005 where there were no British riders in the Tour at all?

I was reading something about some rule that stopped road racing in the UK for a while, so we've always been good at track cycling and time trials because they were only things allowed.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:52 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... arges.html

I'm gutted beyond belief about this. Gutted for Armstrong if he's innocent, and gutted for cycling (and sport in general) if he's guilty.

:(

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:57 
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A less sympathetic view:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... ed-cycling

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:23 
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I'm really torn now. Part of me hopes it isn't true, and it is all a big misunderstanding. The other half is very angry. Again. I feel cheated upon.

However, I did like the tale of him calling up Millar's sister and saying "What the fuck is he doing?" after they ran into each other in monaco and millar was trollied.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:27 
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I can't decide. If he's innocent he should fight it until the end - why give up? But he's never failed a drugs test - it's all based on circumstantial evidence from erstwhile teammates who may or may not bear grudges.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:28 
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Did he fail any tests?

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:34 
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KovacsC wrote:
Did he fail any tests?


Apparently not at the time, but part of the allegations are that he DID test positive, but that the Lance Armstrong Show was big enough to hush it all up.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:36 
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The last paragraph in the grauniad piece sums it up:

Quote:
The moral of the story is that if a cyclist looks too good to be true, then he probably is. But if a cyclist looks too good to be true and has an entourage of lawyers, press flaks, doctors and bodyguards, then he definitely is.


I was listening to this story on R4 this morning. Which is worth a listen again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:36 
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As reluctant as I am to make assumptions, by doing this he's effectively just walked away from his entire lifetime's accomplishments, so that rather suggests he knew he'd be convicted.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:39 
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Fuck you, cycling. Again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:41 
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Craster wrote:
As reluctant as I am to make assumptions, by doing this he's effectively just walked away from his entire lifetime's accomplishments, so that rather suggests he knew he'd be convicted.

Yes, it looks that way. However, his statement says that it's taken too much of a toll on his family and other pursuits away from cycling (cancer charity etc), so we will never really know the truth, I expect.

Plus he doesn't believe he'd get a fair trial, in any case.

http://lancearmstrong.com/news-events/l ... st-23-2012

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:45 
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Livestrong has been a for-profit company, not a charity for a while, if my recollections are correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:47 
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Craster wrote:
As reluctant as I am to make assumptions, by doing this he's effectively just walked away from his entire lifetime's accomplishments, so that rather suggests he knew he'd be convicted.

Yeah. The Guardian took the line that you have to be a master strategist to win the Tour de France, doped or no; this "I'm walking away from the legal hassles for my family's sake" is exactly what a master strategist who knew he was about the get caught would do to save whatever he could of his professional reputation. Obviously none of us know, but to my mind Occam's Razor says he's a cheat (as were, it seems, practically all of them).


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:51 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Craster wrote:
As reluctant as I am to make assumptions, by doing this he's effectively just walked away from his entire lifetime's accomplishments, so that rather suggests he knew he'd be convicted.

Yeah. The Guardian took the line that you have to be a master strategist to win the Tour de France, doped or no; this "I'm walking away from the legal hassles for my family's sake" is exactly what a master strategist who knew he was about the get caught would do to save whatever he could of his professional reputation. Obviously none of us know, but to my mind Occam's Razor says he's a cheat (as were, it seems, practically all of them).


Some weren't/aren't. I hope. I really, really, hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:52 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
but to my mind Occam's Razor says he's a cheat (as were, it seems, practically all of them).

You're probably right. How could someone clean dominate the sport when practically everyone else around them was doping?

It's sad, because his ascent from cancer survivor to sport superstar was an amazing story. I'd give my left bollock just to win the Tour even once.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:55 
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Anyway, time to look forward; cycling is cleaner now, and if someone who is so anti-doping as Wiggins can win it, most of the field must now be clean.

I hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:57 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
but to my mind Occam's Razor says he's a cheat (as were, it seems, practically all of them).

You're probably right. How could someone clean dominate the sport when practically everyone else around them was doping?

It's sad, because his ascent from cancer survivor to sport superstar was an amazing story. I'd give my left bollock just to win the Tour even once.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't easy, even with drugs. And anyway if others around him were at it then his achievement still stands really.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:59 
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MaliA wrote:
Livestrong has been a for-profit company, not a charity for a while, if my recollections are correct.

Quote:
The Lance Armstrong Foundation (LAF) is a United States 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that provides support for people affected by cancer, founded in 1997 by cancer survivor and champion cyclist Lance Armstrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong_Foundation

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:00 
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markg wrote:
I'm pretty sure it wasn't easy, even with drugs. And anyway if others around him were at it then his achievement still stands really.


Oh, I don't deny that he's still an amazing athlete. But the 'cycling star, hero, survivor' gleam he had on him is now irrevocably tarnished.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:05 
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And a bit of a cunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:05 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Livestrong has been a for-profit company, not a charity for a while, if my recollections are correct.

Quote:
The Lance Armstrong Foundation (LAF) is a United States 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that provides support for people affected by cancer, founded in 1997 by cancer survivor and champion cyclist Lance Armstrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong_Foundation


There was something with demandmedia to do with it, which has probably thrown me down the wrong trail.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:15 
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Somebody mentioned the fastest times up Alpe d'Huez.

It's an interesting list....

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:16 
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Curiosity wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Did he fail any tests?


Apparently not at the time, but part of the allegations are that he DID test positive, but that the Lance Armstrong Show was big enough to hush it all up.



How can one person for the drugs testers to not report it...

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:18 
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Quote:
37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France


Quick quiz! What's the conenction between some of thses riders?

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:19 
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MaliA wrote:
Somebody mentioned the fastest times up Alpe d'Huez.

It's an interesting list....

Nobody has gone quite so fast for a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:19 
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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:20 
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KovacsC wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Did he fail any tests?


Apparently not at the time, but part of the allegations are that he DID test positive, but that the Lance Armstrong Show was big enough to hush it all up.



How can one person for the drugs testers to not report it...


In Millar's book, he recounts how he'd been taking a banned substance as he'd "hurt his ankle" so had a doctor's note to explain it at drugs testing. At the dope check, the tester, on Millar's exit, remarked "So,how is the ankle?" with a look which Millar said "I know that you know that i know but there's nothing I can do".

I feel sad over all this.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:21 
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MaliA wrote:
Quote:
37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France


Quick quiz! What's the conenction between some of thses riders?

What's even more astonishing is that in 2004 that stage was an individual time trial. Look at number two on the list. :S

-edit- although I suppose it doesn't make that much difference in a climb.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:22 
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MaliA wrote:
Quote:
37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France


Quick quiz! What's the conenction between some of thses riders?



Based on that table, they're all really, really tall.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:23 
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Craster wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Quote:
37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France


Quick quiz! What's the conenction between some of thses riders?



Based on that table, they're all really, really tall.

Or not quite at right angles.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:25 
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Participant in dramatic games

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for us cycling tifosi this actualdoesn't change that much.. we're knew this, and gave it its place in that era of cycling.... taking of his victories is quite ridiculous IMO

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:30 
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I like to live in perpetual denial, then get upset when it rears its head again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:00 
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romanista wrote:
for us cycling tifosi this actualdoesn't change that much.. we're knew this, and gave it its place in that era of cycling.... taking of his victories is quite ridiculous IMO


:this: Quite, I mean who are they going to give those victories to?

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