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 Post subject: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 16:49 
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I know the red poppy is to support the RBL. What is the white poppy?

There seems to be conflicting info about it.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 16:52 
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It's mainly offered by the Peace Pledge Union and other pacifist organisations as an alternative to perceived militarism of the red one.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 16:54 
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Isn't that lovely?

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My Form teacher from secondary school used to wear one, and she said they are essentially the same as the red poppies in that they symbolise respect for war dead and injured, but without the perceived "glamour" and patriotism that the red poppy can sometimes convey.

However, this was between 1987-1991 so it might be different now

She suggested wearing both if you wanted to.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 17:05 
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Malc wrote:
She suggested wearing both if you wanted to.


Yes, the meaning is really up to the wearer, or indeed the non-wearer. Remembrance should be a personal act, not something done for show or to avoid criticism.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 17:08 
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Indeed. Anyone who does hold forth an opinion on somebody else wearing or not wearing one is an arse.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 17:30 
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I have some white poppies somewhere as I bought a pack of them one year. I don't like the way the red poppies have become some kind of political tool for far right groups to be fascist about.

I don't mind if you want to wear one though.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 17:44 
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Cras wrote:
Anyone who does hold forth an opinion on somebody else wearing or not wearing one is an arse.

This image makes me uncomfortable, though.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 17:45 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
Anyone who does hold forth an opinion on somebody else wearing or not wearing one is an arse.

This image makes me uncomfortable, though.

Image


Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 18:04 
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Growing up I always thought of the poppy as being an anti-war thing. I'll continue to do so even if I agree that some people who wear them don't quite see it the same way. Basically I like that people wear them even if I don't.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 18:12 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
Anyone who does hold forth an opinion on somebody else wearing or not wearing one is an arse.

This image makes me uncomfortable,


That's Stuart Campbell's recurring fever dream.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 18:18 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Image

I've always considered that image to be fucking horrific, and symptomatic of the jingoistic nonsense that tends to surround military service these days.

I've got endless respect for those in the military, just as I have for people in other public service professions - but unlike nursing, care, teaching etc. I'm not convinced that we should be encouraging young'uns to join up for the armed forces.

I don't wear a poppy, but will (and do) happily contribute to the RBL during the Poppy Appeal. I purposely choose not to take/wear a poppy because of the bullshit that surrounds wearing one (or not wearing one) - especially if you're a public figure.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 18:22 
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My grandfather stoppedwearing a poppy when he was about 87-90. I did ask him about it as he’d been in the Royal Legion and even back then (1997-2000ish, when I asked) he said that it was starting to be taken over by people who insisted that you had a duty to support all soldiers in all campaigns and that you stood unquestioningly by the British Army, which he disagreed with, as there were some terrible wars and some terrible military. He said he wore his proudly when it commemorates the war dead and the friends he lost, but as there were so few left now it was being hijacked by people trying to prove a point. So I never wore one that year and haven’t since.

I respect those that wear a poppy to remember those who made a sacrifice, by choice or not, to give freedom to the persecuted of Europe. I respect the white poppy campaign and have done since I was a teen. I suspect I’d wear one if I were more able to deal with possible verbal altercations in the street that might result, and I respect people like me that don’t wear one, because I can remember and pay respects to people like my grandfather without one and without material ‘proof’.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 19:56 
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I refuse to wear a poppy. I chuck some change in the collection, (usually multiple times a year, but I don't mind)but make a point of refusing the poppy. None of the sellers have ever said anything about it.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 22:08 
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How come?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:47 
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I don't like the visibility of the poppy. At the end of the day, it's your personal choice whether to donate to charity or not. It's not just the poppy, I don't wear those stickers for other charities, I don't wear those ribbons.

I just don't feel that it's anyone elses business what causes I support. And that goes for anyone too, I don't want to know what charities Gary "Crispfucker" Lineker supports, nor do I care.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:50 
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Two minute silences make me uncomfortable.

It's enforced respect but no other aspect than an email going round saying "for respect", and it's kind of weird. Not saying we shouldn't have it, but a lot of people aren't doing anything other than making sure their mobile phone is on silent and hoping they don't get a desk phone call during the two minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:55 
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I've started just working quietly through X minute silences, to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:59 
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Tesco know how to do respect.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:00 
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It is not a big ask, one day a year for a 2 min silence. Not sure it means less, as we have less and less people around from the 1st and 2nd world war.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:01 
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Rude Belittler

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Better not leave them in too long, people get angry when you burn poppies!


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:02 
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The two minutes silence is a tricky one. On the one hand, if you don't want to join in then don't. On the other, if you make a noise during that time and put other people off, that's a bit of a dick move. Which means staying silent.

So, um...

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:11 
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Briefly as I am struggling to word this clearly:

i think the two minute silence is important as part of the link between state and people. The state protects the people and it feels right that the people mourn those other people who died trying to uphold this.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:25 
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Cras wrote:
Tesco know how to do respect.

That’s a joke... surely?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:25 
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Grim... wrote:
The two minutes silence is a tricky one. On the one hand, if you don't want to join in then don't. On the other, if you make a noise during that time and put other people off, that's a bit of a dick move. Which means staying silent.

So, um...

It’s the real reason toilet cubicles exist.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:28 
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KovacsC wrote:
It is not a big ask, one day a year for a 2 min silence. Not sure it means less, as we have less and less people around from the 1st and 2nd world war.

It’s not the only 2 minute silence many offices will get in a year, though. And there may be reasons to disagree with it, for some, I genuinely don’t know. Whether it’s a big ask almost certainly depends a great deal on whether you’re opposed to what the silence is being held for.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:34 
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What if, for example, the silence in question was for the death of the monarch or other royal, and you were vehemently anti-monarchy. Though you have respect on death for that person as you would any other human, you disagree completely with the exalted status and ceremony the death of this one person born into priveledge is commanding. It may be a belief that is rooted in religious history, or your beliefs on class and equality, whatever. Then, maybe, it is a big ask. What do you do?

I’d say most people would go to the purpose-built toilet cubicle, but I can imagine that there are some people that object to SOME silences so much they would wish to openly defy it.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:39 
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Mimi wrote:

I’d say most people would go to the purpose-built toilet cubicle,.


Ah. The sedition booth.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:41 
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Mimi wrote:
What if, for example, the silence in question was for the death of the monarch or other royal, and you were vehemently anti-monarchy. Though you have respect on death for that person as you would any other human, you disagree completely with the exalted status and ceremony the death of this one person born into priveledge is commanding. It may be a belief that is rooted in religious history, or your beliefs on class and equality, whatever. Then, maybe, it is a big ask. What do you do?

I’d say most people would go to the purpose-built toilet cubicle, but I can imagine that there are some people that object to SOME silences so much they would wish to openly defy it.
But if someone feels that strongly then they could make a statement and defy it. But they might then have to deal with a bunch of people who perhaps equally strongly wanted to observe it. They would just need to weigh up how much it mattered to them. It's pretty impossible to live in any kind of functioning society without sometimes feeling that you have to do things that you might not do if left to your own devices.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:42 
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Never thought of it that way.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the white poppy...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:26 
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markg wrote:
Mimi wrote:
What if, for example, the silence in question was for the death of the monarch or other royal, and you were vehemently anti-monarchy. Though you have respect on death for that person as you would any other human, you disagree completely with the exalted status and ceremony the death of this one person born into priveledge is commanding. It may be a belief that is rooted in religious history, or your beliefs on class and equality, whatever. Then, maybe, it is a big ask. What do you do?

I’d say most people would go to the purpose-built toilet cubicle, but I can imagine that there are some people that object to SOME silences so much they would wish to openly defy it.
But if someone feels that strongly then they could make a statement and defy it. But they might then have to deal with a bunch of people who perhaps equally strongly wanted to observe it. They would just need to weigh up how much it mattered to them. It's pretty impossible to live in any kind of functioning society without sometimes feeling that you have to do things that you might not do if left to your own devices.

That’s pretty much what I was trying to say. I think there’s probably a tipping point where some people won’t want to sit silently... if you’re actually against the thing the silence is for, but I assume in most situations people would quietly ensure they weren’t at their desk whilst the silence was happening.

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