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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 15:28 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
I think you can stack them up to £12.50 in credits.

I was vaguely interested in this, but CBA to just do it five spins at a time.


Play it on 25p per go and you get more spins!

And yes, you can stack up to £12.50 maximum.


Do you reckon it's sufficiently advanced so as to have separate 25p and 50p pots? I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that it does, meaning that you'd have to play all stakes to get the "full experience" as it were (and, potentially, streak both pots at one sitting :D )

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 15:34 
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Lord Raiden wrote:
Do you reckon it's sufficiently advanced so as to have separate 25p and 50p pots? I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that it does, meaning that you'd have to play all stakes to get the "full experience" as it were (and, potentially, streak both pots at one sitting :D )


The real machine doesn't maintain separate pots for the different stakes, and the cashpots aren't free either, which they are on the DOND machine it's cloned from.

A few guys over at Jackpotty got absolutely fucking hammered by it as by all accounts it's a straight reglass of DOND Gold/Banker Rings Twice - but whereas the DONDs have a cashpot on each stake that is free, plus a cross-stake standard streak pot, Alice's Wonderland holds onto the cashpots with absolute ruthlessness, and when they go they're paid for anyway.

It does have separate cashpots for each stake just like the DONDs, but them not being free makes them effectively worthless.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 15:43 
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I've just spent £2.99 of real money on £60 of pretend money to play through on an emulated fruit machine I can never win anything on.

:belm:


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 15:46 
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Well to be honest that is indeed very belmy. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 15:48 
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"Very" doesn't even come close.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 15:57 
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I've lost it all >:(

Stupid game.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 16:00 
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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 16:02 
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I pressed spin a couple of times and got "777". then a thing happened. Then it flashed yes/no and I hit yes 4 times in a row, then a no, and I got points.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 16:08 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I've lost it all >:(

Stupid game.


Let that be a lesson to you, young man :D

Seriously though, I suspect this sort of thing defines the difference between a "gambler" and a "non-gambler". For me that would be a cue to say "fuck that" and not do it again, i'm guessing for the gamblers in here, that is a cue to try again and beat it next time?


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 16:15 
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Trooper wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I've lost it all >:(

Stupid game.


Let that be a lesson to you, young man :D

Seriously though, I suspect this sort of thing defines the difference between a "gambler" and a "non-gambler". For me that would be a cue to say "fuck that" and not do it again, i'm guessing for the gamblers in here, that is a cue to try again and beat it next time?


Well I don't think I'll spend any more real money on it, probably just let my free £2.50s mount up and play those through every four or five days.

Emulation of a £70 jackpot AWP is sort of the holy grail in a way, as 'proper' emulation never went past the £25 jackpot era. There were a handful of £35 jackpot AWPs that ran on the original emulators, but only in door open mode which is a ridiculously generous sort of test mode.

£70 jackpot AWPs have never been emulated, so short of playing a real one at the pub, this is the only way to play them.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 16:26 
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Trooper wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I've lost it all >:(

Stupid game.


Let that be a lesson to you, young man :D

Seriously though, I suspect this sort of thing defines the difference between a "gambler" and a "non-gambler". For me that would be a cue to say "fuck that" and not do it again, i'm guessing for the gamblers in here, that is a cue to try again and beat it next time?


It's a genius, if more than cynical, idea from the developers.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 23:21 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I've lost it all >:(

Stupid game.


They could add the tagline 'Just like the real thing' :D

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 21:51 
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Well the Betfred cheating games thread has managed 42,000 views and 460 replies at the latest count.

Various people are progressing the issues raised with the various licensing jurisdictions involved, although the wall of silence from the casinos is borderline staggering.

The original complainant has been 'bought off' by having all her lost money refunded on the cheating game, with a vague assurance that all other players of the same game will be refunded for all their losses in the last six months (despite the fact that the game has been live for years).

Personally speaking the whole thing has left a very sour taste in my mouth, to the extent that I just can't be arsed with my weekly slots dabble, I'm really not in the mood.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 19:20 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Well the Betfred cheating games thread has managed 42,000 views and 460 replies at the latest count.

Various people are progressing the issues raised with the various licensing jurisdictions involved, although the wall of silence from the casinos is borderline staggering.

The original complainant has been 'bought off' by having all her lost money refunded on the cheating game, with a vague assurance that all other players of the same game will be refunded for all their losses in the last six months (despite the fact that the game has been live for years).

Personally speaking the whole thing has left a very sour taste in my mouth, to the extent that I just can't be arsed with my weekly slots dabble, I'm really not in the mood.


Man alive, that thread is going from bad to worse IMO, very frustrating to watch. Kudos to you though mate; I suspect from the tone of your latest (totally justified IMO) inputs that you're now, as we speak, in the 'red zone'...

As I've said so many times before, the gambler is held in utter contempt IMO and nothing that I've read in that thread has changed this long held view so much as one iota.

One thing I would say is this; precisely how is this game maintaining its desired 96% RTP set point or whatever it is? I assume the code is intervening for 4% of the time, or whatever, to present the player with a 'guaranteed lose scenario' on occasion? Or else how else can it be achieving target payouts, if not 'passively' through less-than-full-value prizes? (i.e. £2 returned for a double odds bet, rather than £1.92 etc.?) If so, that does rather seem to ring a faint bell for me somewhere, heh...

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 20:02 
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Lord Raiden wrote:
One thing I would say is this; precisely how is this game maintaining its desired 96% RTP set point or whatever it is? I assume the code is intervening for 4% of the time, or whatever, to present the player with a 'guaranteed lose scenario' on occasion? Or else how else can it be achieving target payouts, if not 'passively' through less-than-full-value prizes? (i.e. £2 returned for a double odds bet, rather than £1.92 etc.?) If so, that does rather seem to ring a faint bell for me somewhere, heh...


It's adaptive.

Red and black are presented as even odds with a 2x payout if you choose correctly, which is where the stated 100% RTP comes from.

However, if you choose red, rather than determining randomly that the next card is red or black, the code attaches a 56% weighting to black and a 44% weighting to red.

Choose black, and it reverses it.

The person who started the thread gathered tens of thousands of hands worth of data, and the number crunchers determined that her run of 'bad luck' was as statistically unlikely as being dealt four pat Royal Flushes in poker on the trot.

It's also bent insofar as the real money mode and play money mode behave differently (play money mode never throws up the same number twice on the trot whereas real money mode does, also play money mode plays totally randomly (i.e. fair) on the red/black choices), which significantly affects the expected payout if you're gambling on numbers instead of colours.

Ultimately, even with all of that aside, the fundamental issue here is that the game is deceptive by design, as it presents a weighted, adaptive gamble as a true random even-odds chance. It's no better than using magnets under a roulette wheel to make red more likely to come up than black.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 20:08 
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Ah, okay mate, cheers for the explanation.
Nice...

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 20:21 
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Thieving buggers.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 21:55 
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I'm gonna fire off the details of the case to The Guardian, they've already demonstrated an interest in gambling problems and specifically Betfred.

Also, I'll enquire if :attitude: still has some fire in his belly for this sort of thing, he was very, very good on the Fairplay campaign. Got it on the proper telly and everything.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/20/open-door-philip-davies?INTCMP=SRCH

Quote:
The allegations in the story were: "Last March he was taken to the Cheltenham festival – a trip worth £870 – as a guest of bookmaker Ladbrokes. He failed to mention this when he quizzed Richard Glynn, the chief executive of Ladbrokes, six months later during a select committee session. The parliamentarian has also been given an annual 'subscription' worth £4,680 from Peninsula Business Services, run by Peter Done – one of two brothers who founded BetFred, a bookmaker with 1,000 betting shops in Britain and which took over the Tote. Done remains a shareholder in BetFred's holding company."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/jan/04/5bn-gambled-britian-poorest-high-street?INTCMP=SRCH

£5bn gambled on Britain's poorest high streets: see the data

Quote:
Stephen Timms, the Labour MP for East Ham, said it was a "real problem" in his constituency which the figures suggest see £183m gambled in betting shops on these machines. "This is money people don't have. We have three BetFred shops on the high street in East Ham. Do we need them?".


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:02 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Also, I'll enquire if :attitude: still has some fire in his belly for this sort of thing, he was very, very good on the Fairplay campaign. Got it on the proper telly and everything.


For the record, I've love to see this. Good luck; I seriously doubt that any fire in said belly is found to be wanting.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:52 
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... Aaaaaaand it's thread closed by the admin, following a bunch of red herrings about the OP to muddy the waters quite nicely, which have NOTHING to do with the shocking revelations and empirical truths uncovered by that thread.

Quote:
Established in 1998, Casinomeister has never wavered from its initial mission:

"Trust is what it's all about. Our mission at Casinomeister is to provide solid information; information that enables players to make smart choices. Since trust is spawned by information, the more players know about online casinos, the more at ease and safer they will be."
Since these words were first published, Casinomeister has proven to be instrumental in bringing trust, credence, and a level playing ground for the online gaming community.


HAH!

/spits

Like, as fucking if.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 19:37 
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Lord Raiden wrote:
... Aaaaaaand it's thread closed by the admin, following a bunch of red herrings about the OP to muddy the waters quite nicely, which have NOTHING to do with the shocking revelations and empirical truths uncovered by that thread.

Quote:
Established in 1998, Casinomeister has never wavered from its initial mission:

"Trust is what it's all about. Our mission at Casinomeister is to provide solid information; information that enables players to make smart choices. Since trust is spawned by information, the more players know about online casinos, the more at ease and safer they will be."
Since these words were first published, Casinomeister has proven to be instrumental in bringing trust, credence, and a level playing ground for the online gaming community.


HAH!

/spits

Like, as fucking if.


Yeah it's a poor show and no mistake.

The entire Casinomeister enterprise has dropped greatly in my estimation.

At the end of the day I suppose it's a business for him, and as always, money trumps truth.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 0:30 
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Needless to say you can't kill the internet, a kindly chap PMed me at the CM forums and pointed me off to here.

http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling ... t-casinos/

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 0:35 
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Fuck that, I'm fucking out of there.

Fucking cheats.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:45 
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I have found my way onto the moderated users list.

All my posts must now be pre-approved :D

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:47 
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I haven't read all of this thread, I admit but with the bits I've picked up on, wouldn't the papers be interested? You should write to the sun or something.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 17:45 
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TheVision wrote:
I haven't read all of this thread, I admit but with the bits I've picked up on, wouldn't the papers be interested? You should write to the sun or something.


It's been suggested that Private Eye might be a good bet, so I'm going to fire off a communication to them.

It ticks a few nice boxes, insofar as you've got a UK high street plundering bookmaker running a tax-dodging casino out of Gibraltar that's defrauding UK players and being defended by a USA based website that derives its income from casino affiliation referrals, including Betfred.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 20:12 
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The Daily Mail woul jizz itself silly over that!

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 20:14 
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Curiosity wrote:
The Daily Mail woul jizz itself silly over that!


Someone's already tried them, the best they could manage was getting put through to an answerphone.

I've contacted the guy at The Guardian who tends to write their gambling pieces but got his out of office, he's back in tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 16:07 
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Following up from previous:

Philip Davies MP wrote:


Investigation ongoing.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:21 
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Interesting article about Roulette machines

Quote:
"They are fun if you win, but mentally they put pressure on you. You feel down if you lose. It doesn't sink in straight away, maybe only an hour or two later when you go home," he says. "They do destroy lives. People can't control themselves ... like me today. I was up £100, but afterwards, the more I had, the more I fed the machine. You're winning, but you can't stop yourself. You lose a sense of the money's value when it is in the machine. It's just a number.

"Even when you win, you still feel miserable. You think: 'Why did I go in there in the first place?'"


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 19:07 
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Dunno if this is still the "gambling thread" here. Is it? Couldn't seem to find that other "free money"/Sky one, but no matter. Probably it's down to me being a clueless old tosspot, or something.

Anyway, thought I'd give a few people a chortle. You know my "reformed gambler/never gamble" stance, right? Well, unsurprisingly (and even after all these years), I went onto Sky Vegas and had a freeplay pop at some random slots, and tried out my "system" on low stakes roulette, where you can bet as little as 1p per spin.

You know "the system", right? Basically, keep betting on black or red, or even or odd, or low or high (basically evens odds of course). Each time you lose a spin, double your bet. Providing your cash roll is big enough and your initial bet small enough, the theory goes that the odds are massively against your losing; you should (slowly) build up a nice little profit...

So what did I do? Yup, I "tried the system out" on freeplay, and my word it seemed to work swimmingly. In no time at all, despite only betting 25p/spin, I was sitting on a nice little wad of virtual cash. Those "Totally Free £10!!11" and "We'll match your deposit!!1" [except they don't of course, nothing like it in fact, see below], seemed mighty tempting. I mean, I've been off the fruits for well over a decade and it sure would be nice to bag a cheeky £50 and have some fun doing it, right chums?

So, naturally, being an arsehole who'd entirely forgotten what it was even like to gamble, or the risks, I signed up and duly deposited £100 for a nice, fat stash, and collected my free tenner as well, making £110. Things went swimmingly; there I was betting 25p just like before, and soon had a fiver in profit (plus the free tenner), just by dicking about for 20 mins or so. I even went super-cautious and dropped the bet to 10p - and then 5p (yes that's right, five fucking pence), just to be super super super safe.

So what happened? Having alternated between red/black (noticing that the virtual wheel seemed to kick up loads of blacks when betting red, but with my tiny bets it didn't matter as I was 'guaranteed' one red in the running order, and that's all I needed, I switched to even/odd (same deal, loads of odd numbers when betting even, but always an occasional even to ensure I kept on winning, albeit tiny amounts). I then switched to low(<18)/high(>18), and guess what? ELEVEN losing spins on the fucking trot, meaning by 5p bet had doubled up to fifty fucking quid and my stash was burned. The very next spin I bet whatever little was left on low, and it still fucking lost, meaning twelve losing spins on the trot.

I mean seriously, who's ever heard of 12 reds or blacks in a row on a real roulette wheel? Yes I know it can happen, blah blah fucking blah, but the odds are tiny - very approximately 4000:1. One hundred and twenty quid down the shitter for a "5 pence jackpot"...

In an enraged state, I then deposited another £100 and tried my "system" except using fully £5 starting bet. I managed to pot about £30 profit before going on a massive losing run of spins again (though not as many, obviously, since my bankroll vs. stake would not allow that), and promptly got down to my last £25.

I bet all of this on black, it came in for £50. Rebet the lot on black again, £100. Rebet the lot on black again, £200. Cold sweat and cash out, thank you very much, goodnight Irene. So much for my "system"...


Epilogue: My "bonus" for having deposited - and fully played - all £200?
£2. Which I lost, on Lo Stakes Roulette (since I refuse to play fucking fruities for real).

There's no fool like an old fool; I consider myself very fortunate to still have my shirt. That'll do me for the next 12 years or so methinks.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 19:08 
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That is known as the Martingale System and is well known as a bad gambling system. It will, over time, always lose to a house edge, with the possibility of catastrophic loss against a small gain.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 19:11 
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Curiosity wrote:
That is known as the Martingdale System and js well known as the worst gambling system. It will, over time, always lose.


Fair enough Curio, sure you're right - but 12 high numbers >18 in a row (equivalent to 12 reds in a row, or 12 blacks), given the tiny number of spins?

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 19:12 
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Cavey wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
That is known as the Martingdale System and js well known as the worst gambling system. It will, over time, always lose.


Fair enough Curio, sure you're right - but 12 high numbers >18 in a row (equivalent to 12 reds in a row, or 12 blacks), given the tiny number of spins?


It happens more than you would think. I saw a wheel in Vegas hit black around twenty five times in a row. It was bankrupting people who walked in and thought, "Oh, it must pay out now!"

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 19:26 
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All Martingale does is massively increase the variance (peaks and troughs) of the game, it doesn't change the RTP (percentage returned to player) at all. (On European Roulette this is 97.3%, with the double 00 American variant it's 94.74%, always play European roulette where you have a choice!)

Some online casinos prohibit Martingale because they're (a) Clueless and incompetent or (b) Don't like the way it can skew variance. (For example Martingale can work well when on bonus play to increase a player's balance and then grind out on slots. This is the same reason a lot of online casinos limit bet size on slots when a bonus is active, to prevent a few insane spins which, should they hit anything, damn near guarantee a cash out for the player if they go into 'grind' mode.)

The problem with Martingale for the player is that whilst you will seem to win a modest sum an amazing amount of time, when you lose with it, you lose big, because you've deliberately jacked the variance of the game to 'win a bit most of the time, but lose massive a very small amount of the time' mode.

Over at the Casinomeister forums a casino software developer said he would happily welcome Martingale players from all over the world, because the casino's house edge on the game remains exactly the same, however it's played.

TBH Cavey it sounds like you had a lucky escape hitting the big loss fairly early on, as getting confident and then upping your bets with Martingale and then hitting the unlucky patch can be ruinous.

And in future, run this sort of stuff by us first eh? :D


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:02 
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Yeah, I get it mate, I'm not totally daft. In my profession I use maths and everything likes. ;)

My point is (other than to give people a laugh at my expense - deservedly), you can't get playing it much safer than a 5p starting stake on a roulette table, thereby budgeting for up to 12 losing ~50/50 spins on the bounce. As I've said, the fact remains that the chances of something like this happening on a physical roulette table is (at least) 4000:1 (and actually more like 1:5690 when the zero is accounted for also, which did not come up in the running order btw).

I mean really, 1:5690? You pick a number between 1 and 6000, and I've got to guess it correctly? Shit, we'd be playing that game for a month and I wouldn't get it. It's about the same odds as correctly picking one card correctly from a deck of 52, then doing it AGAIN, and THEN flipping heads on a coin. Yeah, it's possible, but you really ain't gonna do it. Bear in mind, also, as I've said, that this happened within 20 mins or so, not months and months of play, banking small (or any) wins.

But this ain't a real, physical roulette wheel though, is it - it's software. Same as fruit machines are not weights, measures and reels anymore; they're software too.

I really don't need to "run anything past" you, or anyone old chap. In the highly unlikely event that I ever have a flutter on roulette (as I very occasionally have done), it'll be on a real, physical wheel thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:08 
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Sleepyhead

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Yeah, but wander through casinos often enough and you'll see those big streaks a lot.

Also, you can't put 0 in your side of the stats. 0 is, for these purposes, over 18*





* Maybe that's where Rolf got confused

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:11 
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Curiosity wrote:
Yeah, but wander through casinos often enough and you'll see those big streaks a lot.

Also, you can't put 0 in your side of the stats. 0 is, for these purposes, over 18*





* Maybe that's where Rolf got confused


I can't (and won't) argue with what you've seen with your own eyes, Curio. :)

I do take issue with not counting zero though, since although not a win it's still a different outcome to all 12 consecutive numbers being high (and non zero) which is what happened - same as if it'd been 12 reds or 12 blacks. As far as I'm concerned, this is valid mathematically speaking.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:18 
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Sleepyhead

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It's mathematically valid for the numbers that you saw; it's also irrelevant for the odds of you winning. The same as not counting, say, 28 in your odds, just because it wasn't hit.

Like if you have a 20 sided die and win on anything below 11. If it rolls 20 twice in a row you've seen a 1 in 400 event, but the chance of you losing both was still 1 in 4.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:21 
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Curiosity wrote:
It's mathematically valid for the numbers that you saw


Indeed, which is all I'm claiming mate and is, in fact, my entire point.
(Precisely the same odds as getting 12 reds or 12 blacks on the trot as well, as you of course appreciate).

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:29 
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Sleepyhead

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Cavey wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
It's mathematically valid for the numbers that you saw


Indeed, which is all I'm claiming mate and is, in fact, my entire point.
(Precisely the same odds as getting 12 reds or 12 blacks on the trot as well, as you of course appreciate).


Yes, but it's not the same as the odds of you losing.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:37 
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Yes, that's right. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:52 
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Cavey wrote:
Yeah, I get it mate, I'm not totally daft. In my profession I use maths and everything likes. ;)

My point is (other than to give people a laugh at my expense - deservedly), you can't get playing it much safer than a 5p starting stake on a roulette table, thereby budgeting for up to 12 losing ~50/50 spins on the bounce. As I've said, the fact remains that the chances of something like this happening on a physical roulette table is (at least) 4000:1 (and actually more like 1:5690 when the zero is accounted for also, which did not come up in the running order btw).

I mean really, 1:5690? You pick a number between 1 and 6000, and I've got to guess it correctly? Shit, we'd be playing that game for a month and I wouldn't get it. It's about the same odds as correctly picking one card correctly from a deck of 52, then doing it AGAIN, and THEN flipping heads on a coin. Yeah, it's possible, but you really ain't gonna do it. Bear in mind, also, as I've said, that this happened within 20 mins or so, not months and months of play, banking small (or any) wins.

But this ain't a real, physical roulette wheel though, is it - it's software. Same as fruit machines are not weights, measures and reels anymore; they're software too.

I really don't need to "run anything past" you, or anyone old chap. In the highly unlikely event that I ever have a flutter on roulette (as I very occasionally have done), it'll be on a real, physical wheel thanks.


They're not 50/50 spins though, as the 0 is a loss either way, which is where the house edge comes from and which is what makes your numbers wrong.

1/5690 isn't that long odds, random numbers do weird things all the time.

There's no difference between a real physical wheel and a software reel run by a reputable casino using a reputable software provider - the odds are identical in all scenarios.

If you're that good at maths you should know full well that Martingale is a thoroughly awful roulette 'system' and not worth entertaining with any real cash, and makes no difference to the RTP whatsoever :p


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 21:07 
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Hearthly wrote:
They're not 50/50 spins though,


Indeed, hence the use of "~"

Quote:
as the 0 is a loss either way,


Yeah, so what? No-one is talking about probability of LOSS, merely the probability of WHAT HAPPENED (see multiple posts above).

It's easier to picture 12 consecutive reds or blacks, than 12 consecutive numbers above 18, which is why I drew the analogy, but they're all mathematically the same. Again as stated repeatedly, yet I still need to clear this up, apparently...

Quote:
which is where the house edge comes from and which is what makes your numbers wrong.


I mean seriously, NO SHIT SHERLOCK the zero is where the house edge comes in? Fuck me, do you take me for a flipping idiot? Fucks sake man!

Oh, and my numbers are not "wrong", they are right (ironically enough, despite your lecturing me here in quite the most patronising manner imaginable). NO-ONE IS TALKING ABOUT ODDS OF WINNING, ODDS OF LOSING OR RTP. JUST THE ODDS OF GETTING 12 REDS/BLACKS ON THE TROT. OK?

Quote:
1/5690 isn't that long odds, random numbers do weird things all the time.


:roll:
Fuck me.

Quote:
There's no difference between a real physical wheel and a software reel run by a reputable casino using a reputable software provider - the odds are identical in all scenarios.


No shit!

Quote:
If you're that good at maths you should know full well that Martingale is a thoroughly awful roulette 'system' and not worth entertaining with any real cash, and makes no difference to the RTP whatsoever :p


No-one said it made any difference to RTP. I didn't even say it was a good system at all, in fact the whole point of the OP was to take the piss out of myself and (hopefully) give people a laugh. Okay? 'Kay.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 21:11 
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:DD

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 21:34 
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EvilTrousers

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Cavey, Cavey, Cavey. I tried one of Hearthly's systems.

Basically the technique is (and you have to follow this carefully) spunk all your money in a fruit machine then smash your car to fuck with a rock.

Guaranteed winnings*

Seriously though there is a really good bit in Bad Science about probability which explains how the run you had can happen and frequently does even though it seems improbable.

* not an actual guarantee, the value of your car may fall after using this technique.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 21:35 
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Cavey wrote:
No-one said it made any difference to RTP. I didn't even say it was a good system at all, in fact the whole point of the OP was to take the piss out of myself and (hopefully) give people a laugh. Okay? 'Kay.


Well it read to me like you were questioning the chances of what happened to you actually happening and/or implying there was a difference between a physical wheel and a properly simulated software wheel, and 4000/1 is not 'tiny odds'.

If you've had a lapse after 12 years and are a bit cross then fair enough, but there's no need to get all hostile about it.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 21:38 
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Trousers wrote:
Cavey, Cavey, Cavey. I tried one of Hearthly's systems.

Basically the technique is (and you have to follow this carefully) spunk all your money in a fruit machine then smash your car to fuck with a rock.

Guaranteed winnings*

Seriously though there is a really good bit in Bad Science about probability which explains how the run you had can happen and frequently does even though it seems improbable.

* not an actual guarantee, the value of your car may fall after using this technique.


>:(

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 21:57 
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Sleepyhead

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Bloody hell.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 22:06 
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Curiosity wrote:
Bloody hell.


They were not the best of times.


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