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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:08 
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Bamba wrote:
Load testing is actually the only thing I think we currently outsource because it's something we don't do often enough to make it worth getting someone in permanently. Whether we should do it more often or not is a different discussion...
Hire me. I'm really fucking good at load testing.

Craster wrote:
I suspect that he's suggesting that knowing the product and how it will be used to a level that means you can create appropriate edge scenarios that will properly test the product is at least as important as the ability to write scripts.
It's like the difference between a junior and a senior developer, innit.


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:10 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Craster wrote:
I suspect that he's suggesting that knowing the product and how it will be used to a level that means you can create appropriate edge scenarios that will properly test the product is at least as important as the ability to write scripts.
It's like the difference between a junior and a senior developer, innit.


Exactly, but the lowest level of an accepted "tester" out in the industry is so fucking low it's actually comical.

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:11 
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Trooper wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It's like the difference between a junior and a senior developer, innit.

Exactly, but the lowest level of an accepted "tester" out in the industry is so fucking low it's actually comical.

And he's a dick!

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:12 
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Grim... wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It's like the difference between a junior and a senior developer, innit.

Exactly, but the lowest level of an accepted "tester" out in the industry is so fucking low it's actually comical.

And he's a dick!


:D

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:21 
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Trooper wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It's like the difference between a junior and a senior developer, innit.
Exactly, but the lowest level of an accepted "tester" out in the industry is so fucking low it's actually comical.
It's like the difference between a junior and a senior developer, innit.


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:23 
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Trooper wrote:
What I expect from testers is communication skills, business domain knowledge, presentation ability, good written language skills, at least some understanding of the technologies involved, some scripting ability, some database knowledge, the ability place themselves in different roles, root cause analysis ability, critical thinking etc...
Too often the people who I am expected to coach or enable, or apply to me for jobs have none of the above. But they can read a document, write some test steps and run them, so call themselves testers and people see these types of testers out there and accept those limits, which tarnishes all of us in this business and makes life more difficult for the good testers and QA.


I totally agree with all that, but then I expect most of that from anyone working in any aspect of software delivery and wouldn't single out testers specifically. Indeed I've met shedloads of developers who can churn out code, thus meeting the minimum requirement to call themselves developers, but who couldn't (or wouldn't!) understand a business process to save their lives thus delivering shite software by any meaningful metric.

Anyway, it seems we agree on what a good tester should be doing which is a relief as I was genuinely beginning to question my own understanding of the industry there for a minute! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:24 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It's like the difference between a junior and a senior developer, innit.
Exactly, but the lowest level of an accepted "tester" out in the industry is so fucking low it's actually comical.
It's like the difference between a junior and a senior developer, innit.


Heh.

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:26 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hire me. I'm really fucking good at load testing.


I'm 100% sure we wouldn't pay the kind of money that would make a Wales to Glasgow commute at all attractive. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:29 
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Bamba wrote:
Anyway, it seems we agree on what a good tester should be doing which is a relief as I was genuinely beginning to question my own understanding of the industry there for a minute! :D


Awesome :) That's all I was trying to say, nothing more sinister than that :D

If your interested, pm me and I can chat about what I actually do a bit more off the board. I don't like to be too specific out in the open for obvious reasons, but it's always good to talk to people in the industry :)
(that goes to you too Mr Dave. We are actually in desperate need for QAs with good automation skills at the moment if you fancy a change of scenery! :D )

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:34 
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Trooper wrote:
Awesome :) That's all I was trying to say, nothing more sinister than that :D


Aye, apologies, I seemed to get the bizarre impression that you were denying what a system tester even was, rather than just talking about what made a good system tester. I'm a tit, is basically what I'm saying.
:facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:36 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hire me. I'm really fucking good at load testing.


What you need to do is go and work for every enterprise software company ever. Because I've yet to find one that has the ability to back up any of its scaling numbers with anything other than a confused look and "Well, it should work OK with that many [nodes|devices|users|countries|mailboxes]".

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:39 
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Craster wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hire me. I'm really fucking good at load testing.


What you need to do is go and work for every enterprise software company ever. Because I've yet to find one that has the ability to back up any of its scaling numbers with anything other than a confused look and "Well, it should work OK with that many [nodes|devices|users|countries|mailboxes]".


Because there is only one way to make sure, and the cheapest way to do that is to bullshit until you find a mug willing to try it for real and pay for it at the same time ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:46 
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Trooper wrote:
Because there is only one way to make sure, and the cheapest way to do that is to bullshit until you find a mug willing to try it for real and pay for it at the same time ;)


:this: Oh God, so very much :this:.

*thinks of releatively recent scanning project and weeps*


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 17:51 
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Trooper wrote:
Because there is only one way to make sure, and the cheapest way to do that is to bullshit until you find a mug willing to try it for real and pay for it at the same time ;)


Haha. Not so much. We have a tendency to....not really pay for things very much at all.

One of our suppliers we negotiated an unlimited licence agreement and global support contract with in 2001. At this point their product was in its infancy and we had approximately 500 units deployed. Every year renewal rolls around and we refuse to negotiate right up until the last minute when they invariably cave in and allow us to renew support and licencing at exactly the same price as before. We currently have over 50,000 units deployed globally and we're still paying the same as we were over a decade ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:03 
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Craster wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hire me. I'm really fucking good at load testing.


What you need to do is go and work for every enterprise software company ever. Because I've yet to find one that has the ability to back up any of its scaling numbers with anything other than a confused look and "Well, it should work OK with that many [nodes|devices|users|countries|mailboxes]".


One of our shiny bits of sale guff had the term "infinitely scalable" on it. Our product really, really wasn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:07 
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They probably meant "horizontally scalable".


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:14 
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Squirt wrote:
Craster wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hire me. I'm really fucking good at load testing.


What you need to do is go and work for every enterprise software company ever. Because I've yet to find one that has the ability to back up any of its scaling numbers with anything other than a confused look and "Well, it should work OK with that many [nodes|devices|users|countries|mailboxes]".


One of our shiny bits of sale guff had the term "infinitely scalable" on it. Our product really, really wasn't.


I wrote a program to help with Risk Assessments which was to help small businesses to manage small, repetitive jobs. Management then decided to try and pitch it to a company that did repairs on oil rigs and pipelines and tried to convince them that this bit of software would cover all the Health & Safety requirements. Thankfully, it never went ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:23 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
They probably meant "horizontally scalable".

Vertical scale is theoretically infinite, isn't it? Until you run out of electricity, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:27 
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Grim... wrote:
Vertical scale is theoretically infinite, isn't it? Until you run out of electricity, at least.
What? No. I think you have your definitions backwards. Horizontal scalability is adding nodes (think web layers), vertical scalability is beefing up existing nodes (think non-clustered databases).


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:43 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hire me. I'm really fucking good at load testing.



The last business that didn't hire DocG

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:52 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Vertical scale is theoretically infinite, isn't it? Until you run out of electricity, at least.
What? No. I think you have your definitions backwards. Horizontal scalability is adding nodes (think web layers), vertical scalability is beefing up existing nodes (think non-clustered databases).


That's just scalability in terms of throwing hardware at it though. Doesn't help you in the event that you have actual scalability issues in the software. Such as a panicked vendor having to rush us a software patch when they realised the number of devices we had deployed was creeping above the 32,000 mark....

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:54 
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Craster wrote:
That's just scalability in terms of throwing hardware at it though. Doesn't help you in the event that you have actual scalability issues in the software.
Well, any perfectly-designed piece of software can only hope to be scaled by one of those two mechanisms. The imperfect ones, of course, are something different.

Quote:
Such as a panicked vendor having to rush us a software patch when they realised the number of devices we had deployed was creeping above the 32,000 mark....
mohh omlo


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 13:13 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Craster wrote:
That's just scalability in terms of throwing hardware at it though. Doesn't help you in the event that you have actual scalability issues in the software.
Well, any perfectly-designed piece of software can only hope to be scaled by one of those two mechanisms. The imperfect ones, of course, are something different.


:this:

We had made decisions earlier that made proper horizontal scaling really hard - it was much easier to just replace hardware with ever-beefier hardware. Of course, you hit a limit there pretty quick, unless yopu have a spare Cray sitting around.


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 13:21 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Vertical scale is theoretically infinite, isn't it? Until you run out of electricity, at least.
What? No. I think you have your definitions backwards. Horizontal scalability is adding nodes (think web layers), vertical scalability is beefing up existing nodes (think non-clustered databases).

I know. What's stopping you throwing MOAR RAMS at your one uber-box?

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 13:24 
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The 64-bit address space limit?

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 13:36 
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Grim... wrote:
I know. What's stopping you throwing MOAR RAMS at your one uber-box?
I've never found a server that can support infinite RAM. Plus your app might be CPU, network I/O, or backplane I/O bound anyway, and I've never seen a single server with infinite amounts of those either.


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 13:44 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
I know. What's stopping you throwing MOAR RAMS at your one uber-box?
I've never found a server that can support infinite RAM. Plus your app might be CPU, network I/O, or backplane I/O bound anyway, and I've never seen a single server with infinite amounts of those either.

"Theoretically".
Anyway, I'd just get them from the same place that makes infinite servers for you, and host them at the infinite datacenter - at least I wouldn't need to pay extra for the IPv∞ network ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 22:14 

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Tomorrow at 6am, apparently.

Doubt any of us will get one of the first 20,000 then :/


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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 22:17 
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I'll wait until there is a solid build of xmbc available and people have started to sell cases.

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 Post subject: Re: Raspberry Pi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 18:00 

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Couple of months then.

There's going to be a massive backlog... suddenly everyone gives a shit. Once you can order a cased Model B in under a month don't even bother worrying about XBMC - it'll be ready.


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