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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 15:57 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Zardoz wrote:
Kern wrote:
Katie tightens her ring.

She has old looking hands.


You should see the picture in her attic...


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 17:55 
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Quote:
"A bride's worst nightmare is looking down and seeing her ring has fallen off.


If this is true, a bride needs to get a life.

Why is this a news story, exactly? What could they follow that kind of exposé with, "Woman returns dress to shop" EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 17:58 
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Closer than you think, torygraph had a SHOCKING REVELATION yesterday. Kate has apparently commissioned three wedding dresses. I did not read the article in case I accidentally saw the comments section.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 19:36 
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Hopefully I'm down to work on this day so I don't have to see any of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 15:41 
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Ticket to Ride World Champion

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You know it isn't mandatory viewing, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 18:02 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
You know it isn't mandatory viewing, right?


Have you been to the english media before?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 19:01 
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Gogmagog

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Decca wrote:
Closer than you think, torygraph had a SHOCKING REVELATION yesterday. Kate has apparently commissioned three wedding dresses. I did not read the article in case I accidentally saw the comments section.


You can buy a wedding dress from china for $189.If you buy 6, they are only $169 each.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 19:04 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
You know it isn't mandatory viewing, right?


I should include the fact that the radio, TV, papers and <spits>public will all be going on about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 19:11 
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Unpossible!

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I for one will delight in the fact that it's not mandatory and will be exercising my right to do something else.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 23:21 
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DavPaz wrote:
I for one will delight in the fact that it's not mandatory and will be exercising my right to do something else.


As there are local elections in the 'Ford that day, I probably will end up being given a ballot paper for the referendum along with the one for the councillors. I still don't know what I'm going to do. Not long to go now.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:24 
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That's some good looky-liking.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:28 
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baron of techno

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Trooper wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
Kern wrote:
Katie tightens her ring.

She has old looking hands.


You should see the picture in her attic...


Do you think she's secretly some kind of evil witch or something? That would be awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:29 
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Mr Russell wrote:
Hopefully I'm down to work on this day so I don't have to see any of it.
Amusingly, I am in an actual wedding that day, so will be spared.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:47 
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DavPaz wrote:
I for one will delight in the fact that it's not mandatory and will be exercising my right to do something else.

I might sit around depressively contemplating British peoples' unfortunate and negative habit of bowing and scraping to an aristocratic überclass that despises them, whilst telling my girlfriend how lucky she is to be citizen of a republic. Whilst she tries to concentrate on writing her MSc dissertation. Or perhaps it'll be a nice day and we'll actually leave the house and do something pleasant. Who knows?!


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:49 
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Anonymous X wrote:
I might sit around depressingly contemplating British peoples' unfortunate and negative habit of bowing and scraping to an aristocratic überclass that despises them


Yeah, I'm not sure that there's actually anyone in the country that does this. Unless they work at the palace and are, like, paid to.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:50 
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Christine wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:
I might sit around depressingly contemplating British peoples' unfortunate and negative habit of bowing and scraping to an aristocratic überclass that despises them


Yeah, I'm not sure that there's actually anyone in the country that does this. Unless they work at the palace and are, like, paid to.

I meant figuratively rather than literally, natch.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:51 
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I always enjoy the articles you get in the 'Grauniad' from time to time where life-long ardent socialists who have spent their life raging against the system write about how they decided to accept a gong despite their beliefs. cf Lord Prescott.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:53 
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Anonymous X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:
I might sit around depressingly contemplating British peoples' unfortunate and negative habit of bowing and scraping to an aristocratic überclass that despises them


Yeah, I'm not sure that there's actually anyone in the country that does this. Unless they work at the palace and are, like, paid to.

I meant figuratively rather than literally, natch.


Then I'm not sure what 'figuratively bowing and scraping' means. Other than that it doesn't mean 'bowing and scraping'.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 14:57 
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Christine wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:
I might sit around depressingly contemplating British peoples' unfortunate and negative habit of bowing and scraping to an aristocratic überclass that despises them


Yeah, I'm not sure that there's actually anyone in the country that does this. Unless they work at the palace and are, like, paid to.

I meant figuratively rather than literally, natch.


Then I'm not sure what 'figuratively bowing and scraping' means. Other than that it doesn't mean 'bowing and scraping'.

Well, not being in favour of a republic, then, if you want simpler, more direct language.

Yeah, I'm shit at writing prose, get over it.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 15:02 
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I wouldn't worry - James Joyce made a career out of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 15:05 
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sinister agent wrote:
I wouldn't worry - James Joyce made a career out of it.


:DD


Except for 'the Dubliners', which is awesome (but don't begin with the first story as it's rather odd and a bit off-putting until you've got the hang of the style of the work).


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 15:24 
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Anonymous X wrote:
Well, not being in favour of a republic, then, if you want simpler, more direct language.

Yeah, I'm shit at writing prose, get over it.


Well, that was my point. You're equating 'not being in favour of a republic' with some weird perception of a negative 'untermensch' attitude. Which is nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 15:29 
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People do still seem to actually and not figuratively bow and curtsey when confronted by the queen.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 19:54 
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Gogmagog

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sinister agent wrote:
I wouldn't worry - James Joyce made a career out of it.


It really, really, fucks some people off when you remind them he isn't Irish.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:09 
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I find the tone of this article in the 'Observer' a tad patronising, both to the Missourians and to us:

Quote:
Crowds in Missouri flock to an exhibition about Princess Diana and parties are planned for William and Kate's wedding day. It's like the war of independence never happened…


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:16 
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Referendum campaign material received so far:

1. Official booklet from the Electoral Commission with silhouettes of the public which reminds me of 'Protect and Survive' for some reason. Thanks for telling me that 'campaginers in the referendum will explain why they think you should vote yes (to use the 'alternative vote' system') or no...'.

2. Leaflet from NotoAV saying that 'none of your taxes have been used to print this leaflet'. Its headline, 'Keep One person, one vote' is misleading: AV is an instant run-off system, so each recount is, in effect, a new poll with readjusted preferences so each person still has one vote. Big picture of Nasty Nick Clegg on the back cover.

I'm eagerly (?) awaiting the 'Yes' campaign stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:50 
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The 'No' leaflet came through with the Conservative councillor's election conspectus. It says "Your first choice could count as much as someone's fifth choice".


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 17:01 
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MaliA wrote:
The 'No' leaflet came through with the Conservative councillor's election conspectus. It says "Your first choice could count as much as someone's fifth choice".


Which is only really bad for the guy whose previous choices had little support. But wouldn't you be happy if someone, deep down, preferred your candidate to your opponents? Bit of an odd argument.

By the way, remember that you don't have to rank all of the candidates.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 19:02 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
The 'No' leaflet came through with the Conservative councillor's election conspectus. It says "Your first choice could count as much as someone's fifth choice".


Which is only really bad for the guy whose previous choices had little support. But wouldn't you be happy if someone, deep down, preferred your candidate to your opponents? Bit of an odd argument.


The problem I have with the arrangement is (which ties into your other comment) as follows:

There are 5 parties with manifestos policies which, in your opinion, range from the awesome to the terrible.

You vote for Candidate A, who, in your view best represents your views, beliefs and outlook, as a first preference.
Candidate B is pretty much 80% of Candidate A, so you mark him down as second choice, however there exists something in the manifesto that really doesn't sit right with you, but the rest of it is OK.
Candidate C, the same, and so on and so forth, but decrease the level of what you consider to be 'acceptable' as regards policies and whatnot.

My fear is, and I consider it to be a proper one, is that people will rank all candidates, from 1-5 and then candidate 3 gets in through being the third best choice "If we can't have X or Y, then we might as well have Z". And I don't think that is an accurate representation of democracy. I'll probably be able to articulate this to you better come next week or so, but the hang-up I have over the whole thing is that those that want to change the system stand most to benefit from such a change.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 19:10 
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MaliA wrote:
My fear is, and I consider it to be a proper one, is that people will rank all candidates, from 1-5 and then candidate 3 gets in through being the third best choice "If we can't have X or Y, then we might as well have Z". And I don't think that is an accurate representation of democracy. I'll probably be able to articulate this to you better come next week or so, but the hang-up I have over the whole thing is that those that want to change the system stand most to benefit from such a change.


That's not how it works. Your third place choice is only counted if your first and second choices are eliminated from the race as a result of them not getting enough votes.

AV isn't a compromise vote. It's a vote that allows you to support minority candidates without losing all ability to express a preference between majority candidates.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 19:17 
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Gogmagog

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Christine wrote:
MaliA wrote:
My fear is, and I consider it to be a proper one, is that people will rank all candidates, from 1-5 and then candidate 3 gets in through being the third best choice "If we can't have X or Y, then we might as well have Z". And I don't think that is an accurate representation of democracy. I'll probably be able to articulate this to you better come next week or so, but the hang-up I have over the whole thing is that those that want to change the system stand most to benefit from such a change.


That's not how it works. Your third place choice is only counted if your first and second choices are eliminated from the race as a result of them not getting enough votes.


Apologies, I didn't articulate that terribly well. My fear is that people will say "Well, if Candidate A doesn't get in, then I think Candidate B would be the next best option, and if not them, then Candidate C". I suppose my problem lies within people, rather than the system.

Christine wrote:
AV isn't a compromise vote. It's a vote that allows you to support minority candidates without losing all ability to express a preference between majority candidates.


I'm completely on board with that, just somewhat suspicious of it.

What would happen if Party A stood 2 candidates for election in a constituency, with an instruction of "Vote for A, then B"?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 19:30 
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But with AV you don't HAVE to express a preference for 2nd choice, do you?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 19:35 
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Gogmagog

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Mr Russell wrote:
But with AV you don't HAVE to express a preference for 2nd choice, do you?


My fear is that people will.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 19:38 
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Gogmagog

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MaliA wrote:
Mr Russell wrote:
But with AV you don't HAVE to express a preference for 2nd choice, do you?


My fear is that people will.


Insofar as

"i'd like A, but B wouldn't be so bad, would it, and C as a third"

Where B and C are quite the opposite of A.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 20:11 
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But people are doing that now, except by tactical voting. They're saying "I really like A, but let's face it, he'll never get in. Same for B, really. So I guess I vote C to stop D getting in."

And voila: the two-party system.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 20:16 
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Christine wrote:
But people are doing that now, except by tactical voting. They're saying "I really like A, but let's face it, he'll never get in. Same for B, really. So I guess I vote C to stop D getting in."

And voila: the two-party system.


But because everyone thinks that, the same old people kept getting in. I mean turnout is about what, 20-25%?

It was only through those fucking EXCELLENT live TV debates that we got anything close to a change this time around.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 20:47 
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Gogmagog

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Mr Russell wrote:
It was only through those fucking EXCELLENT live TV debates that we got anything close to a change this time around.


I'm going to side with Baron Mandelson, of Foy in the County of Herefordshire and of Hartlepool in the County of Durham and agree with him that the TV debates did really take valuable time and energy away from the real campaign of going door to door and what-not. I think they were a waste of time.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 20:49 
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You loon.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 20:57 
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MaliA wrote:
I think they were a waste of time.


Not as a big a waste of time as the 90 minutes I spent in a Virginian motel watching the US Vice-Presidential debates in 2008. Other than that, the politics geek in me was loving touring that state during the last month of the US election campaign. I'll never forget the huge crowds in Petersburg around the Democrats' stand, and the more or less complete lack of interest in the Republicans.

As for our ones, I only saw one and I can't actually remember much about it. I suppose it helped raise interest in the campaign in a way that party political broadcasts fail to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 21:07 
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MaliA wrote:
The 'No' leaflet came through with the Conservative councillor's election conspectus. It says "Your first choice could count as much as someone's fifth choice".


Oursfrom the 'no' people came through a few weeks ago. It was basically "NICK GCLEGG IS SATAN ALL IS HIS DOING AV IS WHAT HE WANTS OOGA BOOGA SAY NO".

Quite pathetic. Even the BNP leaflets that come around in election years are more mature and rational.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 21:11 
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I know someone who is going to vote 'yes' on basis that they don't like David Cameron and as Mr Cameron doesn't like AV it must therefore be right to support it. Oh dear.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 21:58 
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Kern wrote:
I know someone who is going to vote 'yes' on basis that they don't like David Cameron and as Mr Cameron doesn't like AV it must therefore be right to support it. Oh dear.
Who the fuck likes him? I've always assumed that even the staunchest of Tory supporters feel sick when they look at him. Same with George Osborne, although that might just be because he looks like a babyfaced Gordon Brown :spew:

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 14:25 
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Image


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 14:30 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Image
The conversation around that on b3ta was very useful & insightful funny as fuck :DD
http://www.b3ta.com/board/10391777

EDIT: In fact most of the challenge entries are amusing. http://www.b3ta.com/challenge/yesornotoav/popular

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 15:30 
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Zardoz wrote:
Is Kate Middleton fit or do the Royal low breeds she stands next to make her appear fit by comparison?

She's quite fit, but a bit skinny for my liking. She needs a bit more meat in on her. I just hope that the Windsors don't drive her potty like the others.

There's too much talk about the merits of Audio Visual in here - I think that AV and Kate's fitness should have been given separate threads.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:52 
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Warhead wrote:
There's too much talk about the merits of Audio Visual in here - I think that AV and Kate's fitness should have been given separate threads.


It's a joint thread because I can't decide which Event of National Importance I'm most excited by. I'm hoping to be drying my dishes with my commemorative tea towels listing the proof of Arrow's Impossibility Theorem for years to come, not to mention telling my grandchildren where I was on these two grand state occasions.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:10 
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Wullie wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Image
The conversation around that on b3ta was very useful & insightful funny as fuck :DD
http://www.b3ta.com/board/10391777

EDIT: In fact most of the challenge entries are amusing. http://www.b3ta.com/challenge/yesornotoav/popular


Megalol on this image.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 14:51 
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Is it just me, or outside of forum people and the odd person interested in politics, is nobody really interested or even aware of what all this means?

A fair few people don't even seem to have any idea that there's a referendum coming. Which wouldn't be that surprising given the indifference most people have to politics beyond blaming everything on blacks/poors/bankers/[insert party], but this isn't exactly a little thing we're referendumating about.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 14:55 
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Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
sinister agent wrote:
Is it just me, or outside of forum people and the odd person interested in politics, is nobody really interested or even aware of what all this means?


Not just you.
I think the problem is that the question isn't seen as critical enough by the majority of the populace, in the way that a vote on the EU would be.

I still think that we ought to have a vote on any reformed House of Lords, because that would be a substantial change in our legislative process which really shouldn't be just left to the Commons to decide upon.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 15:12 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 6496
The Conservative canvasser who knock on our door to big up the local candidate could barely be bothered to talk about the referendum - either she didn't care, or it was seen as lower priority than getting their guy on the district council, or so many other people didn't care she didn't bother with me.

I wonder if a lot of people see it as a fairly "theoretical" question that won't really affect them.


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