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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 16:47 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
The Vienna Convention says a lot less than most people assume it does.


Article 22 seems pretty clear:

Quote:
1.The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter
them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.
2.The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises
of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the
mission or impairment of its dignity.
3.The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of
transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.


ETA: Mr Kissyfur wins!

I'm always wary about reading something in to Article X without reading the other Articles A - Z. We don't know, for example, that Article 23 doesn't say that Article 22 doesn't apply if you're harbouring someone against whom the state has valid grievances who has no other connection with your state.


Wise words. However, Article 43 adds, in effect, "we really really mean article 22, even if the ambassador has got a sex slave factory in there.". I do this work so you don't have to.

Even if the "furnishings" are a nuclear bomb? We should totally do this in Argentina.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 16:49 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
However, bear in mind that here we're talking about a dispute between the UK and Ecuador. I fancy our chances. We completely beat them at the Olympics.


To be honest I'm not worried about Ecuador specifically, more the fact that a move like this might devalue our diplomatic standing to the point that the next time some banana republic explodes into a military coup or whatever that the aggressors in question just storm our embassy with an attitude of 'fuck the UK, they demonstrably don't give a shit about diplomatic agreements anyway so why should we care about their rights here' rather than stopping to think about it for a while (which might end up saving lives). Or, to make a slightly less hysterically dramatic example, someone seeking refuge in a UK embassy overseas gets pulled out of there by the local government because we've undermined our own ability to claim that privilege with this nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 16:51 
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From what little I know about diplomatic immunity (hey I have watched lots of American TV), its the Diplomatic Pouch that is unstoppable, so all they have to do is get a nice big 6ft pouch for him to climb into before transport?

I am a fricking genius

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 16:52 
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The answer must therefore be to promote kangaroos to be your nation's ambassadors.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 16:53 
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Bamba wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
However, bear in mind that here we're talking about a dispute between the UK and Ecuador. I fancy our chances. We completely beat them at the Olympics.


To be honest I'm not worried about Ecuador specifically, more the fact that a move like this might devalue our diplomatic standing to the point that the next time some banana republic explodes into a military coup or whatever that the aggressors in question just storm our embassy with an attitude of 'fuck the UK, they demonstrably don't give a shit about diplomatic agreements anyway so why should we care about their rights here' rather than stopping to think about it for a while (which might end up saving lives). Or, to make a slightly less hysterically dramatic example, someone seeking refuge in a UK embassy overseas gets pulled out of there by the local government because we've undermined our own ability to claim that privilege with this nonsense.

I see your point, and agree with it to an extent. Bear in mind, though, that our embassies don't even give refuge to UK citizens in local trouble.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 16:53 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Slightly Green wrote:
From what little I know about diplomatic immunity (hey I have watched lots of American TV), its the Diplomatic Pouch that is unstoppable, so all they have to do is get a nice big 6ft pouch for him to climb into before transport?

I am a fricking genius

That would be someone tactless, seeing as it was climbing into pouches that got him into this mess.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 16:54 
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Craster wrote:
The answer must therefore be to promote kangaroos to be your nation's ambassadors.

I thought they handled the court side of things?

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 16:54 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
However, bear in mind that here we're talking about a dispute between the UK and Ecuador. I fancy our chances. We completely beat them at the Olympics.


To be honest I'm not worried about Ecuador specifically, more the fact that a move like this might devalue our diplomatic standing to the point that the next time some banana republic explodes into a military coup or whatever that the aggressors in question just storm our embassy with an attitude of 'fuck the UK, they demonstrably don't give a shit about diplomatic agreements anyway so why should we care about their rights here' rather than stopping to think about it for a while (which might end up saving lives). Or, to make a slightly less hysterically dramatic example, someone seeking refuge in a UK embassy overseas gets pulled out of there by the local government because we've undermined our own ability to claim that privilege with this nonsense.

I see your point, and agere with it to an extent. Bear in mind, though, that our embassies don't even give refuge to UK citizens in local trouble.

They do, however, give out lots of Pimms to expats on the queens birthday, so swings and roundabouts.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 23:26 
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Good summary, here.

http://pme200.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/assange.html

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:17 
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Galloway's an idiot.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:27 
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Plissken wrote:


Excellent blog post.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:31 
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Curiosity wrote:
Plissken wrote:


Excellent blog post.

You're very unlikely to get hits from a legitimate blog post. The internet shuts down and protects itself.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 
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MaliA wrote:
Galloway's an idiot.

This is news, how?


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Galloway's an idiot.

This is news, how?


I feel the need to reaffirm my views.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:41 
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He's mentally ill. I heard a bit of that podast, and could just imagine him sat in a room on his own, shouting at his increasingly spittle-flecked microphone, waving his arms around as if to fend off the very Great Satan itself.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:44 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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MaliA wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Galloway's an idiot.

This is news, how?


I feel the need to reaffirm my views.

Whatever Galloways latest ravings are, they find themselves redirected to the part of my brain that just says 'Galloway is being a dick'. He's such a parody of himself that I can't get as angry with him as a sitting MP about comments as I do with a Republican candidate over the pond who did the same. Odd, but scary.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:21 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Letter about Galloway in the Metro today, which made a lot of sense and had good points in it from a woman in a rape counseling service/thing, which was then punctuated by the statement (paraphrased as I can't remember exactly) "Rape is defined as non-consensual sex with a woman"
I'm sorry, what? This is the same paper that had a story about a 14yr old boy being raped in manchester.

The whole story seems to be bringing out the idiots on all sides...


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:43 
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If I were in charge, I'd arrange to charge JA with the leak of secret documents that were really quite dull, and ignore the rest of them. That way, his supporter's can't be grumpy, as what Mr Smith likes for dinner isn't the US being stompy on poor people's heads, and they can still execute him, as it is spying or whatevers. Everyone's a winner. After he goesto Sweden and faces arrest and trial. And serves his sentence there. Trips across the Atlantic should be soemthing to look forward to.

Following on from this victory, I'd rebuke Ecuador in some public fashion for wanting to play with the big boys. I'd invade it and donate it to Sweden.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:36 
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Vote for MaliA.

There's the usual grumpy leftwing twat Milne's defence of Assange and Ecuador in the Graun today. That man would support any regime as long as it hated the West.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:39 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Vote for MaliA.

There's the usual grumpy leftwing twat Milne's defence of Assange and Ecuador in the Graun today. That man would support any regime as long as it hated the West.


Yeah, I read that, too.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:39 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Vote for MaliA.

There's the usual grumpy leftwing twat Milne's defence of Assange and Ecuador in the Graun today. That man would support any regime as long as it hated the West.


Anti-Cornwall sentiment is everywhere these days.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:51 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Vote for MaliA.

There's the usual grumpy leftwing twat Milne's defence of Assange and Ecuador in the Graun today. That man would support any regime as long as it hated the West.



Actually, I'd have walked in there the day after the nice letter was sent and said:

"We warned you, you're fucking about with our justice ssytem, something which is important to us. You're behaving like knobs. He's already skipped bail which was paid for by other people, had a trip around the court systems of the land and now he's done a runner. If he's happy to use the justice system when it suits him, he has no complaints when it finds against him. You can either shut the fuck up, or there'll be a couple of submarines off you coast by nightful as a reminder. It's got nothing to do with his business, it's to do with his actions regrading two women in Sweden, so climb down off that high horse, or we'll show you what real first world repression is. Starting in Quita". And then be done with it.

EDIT: So pretty much that cartoon Gaywood's been hawking around at most opportunities.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 13:14 
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wha...?


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 13:15 
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This one?

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 13:16 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
wha...?


There's a cartoon that I think you've linked to several times about the inability to keep both issues seperate from each other. If I'm misrememebring I apologise. A bit.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 13:16 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
That man would support any regime as long as it hated the West.


We should really have stopped using 'The East' and 'The West' once we realised that the world was round.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 13:21 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Craster wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
That man would support any regime as long as it hated the West.


We should really have stopped using 'The East' and 'The West' once we realised that the world was round.

It would be a pain in the arse to navigate London though.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 21:32 
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Cover of this week's 'Private Eye' really goes for Assange (and I felt slightly bad about laughing once I worked out the joke)

(No spoilers)


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 21:35 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Kern wrote:
Cover of this week's 'Private Eye' really goes for Assange (and I felt slightly bad about laughing once I worked out the joke)

(No spoilers)

It's not subtle, I'll give it that.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:54 
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Heh.

I love Private Eye. And Ian Hislop.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:18 
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Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian site. Read a couple of pages of them on that Milne article, and the latest Greenwald pro-Assange diatribe, and it's like staring into the abyss. That so many people are utter conspiracy theorist tinfoil hat-wearing loonbuckets is quite disturbing. They're as mad as a box of them hallucinogenic poison frogs wot've been dipped in heroin and spent all day licking each other.

Are we really this thick as a nation?

Then again millions of people watch X Factor, so I guess the answer's yes.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:21 
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You're the one reading Glenn Greenwald, bud.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:25 
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Craster wrote:
You're the one reading Glenn Greenwald, bud.

Up until now I read Milne for the comments, as there are often some entertaining antis. I haven't read Greenwald until today. Still don't know who he is, other than "that bloke who's nuttier than a squirrel's poo".

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:38 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian site. Read a couple of pages of them on that Milne article, and the latest Greenwald pro-Assange diatribe, and it's like staring into the abyss. That so many people are utter conspiracy theorist tinfoil hat-wearing loonbuckets is quite disturbing. They're as mad as a box of them hallucinogenic poison frogs wot've been dipped in heroin and spent all day licking each other.

Are we really this thick as a nation?

Then again millions of people watch X Factor, so I guess the answer's yes.


The Grauniad and Assange had a spat of sorts, though, didn't they? I forget what it was over, now, but if memory serves, it was quite vitriolic.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:39 
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Something to do with his biography...and him being a nutter.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:54 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian any site.

I keep telling myself this on an almost daily basis, however I still find myself scrolling down, reading one or two by accident and looking away suddenly with a pained expression on my face - as if I've just walked in on my gran in the bath.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 13:01 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian any site.

I keep telling myself this on an almost daily basis, however I still find myself scrolling down, reading one or two by accident and looking away suddenly with a pained expression on my face - as if I've just walked in on my gran in the bath.

Heh. The only two websites I read semi-regularly are the Graun and El Reg. The Register's commenters are, by and large, not too bad. And include Chinny! But yes, in the round, I agree with you.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 13:07 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian any site.

I keep telling myself this on an almost daily basis, however I still find myself scrolling down, reading one or two by accident and looking away suddenly with a pained expression on my face - as if I've just walked in on my gran in the bath.

Heh. The only two websites I read semi-regularly are the Graun and El Reg. The Register's commenters are, by and large, not too bad. And include Chinny! But yes, in the round, I agree with you.


I agree with Kissyfur.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 16:55 
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MaliA wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Jesus. I need to stop reading the comments on the Guardian any site.

I keep telling myself this on an almost daily basis, however I still find myself scrolling down, reading one or two by accident and looking away suddenly with a pained expression on my face - as if I've just walked in on my gran in the bath.

Heh. The only two websites I read semi-regularly are the Graun and El Reg. The Register's commenters are, by and large, not too bad. And include Chinny! But yes, in the round, I agree with you.


I agree with Kissyfur.

Look what I've found:

Safari
Chrome
Firefox

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 22:43 
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Great (and long) post by David Allen Green exploding the legal myths surrounding the court cases - http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david ... an-assange

Full of those pesky "fact" things, which has led to the free speech lovin' Saint Julian of Assange blocking DAG on Twitter.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 14:25 
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Assange a bit peaky and could do with a nice walk around the park. And an ice cream. or something. Don't arrest him, please, he's poorly.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:21 
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I will admit to laughing when I heard the howls of outrage by those who had stood bail for him and were told to pay up.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:44 
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Loved the government's response that "of course you can have medical treatment if you come out. We're not stopping you getting treatment. It's just that we'll arrest you as well."

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:51 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Loved the government's response that "of course you can have medical treatment if you come out. We're not stopping you getting treatment. It's just that we'll arrest you as well."


Oh, lovely.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:33 
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The "Arbitary detention" thing is ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:37 
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Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
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MaliA wrote:
The "Arbitary detention" thing is ridiculous.

Pretty much what I think.

Ot's almost as if they're saying that the rape allegation against him shouldn't be investigated.


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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:41 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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I understand the arbitrary detention thing as he has been effectively under house arrest despite claiming asylum in Ecuador and being at their embassy, yet not allowed to travel there.

He should still have to go to Sweden and face the charges/allegations; waiting out the statute of limitations on a charge in this way is dodgy AF.

I don't think we want to be defying the UN on this though, as it will weaken our case when we appeal to them on human rights grounds.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:42 
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Gogmagog

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He's chosen to be there to avoid arrest, though.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:47 
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Gogmagog

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I mean, it isn't as if he was being chased by the police and climbed a ladder up to a tree house and thumbed his nose at the police who then took the ladder away now, is it? That'd be arbi-tree. Ha ha. But seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: The big wikileaks, er, leak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:58 
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I've never been able to understand why he says he won't go to Sweden in case the US takes the opportunity to extradite him from there, when the same risk exists here.

Still, just noted the date of earlier parts of this thread. What happened to that Milne guy, eh?


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