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 Post subject: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:09 
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I'm sure I've done this before and precisely no one gave a shit, but I'm nothing if not mindlessly optimistic.

So then, real fruit machines, on your PC!

This is perfect emulation of the 'one armed bandits' that festoon seaside arcades and pubs and cafes and service stations and suchlike, they used to be everywhere but they're not quite as ubiquitous these days. Most pubs still have two or three of the buggers though.

The emulators available cover from the early 80s up to about 2006. (Captain Caveman likes the ancient shite machines, but then he is a strange old man.)

If you've played a fruit machine in that timespan, chances are it's been emulated with a lovely looking 'real DX' layout.

I've attached a couple of machines for folks to play with, just unzip the file, run the MFME executable, go File > Load Game, browse to the folder you've unzipped to (it should start in that location by default) and open the GAM file.

You can either click on the buttons with your mouse, or use what are generally the 'standard' shortcut keys, SPACE for start, 123 for holds/nudges, 0 to put a pound coin in, ` for cancel/collect, E for exchange, F for feature etc.

If there's any interest I can upload my complete collection to Usenet (runs to about 5GB), or sites such as Fruit-Emu provide a free download service. It's all non-commercial and completely 'for fun', no one's trying to make any money out of it.

http://www.fruit-emu.com/

Play the games with sound, as all modern machines (from the early 90s onwards) use funky samples stolen from all over the place.

Hmmm files are too large to attach here, I'll use our WoW guild's website instead -

Game #1 - http://files.enjin.com/62279/Wild%20Zone.zip

Game #2 - http://files.enjin.com/62279/Gladiators.zip

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:16 
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I've always been a little curious about these... I'll give them a download tonight and have a mess.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:30 
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I go through phases with fruit machine emulation. I sometimes try it as something to help me with my addiction to them, but it only works for a short while before I end up playing the real thing.

While I used to prefer the feature style machines (Gladiators and Indiana Jones spring to mind), I usually play the straightforward stuff like Party Time (features where you just spin wins, rather than having to know the machine's ins and outs) which, last time I checked, wasn't emulated.

Favourite machine would probably be Kung-Fu though.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:41 
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A question for you AE on another pointless emulator you know a lot about - Pinmame

I would love to do a 'Pinball' challenge on here where people could pick a few pinball tables and we play them one a week to see who could get the best scores - however Vpinmane is an absoloute mess to try and setup and I couldnt easily get a set of files for people to drop onto their machine and click to play.

Is it possible / have you see anyone else set it up ?

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:07 
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devilman wrote:
I go through phases with fruit machine emulation. I sometimes try it as something to help me with my addiction to them, but it only works for a short while before I end up playing the real thing.

While I used to prefer the feature style machines (Gladiators and Indiana Jones spring to mind), I usually play the straightforward stuff like Party Time (features where you just spin wins, rather than having to know the machine's ins and outs) which, last time I checked, wasn't emulated.

Favourite machine would probably be Kung-Fu though.


Party Time is done dude, Scorpion 1&2 emulation were added in MFME V3.0, replacing the functional but clunky BFMulator for Scorpion hardware. (At the other end of the spectrum, Scorpion 4 is done as well, which covers all BFM/Mazooma/QPS machines up to around 2006 or so.)

IIRC I got the crazy token streak out of Party Time the last time I played it, so you'll probably need to pump it a bit before it'll pay anything out as downloaded :D

Kung-Fu was done ages ago but I guess you've already got that?

http://files.enjin.com/62279/Party%20Time.zip

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:12 
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zaphod79 wrote:
A question for you AE on another pointless emulator you know a lot about - Pinmame

I would love to do a 'Pinball' challenge on here where people could pick a few pinball tables and we play them one a week to see who could get the best scores - however Vpinmane is an absoloute mess to try and setup and I couldnt easily get a set of files for people to drop onto their machine and click to play.

Is it possible / have you see anyone else set it up ?


I haven't been able to get Visual Pinball running on Windows 7 at all, and it's still the utter fucking bastard it always used to be to get set up too, I spent an evening trying to get it running a few months ago and eventually gave up.

There is allegedly a 'simple' installer, but it doesn't appear to work.

Actually, fuck it, I'm on holiday, I'll have another go, I was drunk the last time I tried and found it all a bit confusing, I'm sure I can manage it sober.

http://www.pinballnirvana.com/forums/sh ... php?t=4293

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:28 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Party Time is done dude, Scorpion 1&2 emulation were added in MFME V3.0, replacing the functional but clunky BFMulator for Scorpion hardware. (At the other end of the spectrum, Scorpion 4 is done as well, which covers all BFM/Mazooma/QPS machines up to around 2006 or so.)

IIRC I got the crazy token streak out of Party Time the last time I played it, so you'll probably need to pump it a bit before it'll pay anything out as downloaded :D

Kung-Fu was done ages ago but I guess you've already got that?


Ah, excellent - I'll have to give it a go. I'd seen Simulators of that kind of thing (which seems even more pointless than emulation). Hopefully there are variants of the Party Time tech out there too.

And yes, I've already given Kung-Fu a fair old play in the past. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:36 
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Cheers AE, many thanks for the info. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:42 
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i like reading this thread, but i just can't imagine having fun with a fruit macvhine emulator... not liking fruit machines at all, and this seems like removing all points there would have been (money!)

so help me, why is this fun
(not to troll, genuine question)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:51 
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romanista wrote:
i like reading this thread, but i just can't imagine having fun with a fruit macvhine emulator... not liking fruit machines at all, and this seems like removing all points there would have been (money!)

so help me, why is this fun
(not to troll, genuine question)


Because the games are genuinely entertaining in their own right, think of them as games, not 'money machines that can't pay out money'.

Give Gladiators a try, that's a nice fun themed machine, with loads of great samples from 80s/90s bands.

If you're an ex-addict (as I am) then of course they have more spice about them, as I can now play the machines that used to rob me blind and destroyed years of my life from the safety of my PC, but even without that motivator I think they generally stand up as fun games to play - certainly the more modern ones with decent sounds and music.

Then you have machines like the casino £1000 psychotic 'Grandslam' (Cavey could telly you a few stories about that.....), 50p per go and it'll take hundreds of quid off you in the blink of an eye, as you play off the wins on the top reels at up to £10 per spin (!).

Here's a real one, but it's emulated perfectly, and yes the dude is playing at £10 per spin on the top reels, with the bank balance changing by hundreds of pounds per minute.



And Part 2, although it does get a bit samey, it finally does go for the £1000 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OinKSvZ8 ... re=related

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:03 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I haven't been able to get Visual Pinball running on Windows 7 at all, and it's still the utter fucking bastard it always used to be to get set up too, I spent an evening trying to get it running a few months ago and eventually gave up.


I did get it going but there was so many faffs and moving files around - what i'd love is a simple way to get a set of files so we could do a challenge and get people playing stuff like The Adams Family and posting scores.

I may have another go at the weekend to get something usable.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:05 
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Heh! The infamous Casino Grandslam. The last 'real' machine I ever played, actually. At its merciless hands, I took an £800 beating, as my old friend AE will certainly testify. :)

Kinda puts £400 for a nice PC into perspective, huh. There I was, knee deep in empty pound coin bags, thinking how I was ever going to tell poor Mrs Caveman, working her arse off and going without lunches at work for the sake of £2 that she didn't have, that I'd blown away the family holiday budget on a fucking fruit machine. What a twat. :belm:

Still, I suppose I should be grateful to this machine. That was way back in 2002 and I shudder to think how much I would've spunked away on machines in that time, if I was still playing them.

I did have to buy a real one, though; it is the pride of my personal collection, constrained as it is within my gamesroom. It's OK playing fruit machines when you have the door keys.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:28 
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The mother-in-law works in a bookies, where they have one of those roulette machines, and the amount of cash that goes into that thing every day is scary. There are people who'll come in on payday, drop a couple of hundred quid in an hour and then come in next week and do exactly the same thing again. And those roulette casino machines don't even look like much fun.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:32 
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'Gamblers' never appealed to me in the slightest. I'm shocked to hear how many BeeXers have been hooked on them and I'm really glad you all have it under control these days.

I'd be worried that these emulators would give me the urge again though.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:46 
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Zardoz wrote:
I'd be worried that these emulators would give me the urge again though.


It doesn't work like that Zarz, at least not in my experience.

One gets addicted to the 'risk factor' when gambling/risking money for real - I guess it comes down to chemicals that are produced in the brain at such times. If so, this is de facto drug addiction and explains how one can even become (chemically) addicted to something that is seemingly impossible so to do.

There is no risk factor to FME, any more than there is to having your own real, even fully cash floated machines. I found this out myself; after the initial flourish/interest, now my own machines simply gather dust, for 99.9% of the time. I now see them for what they truly are, as a non-gambler sees them. Same deal with 'nicotine free' cigarettes - even if these look and taste exactly the same, they will never scratch the itch for a (drug addicted) smoker.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:57 
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Ok, that makes sense. Glad you have it under control these days.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:02 
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Squirt wrote:
The mother-in-law works in a bookies, where they have one of those roulette machines, and the amount of cash that goes into that thing every day is scary. There are people who'll come in on payday, drop a couple of hundred quid in an hour and then come in next week and do exactly the same thing again. And those roulette casino machines don't even look like much fun.


Those are not technically fruit machines, they're known as FOBTs or Fixed Odds Betting Machines.

The key difference between fruit machines and FOBTs is that FOBTs are random whereas fruit machines are controlled.

So on a FOBT, you can lose £200 and it's still no closer to paying out, it doesn't 'have' to pay anything out, as it just picks a random number every time you press the button and displays the result.

Fruit machines have target percentages which the software actively works towards, so if you lose £100 on one (or £800 as Cavey did :facepalm: ), then it is actually closer to paying out, and eventually it will have to drop big wins.

This for me is why I found fruit machines so addictive but never gave a fuck about casino games or other random games, and also because a lot of fruit machines do genuinely respond to skilful play and/or knowledge of the features/reels etc, you get a feeling of control and that you can influence what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:06 
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Zardoz wrote:
I'm shocked to hear how many BeeXers have been hooked on them and I'm really glad you all have it under control these days.


Umm..yeah. *hides bank statements*

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:17 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Fruit machines have target percentages which the software actively works towards, so if you lose £100 on one (or £800 as Cavey did :facepalm: ), then it is actually closer to paying out, and eventually it will have to drop big wins.


Whilst very broadly correct, that's a very risky assumption though, as we both know to our cost mate, and I'd never recommend anyone works on this basis, chasing their losses in the belief that the pre-determined code 'compensator' will come to their rescue.

It's a complex area and certainly not something I'm an expert in, but it is now widely known that many fruit machines had so-called 'exploits' and 'emptiers' whereby totally counter-intuitive strategies (like constantly refusing jackpots on certain machines in a very specific way, or only collecting one 'feature', or 'reversing' hi-lo gambles, in certain circumstances etc. etc.) always pay. So the player who happens to be 'in the know' isn't really 'gambling' at all; this is 'knowledge', not 'skill'. (Many old machines that AE scoffs at :) were largely based on true skill elements - stopping really fast skillstops, knowing the reels and features inside out etc., but these are long gone).

However, these 'guaranteed wins' are still usually accounted for, meaning that the hapless other players using this machine will always lose, as it 'catches up', ready for the next pasting.

In addition, as you know of course :) , many machines - especially clubbers and casino variants - have very long pay cycles, so they're not going to give back any value for a very, very long time, following a nasty 'suck period'. (If FME is to be believed - actual physical meters on some machines bought by FME scene members for graphics resources etc. come to that - there are machines that don't seem to make anything like percentage, too AFAIK?)

Ironically therefore, a random machine is a leveller and therefore much 'fairer' in these circumstances. (Such machines usually have a much higher payout percentage to boot).

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:33 
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Captain Caveman wrote:
thinking how I was ever going to tell poor Mrs Caveman, working her arse off and going without lunches at work for the sake of £2 that she didn't have, that I'd blown away the family holiday budget on a fucking fruit machine. What a twat.

Fuuuuuuuuck ?:|

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:34 
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Captain Caveman wrote:
Whilst very broadly correct, that's a very risky assumption though, as we both know to our cost mate, and I'd never recommend anyone works on this basis, chasing their losses in the belief that the pre-determined code 'compensator' will come to their rescue.

It's a complex area and certainly not something I'm an expert in, but it is now widely known that many fruit machines had so-called 'exploits' and 'emptiers' whereby totally counter-intuitive strategies (like constantly refusing jackpots on certain machines in a very specific way, or only collecting one 'feature', or 'reversing' hi-lo gambles, in certain circumstances etc. etc.) always pay. So the player who happens to be 'in the know' isn't really 'gambling' at all; this is 'knowledge', not 'skill'. (Many old machines that AE scoffs at :) were largely based on true skill elements - stopping really fast skillstops, knowing the reels and features inside out etc., but these are long gone).

However, these 'guaranteed wins' are still usually accounted for, meaning that the hapless other players using this machine will always lose, as it 'catches up', ready for the next pasting.

Ironically therefore, a random machine is a leveller and therefore much 'fairer' in these circumstances. (Such machines usually have a much higher payout percentage to boot).


Oh I'm not advocating it at as a strategy or anything Cavey, just trying to explain the difference between the two 'genres' if you will in layman's terms.

I have forced a few of the £70 AWPs, and they're fucking scary, I had one that cost £160 for a jackpot (and it was full from the off), which then proceeded to go on a £210 streak (a jackpot followed by a £140 mega streak) - a £210 bank on a pub AWP, how crackers is that?

Here's a pub AWP going on a £166 mega streak, that's £166 off a single top feature (obviously taking a credit for each £70). Needless to say if you catch these wrong they will absolutely take you to the cleaners. I've heard horror stories of £300+ going over the back without a jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:36 
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Grim... wrote:
Captain Caveman wrote:
thinking how I was ever going to tell poor Mrs Caveman, working her arse off and going without lunches at work for the sake of £2 that she didn't have, that I'd blown away the family holiday budget on a fucking fruit machine. What a twat.

Fuuuuuuuuck ?:|


I estimate my lifetime losses to be in the region of £40-£50K.

A lot of my late teens and twenties weren't much fun :belm:

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:36 
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That's a shitload of cash.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:41 
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Craster wrote:
That's a shitload of cash.


Thinking about it, that's probably why £610 for a gaming PC honestly doesn't seem like much money to me, when you've spent your wages and loans and overdrafts and sold your stuff and committed crimes* to feed an addiction, it kind of skews your opinion about money somewhat.

I still think I'm lucky not to have ended up dead or in prison, frankly.

* I've never committed a crime 'against a person' as it were, mugging or burglary or anything like that, more stuff like selling drugs at Uni and shit like that. And then gambling the proceeds in Manchester city centre arcades, to quote Cavey, what a twat!

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:42 
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Grim... wrote:
Captain Caveman wrote:
thinking how I was ever going to tell poor Mrs Caveman, working her arse off and going without lunches at work for the sake of £2 that she didn't have, that I'd blown away the family holiday budget on a fucking fruit machine. What a twat.

Fuuuuuuuuck ?:|


Yeah, I've never felt so ashamed in all my life. :'(

I've spent the last 10 years trying to make it up to both her and my girls, who found it in their hearts to forgive me, despite everything.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:45 
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It's a real eye-opener this thread, good of you all to give us the insight.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:46 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Thinking about it, that's probably why £610 for a gaming PC honestly doesn't seem like much money to me, when you've spent your wages and loans and overdrafts and sold your stuff and committed crimes* to feed an addiction, it kind of skews your opinion about money somewhat.


Very much :this: Well, without the crimes bit. My view on money is completely screwed up as a result of my gambling - when I get a pay rise at work for example, I don't see it as a good thing.. it's just more money to gamble with.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 13:41 
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devilman wrote:
Very much :this: Well, without the crimes bit. My view on money is completely screwed up as a result of my gambling - when I get a pay rise at work for example, I don't see it as a good thing.. it's just more money to gamble with.


:(

Get help mate. Give your missus all your cards and cash and be totally honest with her about your reasons, so you've never access to money. Set up a savings account and put all money saved in that (irrespective of what you owe), and reward you and her with a nice holiday with the proceeds.

Fruit machines are evil things and you'll be much happier without them. Note 'happier' - obviously you'll be richer too, but it's just so good to be able to walk into a pub or service station, knowing you don't *have* to play the fecking machines, ruining yet another night, you can be like other people and just enjoy the pint/meal whatever. Just to be free from the slavery of it feels so good, and you CAN do it mate, in the end it isn't even hard, once you get your head straight. In the final analysis, how hard can it be NOT to insert coins into a fruit machine? I did, and I was as hooked through the bag as it's surely possible for anyone to be.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 13:52 
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Captain Caveman wrote:
:(

Get help mate. Give your missus all your cards and cash and be totally honest with her about your reasons, so you've never access to money. Set up a savings account and put all money saved in that (irrespective of what you owe), and reward you and her with a nice holiday with the proceeds.

Fruit machines are evil things and you'll be much happier without them. Note 'happier' - obviously you'll be richer too, but it's just so good to be able to walk into a pub or service station, knowing you don't *have* to play the fecking machines, ruining yet another night, you can be like other people and just enjoy the pint/meal whatever. Just to be free from the slavery of it feels so good, and you CAN do it mate, in the end it isn't even hard, once you get your head straight. In the final analysis, how hard can it be NOT to insert coins into a fruit machine? I did, and I was as hooked through the bag as it's surely possible for anyone to be.


Well said Cavey.

Compulsive/addictive gambling is a terrible burden for a person to carry, it genuinely degrades the life that's afflicted, not just in a financial sense either, it weighs heavy on a very human level, and affects the people around you as well.

When I think of some of the low points in my life thanks to gambling..... Horrible, horrible stuff. That crushing sense of disappointment in yourself, you've fucked it all up again, and you can see it in the faces of the people who care about you.

Forgive me if this sounds preachy devilman, but honestly dude, you'll be better off without, you really will.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 13:53 
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Joined: 13th Oct, 2010
Posts: 1818
Location: Welsh Wales
Years ago, a friend was really into gambling in a big way (mostly fruit machines and bookies) and actually ran away to London because he had debts. I visited him, and he was living in a squat and well, life wasn't great.

I've not seen him for years, but he was happily married with several children when I last saw him. He still goes/went to the bookies, though.

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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
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RIP, Owen.

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