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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:18 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian site. Read a couple of pages of them on that Milne article, and the latest Greenwald pro-Assange diatribe, and it's like staring into the abyss. That so many people are utter conspiracy theorist tinfoil hat-wearing loonbuckets is quite disturbing. They're as mad as a box of them hallucinogenic poison frogs wot've been dipped in heroin and spent all day licking each other.

Are we really this thick as a nation?

Then again millions of people watch X Factor, so I guess the answer's yes.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:21 
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You're the one reading Glenn Greenwald, bud.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:25 
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Craster wrote:
You're the one reading Glenn Greenwald, bud.

Up until now I read Milne for the comments, as there are often some entertaining antis. I haven't read Greenwald until today. Still don't know who he is, other than "that bloke who's nuttier than a squirrel's poo".

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:38 
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Gogmagog

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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian site. Read a couple of pages of them on that Milne article, and the latest Greenwald pro-Assange diatribe, and it's like staring into the abyss. That so many people are utter conspiracy theorist tinfoil hat-wearing loonbuckets is quite disturbing. They're as mad as a box of them hallucinogenic poison frogs wot've been dipped in heroin and spent all day licking each other.

Are we really this thick as a nation?

Then again millions of people watch X Factor, so I guess the answer's yes.


The Grauniad and Assange had a spat of sorts, though, didn't they? I forget what it was over, now, but if memory serves, it was quite vitriolic.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:39 
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Something to do with his biography...and him being a nutter.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:54 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian any site.

I keep telling myself this on an almost daily basis, however I still find myself scrolling down, reading one or two by accident and looking away suddenly with a pained expression on my face - as if I've just walked in on my gran in the bath.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 13:01 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian any site.

I keep telling myself this on an almost daily basis, however I still find myself scrolling down, reading one or two by accident and looking away suddenly with a pained expression on my face - as if I've just walked in on my gran in the bath.

Heh. The only two websites I read semi-regularly are the Graun and El Reg. The Register's commenters are, by and large, not too bad. And include Chinny! But yes, in the round, I agree with you.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 13:07 
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Gogmagog

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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian any site.

I keep telling myself this on an almost daily basis, however I still find myself scrolling down, reading one or two by accident and looking away suddenly with a pained expression on my face - as if I've just walked in on my gran in the bath.

Heh. The only two websites I read semi-regularly are the Graun and El Reg. The Register's commenters are, by and large, not too bad. And include Chinny! But yes, in the round, I agree with you.


I agree with Kissyfur.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 16:55 
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MaliA wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian any site.

I keep telling myself this on an almost daily basis, however I still find myself scrolling down, reading one or two by accident and looking away suddenly with a pained expression on my face - as if I've just walked in on my gran in the bath.

Heh. The only two websites I read semi-regularly are the Graun and El Reg. The Register's commenters are, by and large, not too bad. And include Chinny! But yes, in the round, I agree with you.


I agree with Kissyfur.

Look what I've found:

Safari
Chrome
Firefox


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 22:43 
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Great (and long) post by David Allen Green exploding the legal myths surrounding the court cases - http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david ... an-assange

Full of those pesky "fact" things, which has led to the free speech lovin' Saint Julian of Assange blocking DAG on Twitter.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 14:25 
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Gogmagog

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Assange a bit peaky and could do with a nice walk around the park. And an ice cream. or something. Don't arrest him, please, he's poorly.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:21 
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I will admit to laughing when I heard the howls of outrage by those who had stood bail for him and were told to pay up.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:44 
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Loved the government's response that "of course you can have medical treatment if you come out. We're not stopping you getting treatment. It's just that we'll arrest you as well."

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:51 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Loved the government's response that "of course you can have medical treatment if you come out. We're not stopping you getting treatment. It's just that we'll arrest you as well."


Oh, lovely.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:33 
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The "Arbitary detention" thing is ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:37 
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MaliA wrote:
The "Arbitary detention" thing is ridiculous.

Pretty much what I think.

Ot's almost as if they're saying that the rape allegation against him shouldn't be investigated.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:41 
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I understand the arbitrary detention thing as he has been effectively under house arrest despite claiming asylum in Ecuador and being at their embassy, yet not allowed to travel there.

He should still have to go to Sweden and face the charges/allegations; waiting out the statute of limitations on a charge in this way is dodgy AF.

I don't think we want to be defying the UN on this though, as it will weaken our case when we appeal to them on human rights grounds.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:42 
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Gogmagog

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He's chosen to be there to avoid arrest, though.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:47 
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Gogmagog

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I mean, it isn't as if he was being chased by the police and climbed a ladder up to a tree house and thumbed his nose at the police who then took the ladder away now, is it? That'd be arbi-tree. Ha ha. But seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:58 
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I've never been able to understand why he says he won't go to Sweden in case the US takes the opportunity to extradite him from there, when the same risk exists here.

Still, just noted the date of earlier parts of this thread. What happened to that Milne guy, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:00 
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Curiosity wrote:
I understand the arbitrary detention thing as he has been effectively under house arrest despite claiming asylum in Ecuador and being at their embassy, yet not allowed to travel there.



But that argument is just wrong - he's not not allowed to travel there. He's perfectly entitled to leave the embassy and travel to an airport. It's just that there's an entirely lawful arrest warrant that can be exercised on him whilst he's on the way to the airport.
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He should still have to go to Sweden and face the charges/allegations; waiting out the statute of limitations on a charge in this way is dodgy AF.

But that's the point - that precise situation (that he has to go to Sweden as there's a warrant for his arrest and extradition) is what the UN are using as the reason he's being arbitrarily detained in a by now rather smelly embassy.

I absolutely think we should defy the UN on this, as it's fucking nuts and based on no sound legal principles that exist on earth or, indeed the actual fucking facts they're opining on*. I'd be hugely interested in who makes up this particular UN body, and what political viewpoints or vested interests they have ( e.g. anti-West). After the whole "let's make being mean to Islam a criminal offence" idea coming out of the UN working group I'm very suspicious of a lot of what they get up to in the "pontificating on stuff” arena.


*I do need to have a read of their decision in detail, though. 

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:01 
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Kern wrote:
Still, just noted the date of earlier parts of this thread. What happened to that Milne guy, eh?

Heh, yes. :) A perfect fit, there.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:03 
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Whenever I want a cheap laugh, I always look at the membership of the UN Human Rights council. It's almost beyond satire.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:10 
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Sleepyhead

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Heh


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:18 
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:D

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:20 
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Gogmagog

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Curiosity wrote:
Heh


Superb.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:41 
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MrChris wrote:
I'd be hugely interested in who makes up this particular UN body, and what political viewpoints or vested interests they have ( e.g. anti-West). After the whole "let's make being mean to Islam a criminal offence" idea coming out of the UN working group I'm very suspicious of a lot of what they get up to in the "pontificating on stuff” arena.
Sounds like they are mostly attacking the Swedish prosecutors:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/f ... of-liberty

Quote:
Much of the criticism in the full report is directed at the methods adopted by the Swedish prosecutors.
The report states: “There has been a substantial failure to exercise due diligence on the part of the concerned states (Sweden and UK) with regard to the performance of the criminal administration ... After more than five years of time lapse, [Assange] is still left even before the stage of preliminary investigation with no predictability as to whether and when a formal process of any judicial dealing would commence.
“Despite that, it is left to the initial choice of the Swedish prosecution as to what mode of investigation would best suit the purpose of criminal justice, the exercise and implementation of the investigation method should be conducted in compliance with the rule of proportionality, including undertaking to explore alternative ways of administering justice.”


Out of the five person panel, one person recused themselves because they are Australian and so is Assange (wtf) and one of the other five dissented. So this is a 3/5ths opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:52 
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Thanks Doc, I’ll have to have a read of that. But even from that quote there, their reasoning seems rather muddled. “There has been a substantial failure to exercise due diligence on the part of the concerned states (Sweden and UK) with regard to the performance of the criminal administration “ – so the High Court, Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court having examined this in detail is not sufficient due diligence? “After more than five years of time lapse, [Assange] is still left even before the stage of preliminary investigation with no predictability as to whether and when a formal process of any judicial dealing would commence.” – yes, but that’s because Assange fled arrest in Sweden and then jumped bail and fled arrest here.

I’m not sure what else the states involved should have done.

However, I'm sure a proper read of their decision will prove illuminating.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:11 
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Well, it's a (probably hastily written) précis, so the muddling may be the fault of the Guardian. Perhaps the report is more clear.

At least attacking the Swedish prosecution processes makes some vague sense, I suppose. No idea how credible the criticisms are though.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:13 
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Breaking news on the telly just said the UK will formally contest this, as opposed to just ignoring it, which sounds interesting.


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