Be Excellent To Each Other

SteONorDar · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:49

Mr Chris wrote:

Craster:

NO NO NO NO NO.

BAD IDEA.

Hold the election when it was scheduled, please. The mods shouldn't be elected on the basis of "I like CUS"/"I hate CUS", which is exactly what will happen if you hold the election next week.

I'll just repeat that first bit -

NO NO NO NO NO.

It's clearly not working at the minute, and I think Craster's implying that some of the mods want to de-mod themselves, for want of a better word.

Perhaps, by-elections for any that wish to stop?

myp · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:50

Why don't we have a poll that simply says 'Keep it as it is' and 'change'. Easy.

Ste: I'm afraid you're utterly wrong on this one. One member of the forum leaving is related to this, but not for the reasons you think it is.

You'll have to trust us on this one, as we can't say anymore without violating trust and privacy.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Mr Chris wrote:

Craster:

NO NO NO NO NO.

BAD IDEA.

Hold the election when it was scheduled, please. The mods shouldn't be elected on the basis of "I like CUS"/"I hate CUS", which is exactly what will happen if you hold the election next week.

I'll just repeat that first bit -

NO NO NO NO NO.

Don't care, frankly. There's no point the 5 of us moderating this forum if we're not doing it in the way the members want. There either needs to be support or replacement, this thread demonstrates that fully.

myp · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:50

If any mod wants to step down, we don't have to have a vote about it. We can step down at any time.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:51

SteONorDar wrote:

Thought they would, to be honest. I'm getting a strong feeling that there's a certain "sort" of person wanted here, and that I don't fit into it. Now, 2 of the 5 or so people I would genuinely miss from this place (excluding those I know personally) have gone, it would be less of a loss.

You do realise that one left because of the actions of the other?

I don't think people are trying to make others fit in to cookie cutter shapes, and as far as I can tell I don't think anyone has had a go or been mean to you for not conforming to whatever shape this apparently is.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:51

SteONorDar wrote:

I'm getting a strong feeling that there's a certain "sort" of person wanted here, and that I don't fit into it.

Sorry you feel that way, I don't see that at all. I think one of the best things about this place is the variety of people from different backgrounds, ages and opinions.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Mr Chris wrote:

Hold the election when it was scheduled, please. The mods shouldn't be elected on the basis of "I like CUS"/"I hate CUS", which is exactly what will happen if you hold the election next week.

Whilst I agree, I worry that we might just have ongoing backbiting and sniping for months yet. I can't think of any better way to stop that. Personally I would vote back in all five of the mods that have, without hesitation, but at the moment they feel (I think) like they are acting without the support of the community.

I also wouldn't blame any mods who didn't want to run for modship again.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:52

richardgaywood wrote:

chinnyhill10 wrote:

tame compared to stuff that used to kick off in the old days on Usenet

Man, I used to love Usenet. Don't suppose we ever ran into each other did we?

With me, only if you ended up on alt.games.grandtheftauto, or one of the many groups that saw to have arguments with us (alt.games.finalfantasy, alt.config, alt.games.champman are the ones I remember doing so).

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Craster wrote:

Mr Chris wrote:

Craster:

NO NO NO NO NO.

BAD IDEA.

Hold the election when it was scheduled, please. The mods shouldn't be elected on the basis of "I like CUS"/"I hate CUS", which is exactly what will happen if you hold the election next week.

I'll just repeat that first bit -

NO NO NO NO NO.

Don't care, frankly. There's no point the 5 of us moderating this forum if we're not doing it in the way the members want. There either needs to be support or replacement, this thread demonstrates that fully.

Then fine, run a poll asking "do you like the way the board is being modded". I think the majority will say yes.

As with everything, those with negative opinions ar emore likely to make the effort to voice them. A nice simple poll will get everyone involved and I'd bet the majority opinion is "leave it as is".

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

SteONorDar wrote:

It's clearly not working at the minute, and I think Craster's implying that some of the mods want to de-mod themselves, for want of a better word.

Perhaps, by-elections for any that wish to stop?

No-one has said they want to step down. Your first sentence is exactly why we should do this - because there are people here who think that "It's clearly not working at the minute".

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Craster wrote:

because there are people here who think that "It's clearly not working at the minute".

A vocal minority.

SteONorDar · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:55

Was gonna post stuff, too many answers, so it'd be irrelevant now.

Question - is CUS lying in his posts on his thread, or not?

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

richardgaywood wrote:

Mr Chris wrote:

Hold the election when it was scheduled, please. The mods shouldn't be elected on the basis of "I like CUS"/"I hate CUS", which is exactly what will happen if you hold the election next week.

Whilst I agree, I worry that we might just have ongoing backbiting and sniping for months yet. I can't think of any better way to stop that. Personally I would vote back in all five of the mods that have, without hesitation, but at the moment they feel (I think) like they are acting without the support of the community.

I also wouldn't blame any mods who didn't want to run for modship again.

Richard is correct in every way.

Malc · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:58

SteONorDar wrote:

Was gonna post stuff, too many answers, so it'd be irrelevant now.

Question - is CUS lying in his posts on his thread, or not?

I don't think he thinks he is lying. He feels people are against him, and they are not. Or at least they were not. He has been acting much more abrasive than usual, and lots of people have picked up on that, and at least one (and I thought those 2 were best mates) has left because of it. Because he refuses to admit that he has changed, he has brought about what he felt was going on all along.

Malc

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:58

SteONorDar wrote:

Having read them, I stand by it 100%. For whatever reason, CUS is being picked upon. I think it's for posting a lot, and being obnoxious.

Being regularly obnoxious is breaking the first rule of the forum.

SteONorDar wrote:

So now, CUS and Dimrill have both gone, basically because people have been bitching in PMs.

Not really - there's been a lot of different things going on, and Dimmers certainly left because of something that CUS said (about PMs, but not actually PMs on this forum) out in the open.

Goddess Jasmine · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 15:59

SteONorDar wrote:

I'm getting a strong feeling that there's a certain "sort" of person wanted here, and that I don't fit into it.

After the support you have been shown on these boards I am absolutly gob-smacked that you could say such a thing.

SteONorDar wrote:

Still think it should never have reached anything like this point though.

I do agree, but I'm honestly not sure how we could have stopped it happening.

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

Who has actually called for a change of mods? I certainly haven't and I'm sorry if it seems that way. I don't think anybody has suggested it, just a few people don't think CUS should've been banned.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:01

richardgaywood wrote:

Mr Chris wrote:

Hold the election when it was scheduled, please. The mods shouldn't be elected on the basis of "I like CUS"/"I hate CUS", which is exactly what will happen if you hold the election next week.

Whilst I agree, I worry that we might just have ongoing backbiting and sniping for months yet. I can't think of any better way to stop that. Personally I would vote back in all five of the mods that have, without hesitation, but at the moment they feel (I think) like they are acting without the support of the community.

I also wouldn't blame any mods who didn't want to run for modship again.

Indeed. I actually worry for the sanity of anyone who would want to be a mod, given that any kind of moderating is seen as bad. (And this after most said that one of the reasons WoS succeeded was Stus moderating of spats)

FWIW, I'm very annoyed at CUD for what he said to Dimrill, there really was no need, and not something I would've done to someone I didn't like. Someone I did? You couldn't pay me to do so.
I hope he gets his head sorted, as he does appear to be very out of sorts right now, for various reasons I'm sure, but he's not going about sorting it out in the right manner.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:01

SteONorDar wrote:

Question - is CUS lying in his posts on his thread, or not?

Which thread is that, mate?

Da5e · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:02

I'll be back in a week, then. Bye.

SteONorDar · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:05

Goddess Jasmine wrote:

SteONorDar wrote:

I'm getting a strong feeling that there's a certain "sort" of person wanted here, and that I don't fit into it.

After the support you have been shown on these boards I am absolutly gob-smacked that you could say such a thing.

My bad. I'm grateful for all of that. Very much so.

Joans · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8648

Davydd Grimm wrote:

I'll be back in a week, then. Bye.

I guess for some people this truly is the world of CUS.

myp · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:08

Spinglo Sponglo! wrote:

SteONorDar wrote:

Was gonna post stuff, too many answers, so it'd be irrelevant now.

Question - is CUS lying in his posts on his thread, or not?

I don't think he thinks he is lying. He feels people are against him, and they are not. Or at least they were not. He has been acting much more abrasive than usual, and lots of people have picked up on that, and at least one (and I thought those 2 were best mates) has left because of it. Because he refuses to admit that he has changed, he has brought about what he felt was going on all along.

Malc

Yes, and I'll admit now, if I wasn't a mod I'd have been taking a break from this place as well, due to the actions of CUS. The fact is that I'm here to help run this place, and I wouldn't have been a responsible mod by doing this.

Instead I just blocked all communication from him to me. Nothing else. I do not see why this is a crime. There are four other mods who can deal (and have dealt) with him during this period, as I am not willing to engage him at this time.

He has taken this as me persecuting him, but I can assure you I am not. I have given him more chances and cut him more slack than anyone else in my life. There's only so much you can take before you can take no more.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Grim... wrote:

SteONorDar wrote:

Having read them, I stand by it 100%. For whatever reason, CUS is being picked upon. I think it's for posting a lot, and being obnoxious.

Being regularly obnoxious is breaking the first rule of the forum.

SteONorDar wrote:

So now, CUS and Dimrill have both gone, basically because people have been bitching in PMs.

Not really - there's been a lot of different things going on, and Dimmers certainly left because of something that CUS said (about PMs, but not actually PMs on this forum) out in the open.

Indeed. I'm really shocked CUS behaved like that

I'm sorry to say it CUS but I am -and whilst I enjoy having you around, I would rather you weren't if you talk like that to people. It was so out of character, for whatever reasons (personal or otherwise) you can't treat people here as a punching bag for your frustrations.

If I had my own forum and someone spoke like that they would get a far harsher treatment than any of the mods here have been.

But that said, I look forward to seeing you again in a week. Hopefully we can put this behind us.

Da5e · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:09

I disagree with somebody being banned, for no real reason other than 'acting a bit strangely'. Hardly excellence. Consider it a protest, of sorts. I'll still be looking at my PMs, incase anyone wants to get hold of me badly. Unless, of course, this is dissident behaviour and I will be banned too.

's funny how, in the past couple of days of intrigue and bitching, the number of people logged in at any one time has been rather higher than usual.

Plissken · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:10

I will support the mods in whatever they do, even if I vehemently disagree with it. Just take that as read will you.

I've been through far worse than this as a forum admin, so I sympathise because they won't be in a happy place. What I will say is that no one person is bigger than a forum, though one person can drag it down if the other users let them.

As it is, I'm off to find a happy thread. Possibly with kittens, though that buzzard was cute.

kalmar · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:11

Umm. OK. I hadn't read the Eastenders thread (because I'm not interested in Eastenders, ironically).

I still don't agree with the decision but I can sort of understand it now.

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

kalmar wrote:

Umm. OK. I hadn't read the Eastenders thread (because I'm not interested in Eastenders, ironically).

I still don't agree with the decision but I can sort of understand it now.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Davydd Grimm wrote:

I disagree with somebody being banned, for no real reason other than 'acting a bit strangely'..

Except that's not why he has been banned.

myp · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:13

Davydd Grimm wrote:

I disagree with somebody being banned, for no real reason other than 'acting a bit strangely'.

I don't know how many different ways we can come up with the sentence 'this is not the reason he was banned'. I've definitely run out.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:14

Davydd Grimm wrote:

Unless, of course, this is dissident behaviour and I will be banned too.

I think it's fair to say that it takes quite a lot more than this.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Do people really think the mods are just acting on a whim here? Can you not just trust that there's been some good reasons for their actions, and that they can't share these as a fair amount of it took place via PM?

To me that shows that they have a fair amount of respect for CUS, because god knows a fair amount of stuff from PMs could have been cut and pasted onto here if they wanted. But they haven't, because they're showing him respect. Which further suggests that they're acting in a rational and decent manner, rather than just "HAHAHAHAH WE HATE CUS", doesn't it?

I trust them, and support what they do, even if I dont always agree with it.

I can certainly understand if any of the mods wanted to step down, given the stick they get. Maybe we should just install a dictator and be done with it.

Also, what Plissken said.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25594

Can I just say in the interests of fairness that CUS seemed to imply that people, perhaps mods, weren't exactly polite in their personal PMs to him, but this may well have been deleted witt the 'SUC' posts and I can't be bothered looking through them all. As most of us are not privy to what was actually said in these PMs it's not fair that we speculate as to what was said there because though we can now have the Mods' point of view we will not be able to hear the other side of the story from CUS as he's been banned for now.

I do not think that the Mods are going to change their mind, which is OK if it is the right decision in people's minds, but it's unfair to speak of what did or didn't happen in PMs with only one point of view being heard, I think.

Zio · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6093

I do wonder if those so against CUS being suspended for a week actually saw that post he made that upset Dimmers so. I certainly did, and I think that's grounds enough for a suspension. The fact that he's apparentely been exchanging unkind words with others (as appears to be the case) - more so.

This is one strange place. My only problem with it at the moment is the sheer amount of moaning that goes on.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Zio wrote:

My only problem with it at the moment is the sheer amount of moaning that goes on.

Dear God

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:18

Mimi wrote:

this may well have been deleted witt the 'SUC' posts

Oh, I found that XBox post, BTW - it was in the Kudos Craster thread (which I didn't actually realise had gone off topic until today).

Da5e · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:21

Fair enough, if he's been saying things via PM that have offended people. Just, I think the banhammer is a little extreme. Clearly, I don't know all the TRUFAX, but I still disagree with banning anyone, except jane, obv.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:27

Do you know, we never banned Jane (to my knowledge).
And we were perhaps wrong to use the word 'ban' - 'enforced break' maybe.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25594

Zio wrote:

I do wonder if those so against CUS being suspended for a week actually saw that post he made that upset Dimmers so. I certainly did, and I think that's grounds enough for a suspension.

I admit that I myself have not seen it, but I did see it being discussed.

CUS did post an explanation of what he meant later on:

CUS (in the Kudos, Craster thread) wrote:

From the main MafiaScum thread, in an innocent hope of clarification:

kalmar wrote:
CUS basically implied that a while ago loads of people complained about Dimrill on this board, which I find hard to believe myself.

Ehhhhhhhhhh. That was a good point made extremely, terribly badly by me. Which I'll attempt to now to re-do, for what little it's worth.

"Back in the days when you were all Bistro, everyone was coming and going, sending me PMs all the while, asking if I had contacted X, if Y knew that I was contacting Z and so on. Because it was World of CUS, and everyone was PMing me like crazy.

In fact, some people had clearly been planning an 'escape' for some time, or so it seemed. I had a few folk write me quite extensive lists of what they thought 'needed to stay' and 'needed to go', as one put it. Now, despite the fact that I had lots of insistency directed by me, at certain issues, that doesn't mean they were right.

They were, basically, a clique of sorts. And just because there were a few of them, doesn't meant they had good ideas. Such as? Well, here's a particularly stupid example of others' idiocy.

You know the reviews on the site? Like, that awesome Assassin's Creed one what I did? Well, SOME people thought it 'silly' to have picture reviews - you know like what Dimrill did. In fact, a few people said some harsh words about it to me, "Because you're his mate", to ask him to well, not.

I politely said 'No, fuck off, it's not my site, he can do what he wants, and furthermore I like them as do others. If you feel strongly about this or anything, put it to a vote'. Except, see, they basically wanted no cartoons, no comics, no 'silly' things.

Who are they? Doesn't matter, except aha, they're none of them here on BETEO. A couple of them are still on Wos, and a couple I didn't recognise the usernames of. And oh, how we have suffered! Suffered for their lack of...whatever, and instead perished under the weight of amusing drawings!

So, that's what I think of listening to 'mass opinion'."

That's what I was trying to say yesterday. Except, I sometimes manage to be terse, unusually for me! And unfortunately, when I do, it seems the perfect time for me to accidentally cause... confusion and hurt. Despite that being the last thing on my mind and in fact, quite the opposite.

I don't think that CUS would have said all of the above if he didn't mean it - I don't think he's the kind of guy who would say 'oh, I didn't mean it like that, let me clarify' if it weren't the case, just to win people's affections - that never seemed to interest him.

I think that might have been a genuine case of CUS not thinking how his posts might appear to someone else, which is his fault entirely, but might just be a genuine mistake.

Sheepeh · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2320

Just a quick note before I go out to express my opinions. Whilst not all the mods I voted for were installed, I'd say that the current lot are mostly my picks and to be honest I have to support them. People have to remember the Mods aren't super-special superheroes, just normal people trying to keep the peace. There are limited options available for trying to do so, and I've seen them try pretty much every other one, at various points in this forum's short history.

I've also been a long-time lurker over at WoS, and so I know just how ace CUS/Stickleybrickey can be...but previous aceness counts for only a little. I trust the Mods that they have enough evidence to do what they did, and I'm positive that one of them at the very least would have put a stop to any japery where that the case.

It's a bit sad, but I really hope CUS comes back as his former self.

Also, he'll still be on my Live! list for a while longer, as he's done nothing to upset me personally. Sorry if that upsets anyone else, but if we're in a BETEO game please TELL ME if you don't want me to hit Invite as I don't want to cause bad feelings. Naturally any game I'm playing with Myoptika I shall hold fire.

Da5e · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:35

Mimi wrote:

I think that might have been a genuine case of CUS not thinking how his posts might appear to someone else, which is his fault entirely, but might just be a genuine mistake.

It was a mistake.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Let's hope Dimrill sees it that way then.

myp · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:37

Sheepeh wrote:

Naturally any game I'm playing with Myoptika I shall hold fire.

Honestly, there is no need to change anything you do with regards to online gaming. If I have a problem, then it's my own and no one else's. I will deal with it myself.

Da5e · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:38

I hope he does. I don't think it's going to be straightaway, but I'm sure this will all be resolved.

Gah! I can't leave for a week! Curse my overreaction!

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25594

Davydd Grimm wrote:

Mimi wrote:

I think that might have been a genuine case of CUS not thinking how his posts might appear to someone else, which is his fault entirely, but might just be a genuine mistake.

It was a mistake.

I do very much think so, too.

Da5e · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:40

myoptika wrote:

Sheepeh wrote:

Naturally any game I'm playing with Myoptika I shall hold fire.

Honestly, there is no need to change anything you do with regards to online gaming. If I have a problem, then it's my own and no one else's. I will deal with it myself.

Ah, I'm glad you responded, there, as I thought of you as a little more manly and grown-up than to go 'I'm not playing with him, he done said things!' I hope none of this affects the 'legendary' (according to some lovely Scots chaps I made die lots) BeeX.

Da5e · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:40

Mimi wrote:

Davydd Grimm wrote:

Mimi wrote:

I think that might have been a genuine case of CUS not thinking how his posts might appear to someone else, which is his fault entirely, but might just be a genuine mistake.

It was a mistake.

I do very much think so, too.

I know it was, but I'm not in the business of quoting personal correspondence.

Plissken · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:43

Davydd Grimm wrote:

Gah! I can't leave for a week! Curse my overreaction!

As a friend of mine once said "Damn. It's like flouncing out of a room and then realising that you've forgotten your handbag."

NervousPete · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 16:46

Man, I'm really relying on Mercury Rev Deserter Song's to carry me through this thread.

May I just say that I really support the decision not to air the content of PM's without the mutual agreement of the privately messaging parties, even in the situation where it could clear things up. I know it makes things harder for mods to explain, and means we have to rely on trust, but I'd vastly prefer it that way. Also that goes for alluding to what people said via PM's in discussion with other parties. Unless it's "Hey, Joey Jo Jo PM'd me last night to say he'd be along to the party", or something entirely innoccuous, it's not cool.

Second I still like CUS lots but feel a break for him would do him good. I think the Dimrill post he made was out of order, but since he's a decent bloke I reckon he was under a lot of pressure in the real world over stuff that wasn't BETEO related, and this was making him more upset than any threads or posts would otherwise alone have made him. No one's lying on this forum, no one is manipulating, every one is acting according to the best of their lights. But heated emotions makes judgement faulty, and I'm afraid that I'll always come down on the side of a collective mod vote over the individual when it comes to suspensions. Note I said suspensions there - not bans. This was a suspension. I was once suspended from a cafe for a fortnight. I won't say why. I need some mystery. I was an idiot though, even though I thought it unjust at the time.

A suspension. Yesterday.

I'll be emailing CUS later with friend talk. In the meantime all those thinking of or typing with their fingers, "That's it, I'm leaving!" for whatever reason, don't. This forum is worth trying to get right. Excellence doesn't happen naturally, and if we sometimes feel that excellence is becoming a facistic standard, then we need to stop caring quite so much about an impossible ideal of a forum and try just to be as excellent *ahem* to each other as possible.

Later on, exciting* threads from myself shall arise.

Sorry for another long, dull and worthy post from the NervousPete corporation. Also, just like to add that I never liked the 'whatever, dick' joke either. None of that please, I ask meekly.

Righto. I'm off home shortly. Wahey.

*Exciting not guarenteed.

Zio · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6093

Mr Chris wrote:

Let's hope Dimrill sees it that way then.

Indeed.

I've really got nothing against CUS at all - back on WoS I used to think he contributed a lot to what was so great about the place. But surely no one can deny he's gone a bit odd lately? I'm actually genuinely a little bit worried about him.

I don't think anyone has a vendetta against the guy though - and I fully trust in the mods judgement over this. It seems our moderating team get griped at for not being 'Stu-like' and strict enough, but then they go and take positive action over something and everyone immediately jumps on them. Well, obviously not everyone, but you see what I mean.

Gah! Why can't everyone get along, eh? All this place really needs is Dr A, Dimmers and a back-on-form CUS and then all will be perfect. And less moaning please.

Be Excellent To Each Other

CUS

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