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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:54 
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Just watched to E5, its a good show.

Not sure why HBO feel the need to have tits and arse in almost every episode though.

Maybe thats why its a premium channel :)


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:04 
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I'm still really enjoying this.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:32 
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Episode 7: The Game Is On! I can see things getting very messy now, even messier than before.

Incidentally I noticed on Wiki that screenplay for episode 8 has been written by the author of the books, the only episode of the 10. Perhaps because he's the only one that can handle the incoming shitstorm.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:40 
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spoodie wrote:
Episode 7: The Game Is On!
Certainly in the excessive nudity stakes!


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 13:10 
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Interested now.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 13:11 
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Unless you mean Sean's Bean.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 14:03 
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Still really enjoying it.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 15:16 
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As an avid reader of the first three books (didn't read the 4th as I couldn't be arsed to wait 7 years for it), I must watch this.

Stupid Virgin not carrying Sky Atlantic.

:(

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:29 
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Gilly wrote:
Oh also, what is the guy who plays the man in the Kings court who owns the whorehouse been in before?


Queer as folk is where I know him from.

ALSO: This is pretty great. I've been wanting to read the books for ages now, they're on THE LIST. The series is meant to be very close to the books, with GRRM even writing 1 episode a season. So maybe I won't have to bother? ;) But I downloaded the whole thing over the weekend and watched them with the GF. Annoyingly, I must have downloaded Ep7 an hour after it was put up for downloading, or something, so now I have to wait a week. I CANNOT WAIT. I must know what happens to the gammy legged Seen-been.


On-topic-off-topicness: Brandon Sanderson, author of best books ever and something to do with the wheel of time but I haven't read that so I don't care, once wrote an article on his site about 'HATING' Tolkein.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:03 
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GRRM has written the next episode I believe

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
there are rumours of a diversion from the book sometime soon, which I expect will come in the next episode.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 16:41 
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MaliA wrote:
Still really enjoying it.

Yup. It's got a number of annoying flaws but I'm having such a generally good time that I can forgive it with not much more than a reproachful "REALLY, Game Of Thrones?" in the moment. The last two episodes have both been dynamite, to the point that I barely noticed that neither of my two favourite characters had appeared in Episode 7.

In the sixth episode, did anyone else spot that
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
the guy who represented Tyrion in the trial-by-combat was "Robson And" Jerome Flynn?

I certainly didn't. My wife, on the other hand...

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 16:47 
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The imp is by far my favorite character


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 23:21 
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Sublime: http://arrestedwesteros.tumblr.com/

(spoilers)


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:37 
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MaliA wrote:
The imp is by far my favorite character

He's my favourite character in the books.

I still haven't bloody watched this. I assume I'll be waiting for the DVD boxset >:|

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:47 
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I like it, but I do think there is starting to be too much nakedness....Also, it's a bit sick and pervy. I find it uncomfortable viewing, at times.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:57 
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flis wrote:
I like it, but I do think there is starting to be too much nakedness....Also, it's a bit sick and pervy. I find it uncomfortable viewing, at times.

It's based on a set of fantasy novels. Fantasy novels tend, by and large, to be sick and pervy. GoT in particular has a lot of sex and unpleasantness in it. Sometimes not even at the same time.

Also "too much" nakedness? I don't recognise this as a concept.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:58 
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The faux-lesbian scene in this weeks episode was well past the line of good taste and into "for the sake of it" territory, IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:59 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
The faux-lesbian scene in this weeks episode was well past the line of good taste and into "for the sake of it" territory, IMO.

Who and who? I don't recall any faux lesbianism until book 3 or 4.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:03 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Who and who? I don't recall any faux lesbianism until book 3 or 4.
The scene was:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
two of Littlefinger's prostitutes (one of whom was, I think, Roz, from Winterfell) practising on each other in the background while he alternated between berating them for being rubbish and waxing lyrical about his ambitions. The idea for the scene I can understand, the point was his complete lack of interest in the whores as anything other than a moneymaking object was underscored nicely. But the camera kept doing unnecessary lingering and really rather explicit shots of the girls writhing and moaning. Like I said, to me, it felt gratuitous.


(this is a very minor spoiler, with no significant plot details)


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:05 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Who and who? I don't recall any faux lesbianism until book 3 or 4.
The scene was:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
two of Littlefinger's prostitutes (one of whom was, I think, Roz, from Winterfell) practising on each other in the background while he alternated between berating them for being rubbish and waxing lyrical about his ambitions. The idea for the scene I can understand, the point was his complete lack of interest in the whores as anything other than a moneymaking object was underscored nicely. But the camera kept doing unnecessary lingering and really rather explicit shots of the girls writhing and moaning. Like I said, to me, it felt gratuitous.


(this is a very minor spoiler, with no significant plot details)

Ah, I see.

Well, I tend to agree with you then. Why would they even be doing that?

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:07 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Why would they even be doing that?


See: Fantasy novel.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:10 
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kalmar wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Why would they even be doing that?


See: Fantasy novel.

Heh - the irony given that I'd made the same comment.

Still, even within the bounds of the fantasy novel, they tend to at least have a thin reason for things. Two prozzies aren't start going to lex it up with each other unless they're being paid.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:11 
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Shrug, you're the expert mate :hat:


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:12 
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kalmar wrote:
Shrug, you're the expert mate :hat:

Heh.

Hang on... you didn't mean on fantasy novels, did you?

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:14 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
The faux-lesbian scene in this weeks episode was well past the line of good taste and into "for the sake of it" territory, IMO.

Yeah, it's this sort of thing that gets on my nerves. See also: the Dothraki, and the previously mentioned Fat People = Useless And/Or Morally Bankrupt idiocy. Like I said, in general I'm finding it really entertaining but there's enough stupid exploitative reactionary shit (and enough WALLS OF EXPOSITION) to stop me wholehartedly loving it.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:16 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
MaliA wrote:
The imp is by far my favorite character

He's my favourite character in the books.

I still haven't bloody watched this. I assume I'll be waiting for the DVD boxset >:|



Just torrent it?

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:19 
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rodders wrote:
Yeah, it's this sort of thing that gets on my nerves. See also: the Dothraki, and the previously mentioned Fat People = Useless And/Or Morally Bankrupt idiocy. Like I said, in general I'm finding it really entertaining but there's enough stupid exploitative reactionary shit (and enough WALLS OF EXPOSITION) to stop me wholehartedly loving it.


In fairness, in a medieval type setting the fat chaps are quite likely to be the indolent greedy ones, as a whole (see: any member of the clergy). Also, isn't it only the evil eunuch council adviser spy chap who's fat?

Also also, to be fair, most historical type dramas on telly these days have a fair bit of sexy sexy see The Tudors, Rome etc.

Also also also: the WALLS OF EXPOSITION would be annoying in a book, of course, but the lack of a narrator in the telly series means that I'd fully expect some explanation from the characters as to who is who and what the fuck's going on. The books are fucking huge, and the setting is vast and detailed, so I'm not in the least bit surprised

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Just torrent it?
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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:23 
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Rodafowa wrote:
See also: the Dothraki
I don't mind the Dothraki portrayal. It's true they are a thinly veiled version of the Mongols, but I like how the leader bloke is clearly very taken with the queen woman and open-minded about her challenging their traditions.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:39 
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I just watch some of it and think "Wow, whoever wrote this had real issues." They only seem to do it doggy style, whether they're simulating rape or 'love making' and it's all quite demeaning and there doesn't seem to be any actual need for the constantly aggressive nature of the sex scenes. They're all at it with their brothers and sisters and whilst I get that some of it is about keeping bloodlines pure and that some of it is a major part of the plot,
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
I felt aspects of the relationship between the Tygarian (sp.) siblings didn't need to be sexualised, especially as they didn't have an incestuous relationship, what's the point hinting at it?
The sex is used far to much as a means of portraying power in the show and it is getting to be be off-putting.


It's a shame because everything else about it is good, I like the characters and the relationships between them. I'd probably FF the sex scenes but Ramsea would probably cry :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:45 
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flis wrote:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
I felt aspects of the relationship between the Tygarian (sp.) siblings didn't need to be sexualised, especially as they didn't have an incestuous relationship, what's the point hinting at it?


ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
If you mean the Lannister twins, they do have an incestuous relationship. It's a pretty fundamental bit of the ongoing plot.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:53 
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No, Flis means Daenerys and Viserys Targaryen. Although there was a throwaway line from Cersai which mitigated flis's point a little:

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"The Talgaryens married brothers and sisters for hundreds of years to preserve their bloodline!"


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:01 
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flis wrote:
I just watch some of it and think "Wow, whoever wrote this had real issues." They only seem to do it doggy style, whether they're simulating rape or 'love making' and it's all quite demeaning and there doesn't seem to be any actual need for the constantly aggressive nature of the sex scenes.

Yeah, it's definitely going for a Deadwood-esque commentary on how sex and sexuality are used to oppress women, but unlike Deadwood it's trying to have its cake and eat it by making the sex scenes titilating for the viewer (as well as repeatedly using sexy-sexy time to EXPOSITION DUMP all over the screen).

My issue with the Dothraki isn't the characters or the obvious Ghengis Khan parallel (blimey, if I had a problem with thinly-veiled metaphor or parallel I wouldn't last long in the fantasy/sci-fi genre!), it's the fact that it's the only place you're seeing non-white characters in the series and they're playing straight to the trope of non-Western people as savages who're "Closer To The Land" than people in more "civilised" cultures. It's tired and cliché and mildly offensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:04 
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Isn't that lovely?

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If you liken the 7 kingdoms to Europe, then it makes sense no?

They wouldn't have been many non whites in Europe in the Medieval Times!

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:06 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Also the lesbian scene was to "teach" the prostitute from Winterfell how to fuck properly.


ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
We also learnt that he doesn't want to have sex with anyone apart from Ned's wife, and that's why he perhaps betrayed him at the end of the last episode


Only a spoiler if you haven't seen the last episode on sky atlantic

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:16 
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Re: Dothraki

I haven't really seen any race contetations involving the way their society is portrayed, I viewed it more as a society in which to the alpha male go the spoils and everyone else picks the scraps up (see the issue about the ponytails). I reasoned to myself that the reason the other kingdoms were afraid of them is that they represented the way of life that they have so struggled to move from. I suppose representing the wilder side of things which the civilised rulers of the kingdoms were keen to avoid as best they could, given that none of the kings have seemed to be particularly good at fighting. This ties in with the "north of the wall" issues they have, and not wanting to cross it, and keeping the seven kingdoms together.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:17 
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You're missing the point on both fronts, Malc. For one, there were plenty of non-white advanced societies in the world; the Egyptians were building pyramids when the Europeans were still trying not to starve to death. There's no reason Game of Thrones couldn't draw on that stuff for a change and give the Dothraki some knowledge or tech that the Westeros folk don't understand. For example, the stirrup was invented in Asia and the Romans had no knowledge of it; it didn't arrive in Europe until Asians imported the design hundreds of years later.

For two, your explanation of the plot in that scene (which I've already acknowledged in an early post) in no way justifies the overdone lingering shots of naked flesh and female-tennis-player grunting soundtrack.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:35 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
your explanation of the plot in that scene (which I've already acknowledged in an early post) in no way justifies the overdone lingering shots of naked flesh and female-tennis-player grunting soundtrack.

Honestly, I think that sort of thing is self-justifying. /teenager

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:35 
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Isn't that lovely?

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I did think it was a crap scene, but it did make sense in explaining the sort of man that he is. I just thought it was badly done.

As for the Dothraki, if you take them as Mongols pushing West across Europe, then it does make sense.

Yeah, there are other races that could have been used, but if that's what the author/producer wanted to convey they wouldn't choose to use them.

How many non-Europeans have attacked Northern Europe through History? (I'm excluding the Moors attacking Spain/Portugal here)

Malc

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:41 
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vikings. They came in boats, not hordes.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:42 
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Isn't that lovely?

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MaliA wrote:
vikings. They came in boats, not hordes.


They're European.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:43 
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Rodafowa wrote:
flis wrote:
I just watch some of it and think "Wow, whoever wrote this had real issues." They only seem to do it doggy style, whether they're simulating rape or 'love making' and it's all quite demeaning and there doesn't seem to be any actual need for the constantly aggressive nature of the sex scenes.

Yeah, it's definitely going for a Deadwood-esque commentary on how sex and sexuality are used to oppress women, but unlike Deadwood it's trying to have its cake and eat it by making the sex scenes titilating for the viewer (as well as repeatedly using sexy-sexy time to EXPOSITION DUMP all over the screen).

My issue with the Dothraki isn't the characters or the obvious Ghengis Khan parallel (blimey, if I had a problem with thinly-veiled metaphor or parallel I wouldn't last long in the fantasy/sci-fi genre!), it's the fact that it's the only place you're seeing non-white characters in the series and they're playing straight to the trope of non-Western people as savages who're "Closer To The Land" than people in more "civilised" cultures. It's tired and cliché and mildly offensive.

It's exactly what happened in the book though. As malc has pointed out, the Seven Kingdoms is Europe, and the stuff over the Shining Sea or whatever it is is the Middle and Far East. The Dothraki are, and are supposed to be, Mongol-esque. It's all party of Dinarys's character development later on - driven by the contrast between her and her whiney brother's regal background and the culture of the big bad horse botherer she ends up getting given to. A culture which she ends up buying into, and then
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
basically exporting back to Westeros when she invades


In the book you see the Dothraki's interactions with the other pseudo-Arab civilisations over there, most of which are vastly, vastly more advanced than the Kingdoms. And all of whom are looked down on (and pounded on) by the Dothraki. I presume they haven't got round to them yet.

The Seven Kingdoms are viewed by most other civilisations as being a bit backwards, although that obviously hasn't become clear as yet in the telly version. But in any case, the individuals within it who are the main characters of the books (and presumably the telly series) are largely execrable, and when there's a
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
civil war
later the way the common folk are treated by all sides is a real insight into the values (or lack thereof) at the heart of the Kingdoms.

I really don't see where the offense can come from here, unless you're looking for it very hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 13:56 
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Malc wrote:
If you liken the 7 kingdoms to Europe, then it makes sense no?

They wouldn't have been many non whites in Europe in the Medieval Times!

1) It's not medieval Europe, it's a fantasy story.

2) I understand both what the real-world inspiration for the Dothraki is and what their thematic purpose in the story seems to be. But if the only place you're seeing people who aren't white is as part of the group who're are representing the wild, untamed cultural id that, to me, is both a little icky and a lot of a cliché.

The net result is that in this series we're only being shown people who aren't white as hootin' hollerin' unruly savages with natural rhythm who can only be kept in line by force, whose gatherings look like a cheap strip club and if given the chance would come over here and rape all our women. I don't want to make it sound more serious than it is, or like it's some sort of premeditated hate crime that's being carried out to Keep Darkie Down but it does impact my enjoyment of the series to a degree and I think it's worthy of comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 14:00 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
It's exactly what happened in the book though. I really don't see where the offense can come from here, unless you're looking for it very hard.

Honestly, I don't really care what happens in the book. I'm judging what I've seen, as would the vast majority of the people watching.

I don't see how you can't see why it's a bit offensive, unless you're trying very hard not to understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 14:05 
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Rodafowa wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
It's exactly what happened in the book though. I really don't see where the offense can come from here, unless you're looking for it very hard.

Honestly, I don't really care what happens in the book. I'm judging what I've seen, as would the vast majority of the people watching.

I don't see how you can't see why it's a bit offensive, unless you're trying very hard not to understand.

No, I can't see why it's offensive. TV adaptation is done of a book. Adaptation leaves out, due to the exigencies of the medium, some bits of the book. End result is that a dark-skinned culture rides around on horses, generally being scary and awesome, but other dark-skinned cultures aren't (as yet) part of the TV series. If that dark-skinned culture (and the culture is bloody intrinsic to later plot developments) had been changed, as Doc G has suggested, not only would fans of the books be spitting blood, you'd have cocked up the plot.

You really do have to want that to be offensive. Particularly as the one white-skinned culture portrayed is largely populated by ghastly cunts. Just wait until the white-skinned islander culture comes into it - they make the Dothraki look like tea-sipping ladies what lunch.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 14:08 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Rodafowa wrote:
Malc wrote:
If you liken the 7 kingdoms to Europe, then it makes sense no?

They wouldn't have been many non whites in Europe in the Medieval Times!

1) It's not medieval Europe, it's a fantasy story.

2) I understand both what the real-world inspiration for the Dothraki is and what their thematic purpose in the story seems to be. But if the only place you're seeing people who aren't white is as part of the group who're are representing the wild, untamed cultural id that, to me, is both a little icky and a lot of a cliché.


But it's based on Medieval Northern Europe...

Malc

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 14:15 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
No, I can't see why it's offensive.

I've explained it in really small words, chap. But we've been down this road often enough to know that there's probably no benefit for either of us in belabouring this point any further. So, agree to disagree or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 14:17 
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Rodafowa wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
No, I can't see why it's offensive.

I've explained it in really small words, chap.


Weeeeelll, no. In all fairness what you've done is just repeat "this is offensive" in progressively more patronising (or just exasperated :)) terms but yeah, agree to disagree. :)

Quote:
But we've been down this road often enough to know that there's probably no benefit for either of us in belabouring this point any further. So, agree to disagree or whatever.


Indeed.

Anyway - I'll be interested to watch this to see how they've dealt with the stuff Over There with the Taragyens in the absence of their original benefactor and his city.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 15:33 
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I'm massively offended that the Wildling people are clearly meant to be Scottish.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 16:18 
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Yay! I just found this streamed online. Score!

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 Post subject: Re: Game Of Thrones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 17:42 

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I think both the Dothraki and the naked womens are proper ace.


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