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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:11 
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Yeah, I'm all on board with ignoring Resurrection (that can fairly easily be explained away as Ripley was a clone in that anyway) but ignoring Alien 3 (which is such an underrated movie in the Director's workprint form) is criminal.

What might be interesting though, is if this new film starts and ends on the Sulaco, and they come up with a way of making it obvious that there's a facehugger on board, then Alien 3's main "plot hole" of "how was there a facehugger on the Sulaco when the Queen was blasted out of the airlock*" would be resolved.

They'd need Hicks and Newt back, though.

* The fan theory that the Queen carries eggs with her and leaves them on board doesn't wash with me, on account of being a shit idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:15 
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In fairness, it's an Aliens plot hole, because of the post-credits bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:19 

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There's a post credits bit in Aliens?

I was fairly impressed with the plot of the Alien: Isolation game. For the most part it made perfect sense without needing to retcon anything and would work as the basis of a decent Alien movie.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:26 
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Zio wrote:
There's a post credits bit in Aliens?

I think Grim...'s referring to the sound of a facebugger scurrying around on the Sulaco after the credits have finished. I always forget about that, mainly because I no longer watch any of the credits apart from the first minute or so thanks to that theme at the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:28 
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Yeah, it's only audio.



Skip to 2:20ish.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:28 
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It doesn't actually say they'll be rendering 3 & Resurrection non-canon, just that they'll be setting at after Aliens, which *might* render the others non-canon. Obviously Ripley would be way too young in 3, which fucks things up a bit, but unless they kill her off it's still feasible that they could insert this film in the middle.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:08 
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GazChap wrote:
Zio wrote:
There's a post credits bit in Aliens?

I think Grim...'s referring to the sound of a facebugger scurrying around on the Sulaco after the credits have finished. I always forget about that, mainly because I no longer watch any of the credits apart from the first minute or so thanks to that theme at the end.


Hah! I never about this and the fact that someone remembers a 2 second sound bite is awesome to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:09 
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Gazchap and I are a little obsessed.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:13 
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How does that change things? I have watched the Alien films but I don't know enough about them for that to mean something to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:17 
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It means there's a Facehugger on the Sulaco while they're hibernating on the way home.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:18 
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GazChap wrote:
Zio wrote:
There's a post credits bit in Aliens?

I think Grim...'s referring to the sound of a facebugger scurrying around on the Sulaco after the credits have finished.


I always thought it was the sound of an egg opening ?


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:20 
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Grim... wrote:
It means there's a Facehugger on the Sulaco while they're hibernating on the way home.


Meaning that Ripley, Newt or Hicks should be impregnated by the start of Alien 3?


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:23 
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Which Ripley was.

[edit]Er, spoiler

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 13:31 
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Some of the designs like the alien armour thing worry a bit but still might be fun. Who cares about continuity?

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 13:39 
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Derek The Halls wrote:
Who cares about continuity?

*reads last couple of pages*

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 13:42 
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Derek The Halls wrote:
Who cares about continuity?


*internet explodes*


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:17 
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Film critic shows Aliens to a group of 11 year olds

http://www.rogerebert.com/mzs/watching- ... ch-of-kids

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Notes on watching "Aliens" for the first time again, with a bunch of kids

For his 11th birthday, my son asked if he could have a slumber party. He invited seven other fifth-grade boys. They played video games for a couple of hours, ate pizza, then said they wanted to watch a movie. They'd seen every comic book movie multiple times. Seen all the Indiana Jones films. Star Wars. Anything with a hobbit in it. The usual 11-year old boy options, circa 2015, weren't going to work.

So I suggested "Aliens," thinking, "Well, it's exciting, and even if they haven't see the first one, the movie tells the story well enough that you won't be confused about who Ripley is and what's at stake for her."

They agreed (some of them had seen the first one anyway, and nearly all had seen at least one film with a xenomorph in it) and so we watched it together. And as we watched, I realized again that while unfortunately you can't see a great movie again for the first time, the next-best thing is to show it to people who've never seen it.

My first time with James Cameron's sci-fi war movie was a great filmgoing experience. I saw "Aliens" at the NorthPark 1 and 2 theater at NorthPark Mall in my hometown of Dallas, with a high school classmate who was, at that time, my regular action movie-watching buddy: Gabe Michaels. We drove to NorthPark to catch the 11 a.m. show on opening day and got in line a couple of hours early. We'd already drunk a bit of soda beforehand and I think we might have downed some more while standing in line. When we got into the theater, they seated us immediately and there was only one preview, for "The Fly," and then wham, they started the movie. Neither Gabe nor I nor anyone else who'd been standing in that line wanted to get up from our seats and answer nature's call, even though we all pretty desperately had to; there was a lot of muttering and shifting in seats, quite a few "grin and bear it" expressions.

If you've seen the film, you know there are no aliens to speak of for the first hour, then suddenly there are aliens all over the place, coming out of the walls and ceiling, drooling and shrieking and dragging Marines off into the darkness to be cocooned. It's one of the greatest releases of built-up tension in action film history. Throughout this sequence the audience was enthralled, screaming as the xenomorphs attacked, cheering as Ripley took control of the all-terrain vehicle to rescue the imperiled Colonial Marines. Then when the ATV crashed through the wall, the music stopped, and Hicks told her she'd blown the trans-axle and need to "ease down, Ripley, ease down," everyone collectively seemed to realize they were being given a breather, so at that point Gabe and I and probably a fifth of the audience rose from our seats and headed for the bathrooms: fast-walking, some running.

Guys at the urinals were peeing as fast as they could because they didn't want to miss another minute of "Aliens." You'd have thought somebody was timing them. Like this was the Olympic qualifying round for the bladder evacuation team. But they weren't going fast enough to suit a guy standing near the front door of men's room. He yelled, "Goddammit! All of you, piss faster!"

And that's when I knew "Aliens" was going to be a hit.

Anyway, the slumber party: all kids seemed to agree that "Aliens" was a good suggestion because even though it had aliens in it, it wasn't just trying to scare you, like the first "Alien." "It's basically an action movie, that's what I've heard," one of my son's friends said. Another seemed just a little bit scared, maybe, and kept suggesting other viewing options, including "Guardians of the Galaxy," "Dr. Who," and (for some reason) "Saturday Night Live."

We watched "Aliens" anyway. It went over well. The biggest challenge was dissuading kids from trying to predict every single thing that was going to happen. This is a generation of talkers. They have to comment on everything. No thought can go unexpressed. Maybe this was true when I was a kid as well (I honestly don't remember), but rather than endlessly correct them I decided to just roll with it, exercising my slumber party guardian veto power during scenes that I felt pretty sure would enthrall them if they would just shut up for five minutes (I was rarely proved wrong in my guesses). But it was a sharp crowd, and for the most part the movie went over quite well, for an analog-era science fiction spectacular that's turning 30 next year.

One boy said that Ripley in her hyper sleep chamber looked like Sleeping Beauty. As this was an intentional reference on writer-director James Cameron's part (there's a Snow White reference an hour later) this seemed like a promising note on which to begin the screening. "I like the way this looks," one said. "It's futuristic but it's old school. It's almost steampunk." "This is like Team Fortress 2," another remarked. "Dude, shut up, this was made like 20 years before Team Fortress 2," said the kid next to him. "This is, like, every science fiction movie ever made," another said, as Ripley operated the power loader for the first time.

"This movie has so many cliches in it," a boy said when Colonial Marines disembarked the drop ship and made their way through rainy darkness to enter the alien-infested colony. My son told him, "This movie was made in 1986. It invented all the cliches." Another of his friends was impressed by the "personal data transmitters" implanted in the colonists—impressed that someone had thought of that back in 1986.

The first big jump of the night was the face hugger in the tank trying to "kiss" the evil yuppie Burke. All eight kids flipped out. One screamed. The second big jump of the night was the "please kill me" woman. Half the boys watched her through the cracks between their fingers.

They liked Ripley, Hicks, Frost, Apone, Bishop the android, and even Hudson, whose defeatism irritated them so much that I think they would've hated him if he weren't so funny. "Somebody shoot that guy," one said. Frost insisting that "it doesn't matter" when the "poontang" is Arcturian confused a couple of kids. "It means he's bisexual," one explained.

The cigar-chewing Sgt. Apone's oddly musical phrase "assholes and elbows" got the biggest laugh of the evening; two hours and twenty minutes later, the kids were quoting it as they brushed their teeth. Frost's quip, "What are we supposed to use, man, harsh language?" made my son laugh for nearly a full minute.

During the final alien assault (where they come through the ceiling panels!) a boy half-hidden under a blanket said, "I would commit suicide if I were in this position."

Vasquez was the MVP of the movie. I think all eight boys might have a little bit of a crush on her. When she pinned a xenomorph to a wall with her combat boot and blew its brains out, one exclaimed his delight with profanity, then apologized to me for it. Another boy said Vasquez reminded him of "this lady who works at Costco." He didn't say which Costco. There was a wave of applause for Lt. Gorman and Vasquez holding hands as they blew themselves up. ("She died like a boss," one said.)

There was general agreement amongst the boys that they would like to see a separate film of Newt surviving for weeks on the planet full of aliens. The final duel between the queen mother alien and Ripley in her power loader was a big hit. The boys applauded both combatants' tactics, especially Ripley blocking the queen's tongue-mouth jabs with her blowtorch. ("This is like boxing, except it's slower and they're both wearing armor.")

At bedtime there was some discussion of whether an army of predators could beat an army of aliens. The issue was never resolved. The boys had trouble settling down because every few minutes somebody would plant a palm on somebody's face or grab a toe. At one point, post-screening discussion was hijacked by a science minded boy describing his idea for an "acid-proof Colonial Marine uniform."

"There could be face huggers hiding under the couch right now," one said after a while. There was laughter at this. Then silence. Then stray nervous chuckles. Then a longer silence.

The boy who earlier had suggested alternatives to "Aliens" asked the first boy to "just shut up about the face huggers."

I very rarely wish I could be 11 again, but for these kids, I'm making an exception.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:20 
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11?!

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:21 
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Grim... wrote:
11?!


Yeah, that was my first though. I'm fairly sure at 11 I'd have been fucking terrified of Aliens!


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:22 
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Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
11?!


Yeah, that was my first though.

That doesn't make it any better.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:23 
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I first saw it around that age in a caravan in Devon. It was on ITV and my Dad let me stay up late to watch it on the 14" portable telly we had there.

It was scary but not so much that I wet the bed or couldn't sleep after.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:24 
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Future Warrior wrote:
I first saw it around that age in a caravan in Devon. It was on ITV and my Dad let me stay up late to watch it on the 14" portable telly we had there.

It was scary but not so much that I wet the bed or couldn't sleep after.


What caused that, then?

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:25 
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Grim... wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
11?!


Yeah, that was my first though.

That doesn't make it any better.


:DD


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:25 
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Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
11?!


Yeah, that was my first though. I'm fairly sure at 11 I'd have been fucking terrified of Aliens!


Yes I think 11 is somewhat young but it is a tricky one to pass judgement on other cultures.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:43 
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11 may or may not be fine, depending on the kids - I'd be hoping he'd checked with the other kids' parents before showing them a film like Aliens at that age though.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 13:04 
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By 11, I'd seen Alien, Aliens, The Fly, multiple Nightmare On Elm Street films, various Halloweens, Robocop, and more. My mum was... not responsible.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 13:05 
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Making that sort of decision for your own kid is quite a bit different to making that decision for someone else's kids though.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 13:13 
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I just looked it up. Aliens was an 18 on release, re-rated to a 15 in 2010. I wonder how close it was to getting a 12. 12s can be pretty nasty these days (citation: The Dark Knight pencil-in-eye antics.)


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 13:45 
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Future Warrior wrote:
I first saw it around that age in a caravan in Devon. It was on ITV and my Dad let me stay up late to watch it on the 14" portable telly we had there.

It was scary but not so much that I wet the bed or couldn't sleep after.

I first saw it on ITV also. I think I was about 9. Scared the shit out of me :D


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 13:47 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I just looked it up. Aliens was an 18 on release, re-rated to a 15 in 2010. I wonder how close it was to getting a 12. 12s can be pretty nasty these days (citation: The Dark Knight pencil-in-eye antics.)

12s are only allowed one use of the word "fuck", so they'll have to change that first.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 13:52 
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Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I just looked it up. Aliens was an 18 on release, re-rated to a 15 in 2010. I wonder how close it was to getting a 12. 12s can be pretty nasty these days (citation: The Dark Knight pencil-in-eye antics.)

12s are only allowed one use of the word "fuck", so they'll have to change that first.

Where did you read that? BBFC guidelines state:

Quote:
The BBFC's Guidelines state that strong language (e.g. 'f***') may be passed at 12 or 12A, depending on the manner in which it is used, who is using the language, its frequency and any special contextual justification. Aggressive uses of strong language may result in a film or DVD being placed at the 15 category. There is some allowance for puns on strong language at this category.
There may be moderate language (e.g. uses of terms such as ‘bitch’ and ‘twat’ at 12 or 12A).

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/what-classification/12a-and-12

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 13:52 
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Apart from the chestburster and the language, I can't think of anything in Aliens that is particularly unsuited to modern children (and by that, I mean children that live in a world where The Avengers and other superheroes pummel their way through a variety of bad guys and alien creatures, causing endless property damage and threat to human life.)

I snuck in behind my brothers while they were watching RoboCop on a crappy VHS copy. I was about 6 at the time I seem to remember. They caught me when I shrieked during Murphy's execution, and even today I still remember my thoughts that day whenever I rewatch that scene.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 14:14 
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Future Warrior wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I just looked it up. Aliens was an 18 on release, re-rated to a 15 in 2010. I wonder how close it was to getting a 12. 12s can be pretty nasty these days (citation: The Dark Knight pencil-in-eye antics.)

12s are only allowed one use of the word "fuck", so they'll have to change that first.

Where did you read that? BBFC guidelines state:

Quote:
The BBFC's Guidelines state that strong language (e.g. 'f***') may be passed at 12 or 12A, depending on the manner in which it is used, who is using the language, its frequency and any special contextual justification. Aggressive uses of strong language may result in a film or DVD being placed at the 15 category. There is some allowance for puns on strong language at this category.
There may be moderate language (e.g. uses of terms such as ‘bitch’ and ‘twat’ at 12 or 12A).

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/what-classification/12a-and-12


I think it's the USA PG13 that has the one-fuck rule for dialog, so films are edited to suit that, and then passed as a 12A in the UK. There wouldn't be much point adding in a bit of extra swearing outside America.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 14:21 
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Ah yeah, I was yankee-ing it up. My bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 14:59 
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It's such a stupid rule anyway. If the idea is not to expose younger children to bad language, then you don't use it at all.
The idea that they won't pick up on it if it's only used once is delusional, especially as it's normally saved for at a key moment of the film.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 15:10 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
It's such a stupid rule anyway. If the idea is not to expose younger children to bad language, then you don't use it at all.
The idea that they won't pick up on it if it's only used once is delusional, especially as it's normally saved for at a key moment of the film.


I've personally found that my children are much more likely to pick up on something I don't want them to hear if I only say it once. :DD

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 15:36 
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Jem wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
It's such a stupid rule anyway. If the idea is not to expose younger children to bad language, then you don't use it at all.
The idea that they won't pick up on it if it's only used once is delusional, especially as it's normally saved for at a key moment of the film.


I've personally found that my children are much more likely to pick up on something I don't want them to hear if I only say it once. :DD


My GF's son would always pick the single most inappropriate bit of a song's lyrics to fixate upon and repeat. Often loudly, and completely out of context without the music.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 15:40 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Jem wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
It's such a stupid rule anyway. If the idea is not to expose younger children to bad language, then you don't use it at all.
The idea that they won't pick up on it if it's only used once is delusional, especially as it's normally saved for at a key moment of the film.


I've personally found that my children are much more likely to pick up on something I don't want them to hear if I only say it once. :DD


My GF's son would always pick the single most inappropriate bit of a song's lyrics to fixate upon and repeat. Often loudly, and completely out of context without the music.

FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 15:51 
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DavPaz wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Jem wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
It's such a stupid rule anyway. If the idea is not to expose younger children to bad language, then you don't use it at all.
The idea that they won't pick up on it if it's only used once is delusional, especially as it's normally saved for at a key moment of the film.


I've personally found that my children are much more likely to pick up on something I don't want them to hear if I only say it once. :DD


My GF's son would always pick the single most inappropriate bit of a song's lyrics to fixate upon and repeat. Often loudly, and completely out of context without the music.

FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!


On reflection, listening to RATM in the car might not have been the best choice.... :this:


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 18:33 
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Aliens would be an R in the states. So kids could totally go to the cinema and watch it as long as a parent/guardian is present


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 19:24 
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The rumormill days that Biehn might return as Hicks.

So, um, someone has told them that they're all really old now, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 19:39 
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They could chalk it up to the hypersleep chambers malfunctioning, they age but very slowly... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 19:44 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Maybe 3 is a dream (we've seen dream sequences in the films already) and they've been drifting for a very, very long time?

I saw alien when I was babysitting for a family, and they had recorded it off the tv.

I imagine I was about 14.

I saw aliens shortly afterwards.

I really enjoyed both of them...

Malc

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 21:06 
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GazChap wrote:
They could chalk it up to the hypersleep chambers malfunctioning, they age but very slowly... ;)

Yeah, I thought about that. They'd be suffering from some serious muscle atrophy, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 21:07 
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Although it would give them excuse to stick a hot Newt into the mix, though :)

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 21:34 
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Unpossible!

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Grim... wrote:
Although it would give them excuse to stick a hot Newt into the mix, though :)

With the mind of a 10 year old


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 21:52 
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Yeah, not convinced a hot Newt would really fit in, thematically ;)

Interestingly though, I always knew that Carrie Henn has only ever appeared on the big screen in Aliens, but what I *didn't* know was that her brother, Christopher, played Newt's brother Timmy, who didn't appear in the theatrical release - but also went on to never appear in anything else ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 22:41 
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First time I saw Alien was on a PGL type holiday - pretty sure it was when I was 10 or 11.
We also watched The Warriors and Saturday 14th, all of which were totally inappropriate for primary school age kids.


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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:26 
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GazChap wrote:
Interestingly though, I always knew that Carrie Henn has only ever appeared on the big screen in Aliens, but what I *didn't* know was that her brother, Christopher, played Newt's brother Timmy, who didn't appear in the theatrical release - but also went on to never appear in anything else ever.

Yo trivia skillz be whack, fewl. Next you'll be telling my you don't know what the "illegal alien" line was about.

DavPaz wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Although it would give them excuse to stick a hot Newt into the mix, though :)

With the mind of a 10 year old

Point.

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 Post subject: Re: Alien and Aliens
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:48 
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Grim... wrote:
Yo trivia skillz be whack, fewl. Next you'll be telling my you don't know what the "illegal alien" line was about

Nah, I know that one :P


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