Bioshock Infinite announced

myp · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:08

Assets?

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:28

British Nervoso wrote:

Assets?

Yes!

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

IIRC it did have a pretty good high-res texture pack, I'll see if anything jogs my memory when I play it again. It's all installed and ready to go and has synced back up the cloud, so I'll fire it up when there's literally nothing else in the world that I fancy doing.

Right now, for example, I'm going to make another cup of tea and have a shit whilst reading Custom PC, which is approximately 375% more appealing than playing Bioshock Infinite.

myp · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:43

Grim... wrote:

British Nervoso wrote:

Assets?

Yes!

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Bloody hell it's not very good.

Back in Rapture, woohoo! Get funnelled down a very small sub-section of it (most of which is 'closed for maintenance' or has a doorman standing there who won't let you past), listening to uninteresting monologues from the residents and dreary chat between Booker and Elizabeth, not so woohoo!

There is a 'mission' of sorts which requires you to get a mask from one of three shops in the area, and in each shop you have to talk to the shopkeeper and ask him to talk to Lizzy, then Lizzy distracts him with some inane chatter whilst you rummage around in the back of the shop looking for the mask.

In one of them Booker said 'Where has he hidden that goddamn box'? And you literally just walk around ONE CORNER and it's there on a table in front of you.

Then you get to see crazy old Sander Cohen, woohoo! For about three minutes, not so woohoo!

And then you're dumped into a prison with fuck all in the way of decent weaponry or plasmids or gear, and the grindy shitty Bioshock combat takes over and I got bored quite quickly.

I'll plod through it, but really, not impressed.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 16:02

I think the moral of the story is don't buy season passes.

Esp. if you don't know if you like the game you are buying it for.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Mr Dave wrote:

I think the moral of the story is don't buy season passes.

Esp. if you don't know if you like the game you are buying it for.

I honestly didn't think it was possible to fuck Bioshock up.

Maybe that's overly harsh, it's not a bad game, but next to towering majesty of Bioshock it's dreadfully underwhelming. (Bioshock Infinite the main game that is.)

The DLC on the other hand really is quite poor, I'm in Rapture (well, the Fontaine section which Ryan has turned into a prison) and whilst I know I'm in Rapture, Booker and Lizzy just don't feel like they belong there at all and as such there's a massive disjoint between the characters and the location.

Plus the combat is awful, too many splicers at once turn it into a CoD style shooting gallery, I much preferred the smaller number of far more dangerous enemies as per the original.

EDIT - Oh yes and still no saves, natch.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Mr Dave wrote:

I think the moral of the story is don't buy season passes.

Absolutely this. Anyone who buys one should get the internet equivalent of a bop on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. Season Passes are a terrible idea and encouraging publishers to carry on with them is silly. Even if you're utterly convinced an entire game and it's full catalogue of DLC will be amazing just wait and see. How much money are you really saving, balanced against the risk of sending this terrible message to the publishers that's it's an acceptable business practise?

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16556

Some people are so into CoD or whatever that they just know they are going to end up buying all the DLC, and frankly for the hours they get out of it, it's a cheap deal. So if it's even cheaper that way then they'll obviously buy a season pass. Telling them they should spend extra money because by doing so they are going to be shaping the future of the games industry is a bit ridiculous.

myp · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 17:03

Bamba wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

I think the moral of the story is don't buy season passes.

Absolutely this. Anyone who buys one should get the internet equivalent of a bop on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. Season Passes are a terrible idea and encouraging publishers to carry on with them is silly. Even if you're utterly convinced an entire game and it's full catalogue of DLC will be amazing just wait and see. How much money are you really saving, balanced against the risk of sending this terrible message to the publishers that's it's an acceptable business practise?

I bought one for Gears of War 3, and ended up massively regretting it (the DLC was shite, and the main game wasn't a patch on GoW2). I'd never do it again, as the paltry savings aren't worth the risk that's it's just a couple of multiplayer maps and character skins. Now I just buy the DLC packs I'm interested in (which isn't many).

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Well I've been burned enough now on pre-orders - (Diablo 3 which technically I got for 'free' but only because I signed up to WoW for a year long ahead of its release, and then stopped playing WoW for months.... And Sim City (which does at least now mostly work as intended but it still rubbish because the city size is too small)) - and also Season Passes (Bioshock Infinite) to not bother with either again.

Then again when they work they're ace, I bought the Season Pass for both BL2 and BF3, and both games were absolutely majestic and I got my money's worth out of them many times over and all the DLC was fab.

Done properly I don't think there's anything wrong with a Season Pass, and conceptually it makes sense where it's a game you're sure you'll like and would buy all the DLC anyway, so it's logical to want to save a few quid in the process.

But yeah, Bioshock Infinite has left a sour taste in my mouth, I'm hacked off enough that I paid full price for the game itself, let alone lumbering myself with the Season Pass as well.

In fact I'm loathed to pay full price for games at all now, I've got an eye on Need For Speed Rivals on Origin but I refuse to bite until it hits £20 or less (it hit £30 in the last Origin sale but I didn't buy it).

EDIT - I did buy the Season Pass (or Premium Edition) for BF4, but that game is a total shoe-in so it made sense. And if I'm honest I'll be buying the Season Pass for BL3 when it's inevitably announced. So I've like, sort of learned my lesson, or something.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

British Nervoso wrote:

the main game [GoW3] wasn't a patch on GoW2

No way, man, Gears 3 campaign was bombastic fun whereas Gear 2 was a bit one note.

MENTAL NOTE: ...must remember to start a thread on Gears: Judgement which I've kinda started, but I also want to get stuck into Ni No Kuni.

myp · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 17:44

Saturnalian wrote:

British Nervoso wrote:

the main game [GoW3] wasn't a patch on GoW2

No way, man, Gears 3 campaign was bombastic fun whereas Gear 2 was a bit one note.

I'd just had enough by the time it had finished. There's only so much cover shooter dudebro stuff you can play before it gets boring. The Gears series finished with 3 for me. I have no interest in playing Judgement or any further games in the franchise. See also Halo.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

I can totally understand that. For me, there's been just enough time that's passed since Gears 3 for me to want to play another one. Of them. Gears: Judgement is very VERY pretty though.

Mind you, having said that, I couldn't give two fucks about playing CoD: Ghosts though cause not enough time has passed since the last tedious military shooter.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

So then I'm working my way through the Infinite DLC, pretty much everything is at a premium - guns, ammo, vigors (drinkable plasmids as they're referred to), upgrades, cash, fairly tight on health and Eve, you get the idea. (It also feels like a big step backwards because after getting to the end of the main game being fairly well tooled up with a nicely 'evolved' character and weapon set, you're back to playing a lameass again, and you know the DLC won't last long enough to get him back into any sort of shape again.)

So what would be a REALLY GOOD IDEA to make it all so much more fun? INFINITELY RESPAWNING ENEMIES.

So yes, if you decide to have a little wander around to look for stuff you've missed and go into the 'wrong' room in the process, you'll come back out to find yourself looking at a collection of splicers YOU KILLED ABOUT FOUR MINUTES AGO. It's almost like the game knows it's being shit because it makes sure they all drop enough stuff to kind of put you back to where you were before.

I got fed up with it, and even though I know I've missed the shock jockey vigor/plasmid/whatever in the area I've just been in, I've moved onto the next area anyway, because I can't be arsed killing/dodging all the respawning splicers that I know are waiting for me down there. At least BL2 has the decency to keep enemies dead for as long as you remain in the current area, and they only respawn if you leave and come back, or quit out and reload.

Poor show, it really is.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

markg wrote:

Telling them they should spend extra money because by doing so they are going to be shaping the future of the games industry is totally correct and right-thinking, but because they're slavering idiots who can't see past the end of their own nose they'll ignore the advice and carry on ruining things for themselves and the rest of us.

I'm glad you agree.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

AtrocityExhibition wrote:

Done properly I don't think there's anything wrong with a Season Pass, and conceptually it makes sense where it's a game you're sure you'll like and would buy all the DLC anyway, so it's logical to want to save a few quid in the process.

Right, but that only makes sense if as you say (a) it's a game you're sure you like and (b) you would buy all the DLC anyway. It's literally impossible to be sure of all those things at the point of buying a season pass, and you've been proven wrong on that a couple of times thus far, so you're not making an informed decision to exchange money for goods of an equivalent value you're just gambling your cash against a whole load of unknowns. Which is bonkers enough as a one-off, but every time you do it you send the message to publishers that you'll bend over for the same weird arrangement in future. I mean Christ, we've even now got a situation with season passes which don't include random bits of DLC!

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Bamba wrote:

AtrocityExhibition wrote:

Done properly I don't think there's anything wrong with a Season Pass, and conceptually it makes sense where it's a game you're sure you'll like and would buy all the DLC anyway, so it's logical to want to save a few quid in the process.

Right, but that only makes sense if as you say (a) it's a game you're sure you like and (b) you would buy all the DLC anyway. It's literally impossible to be sure of all those things at the point of buying a season pass, and you've been proven wrong on that a couple of times thus far, so you're not making an informed decision to exchange money for goods of an equivalent value you're just gambling your cash against a whole load of unknowns. Which is bonkers enough as a one-off, but every time you do it you send the message to publishers that you'll bend over for the same weird arrangement in future. I mean Christ, we've even now got a situation with season passes which don't include random bits of DLC!

I kind of take your point but it's not something that overly concerns me, there are far more sinister transgressions in the world of capitalism to worry about than paying a bit too much for some games via uncertain season passes.

Besides which I'd say that buying a PS4 or an XBone is a bit of a gamble at the moment, you're effectively paying top price and laying out hundreds of pounds on the expectation that some decent games will be along in due course, sending the 'message' that it's OK to release consoles with barely complete operating systems and unfinished rehashes of last-gen games that need 10GB+ day one 'patches' (I mean, really, 10GB must be the entire fucking game downloading again) - and no one seems overly bothered by that.

That said I am far more wary about them then I used to be, and I certainly can't see myself pre-ordering and/or getting a season pass for games in the future, but for dead-certs like the Battlefields and the next Borderlands, I probably will. (I know the Season Pass didn't include EVERYTHING for BL2 but it did get you four sizeable chunks of really high quality DLC (entire new zones) along with the level cap increase, anyone who felt short-changed by having to pay extra for the mechro or psycho classes or further extras needs to have their greedy goggles readjusted a bit.)

Trousers · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 3073

AtrocityExhibition wrote:

Besides which I'd say that buying a PS4 or an XBone is a bit of a gamble at the moment, you're effectively paying top price and laying out hundreds of pounds on the expectation that some decent games will be along in due course, sending the 'message' that it's OK to release consoles with barely complete operating systems and unfinished rehashes of last-gen games that need 10GB+ day one 'patches' (I mean, really, 10GB must be the entire fucking game downloading again) - and no one seems overly bothered by that.

No-one? I think there's a quite a few of us not touching them for a bit.

And you're mainly referring to the XboxOne there although the paucity of decent PS4 titles is certainly off putting.

Also you smell of wee.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Trousers wrote:

AtrocityExhibition wrote:

Besides which I'd say that buying a PS4 or an XBone is a bit of a gamble at the moment, you're effectively paying top price and laying out hundreds of pounds on the expectation that some decent games will be along in due course, sending the 'message' that it's OK to release consoles with barely complete operating systems and unfinished rehashes of last-gen games that need 10GB+ day one 'patches' (I mean, really, 10GB must be the entire fucking game downloading again) - and no one seems overly bothered by that.

No-one? I think there's a quite a few of us not touching them for a bit.

And you're mainly referring to the XboxOne there although the paucity of decent PS4 titles is certainly off putting.

Also you smell of wee.

I'm not buying a PS4 right now for a few reasons, some of which AE mentions, but I didn't respond to that because it's got not a thing to do with season passes so I just ignored it as a slightly odd aside.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Bamba wrote:

I'm not buying a PS4 right now for a few reasons, some of which AE mentions, but I didn't respond to that because it's got not a thing to do with season passes so I just ignored it as a slightly odd aside.

It was a reply to your suggestion that buying a season pass is a sort of gambling and sends a terrible message to the publishers and must be condemned in the strongest possible terms

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 29, 2014 14:35

Hypothetical: If you bought a season pass and the publisher never released any content (maybe they changed their mind, or went bust, or something) do you have any legal grounds for a refund?

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

AtrocityExhibition wrote:

Bamba wrote:

I'm not buying a PS4 right now for a few reasons, some of which AE mentions, but I didn't respond to that because it's got not a thing to do with season passes so I just ignored it as a slightly odd aside.

It was a reply to your suggestion that buying a season pass is a sort of gambling and sends a terrible message to the publishers and must be condemned in the strongest possible terms

How was it a reply? Whether buying a PS4 right now is a bad idea or not has nothing at all to do with whether buying a season pass is a bad idea or not. Even if the two things were directly related, which they're not, it turns out that "wrong + wrong ≠ right" so it's hardly any kind of defence.

myp · **Posted:** Wed Jan 29, 2014 14:41

Grim... wrote:

Hypothetical: If you bought a season pass and the publisher never released any content (maybe they changed their mind, or went bust, or something) do you have any legal grounds for a refund?

iTunes state in their terms and conditions that if you buy a season pass that if there is an episode shortfall that you will get a pro-rata refund. I can't find anything about games, but then again I use terrible search engines.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

I have now completed the Burial At Sea DLC and it's rubbish. (It's very short, which is the only good thing I can find to say about it, it's only taken me this long to complete because I had very little urge to return to it but figured I may as well see the story out.)

Unlike the main game, it doesn't get better towards the end - impossible to recommend. UNLESS YOU'RE A THICK FUCKING DOLT LIKE ME AND YOU BOUGHT THE SEASON PASS IN WHICH CASE YOU MAY AS WELL PLOD THROUGH IT, I SUPPOSE.

Stupid time travel alternate universe shitty cheap plot device as well.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:05

Finished! Only took 18 months or so

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

The game so bad I never even bothered to reinstall it to play the second bit of DLC when it got released, despite me having pre-purchased it via the season pass.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:45

I rather liked it.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11843

I got this for £2.99 on the 360 the other day. Really rather enjoying it; there is no challenge whatsoever, but swinging around on those rails shooting people is rather fun.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

I ranted about the game in-depth earlier in this thread, but it does massively improve for its second half and particularly its final third.

Not a game I'd ever want to play again though, unless they patched in a save system.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11843

well, it saves every 2 yards automatically on the 360!

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Bobbyaro wrote:

well, it saves every 2 yards automatically on the 360!

I commented about this at the time:

viewtopic.php?p=756223#p756223

I went fully 30 minutes between saves at one point, albeit thoroughly exploring the area I was in at the time.

And then you'll have a section where, yes, it seems to be saving every 4.85 seconds.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

My advice: never: play: Alien: Isolation:.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:21

Bobbyaro wrote:

there is no challenge whatsoever

Are you playing on hard?

Hearthly wrote:

save system

Please don't. We know. Everyone knows. Shh.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Saturnalian wrote:

My advice: never: play: Alien: Isolation:.

Yeah I've already crossed that game off my list, just reading about the save 'system' annoys me.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11843

Grim... wrote:

Bobbyaro wrote:

there is no challenge whatsoever

Are you playing on hard?

Yes, it has a few sections where there is a little bit, but the lack of any meaningful "death" means that you can just tank in and win through attrition if you need to (not that I have needed to). Still like it though, and as I say there are still sections that are tough, but they are more set pieces, the AI of the baddies is pretty poor as well, but then it isn't trying to be CoD, so that is fine.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:54

That's true, but nearly dying costs money. 'Merica!

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Bobbyaro wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Bobbyaro wrote:

there is no challenge whatsoever

Are you playing on hard?

Yes, it has a few sections where there is a little bit, but the lack of any meaningful "death" means that you can just tank in and win through attrition if you need to (not that I have needed to). Still like it though, and as I say there are still sections that are tough, but they are more set pieces, the AI of the baddies is pretty poor as well, but then it isn't trying to be CoD, so that is fine.

Put together the 'fire charge' build and you'll be indestructible.

I detailed it earlier in the thread, once I happened on that it rendered every single combat encounter entirely trivial. (Well, less trivial than they were already. But it did make them a lot quicker, which I was grateful for as the combat in this game is shit.)

Just thinking about this game is irritating me with memories of its mediocrity.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sun Aug 23, 2015 15:28

Cosplay!

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Whatever.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

Anuther

http://cs624117.vk.me/v624117744/ea39/73ZiEU51LzE.jpg

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

That single picture is better than anything actually in the game, though.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

This is now free in exchange for voting in some thing:

http://www.gamesradar.com/vote-golden-j ... -infinite/

I'll probably grab it and give it a go on easy (assuming my PC will run it) as I fancy seeing the world they've built and hopefully on easy the combat won't be too shit.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Bamba wrote:

I'll probably grab it and give it a go on easy (assuming my PC will run it) as I fancy seeing the world they've built and hopefully on easy the combat won't be too shit.

It'll be shit, but easy.

In fact it was shit but easy on normal too. Because the game only gives you two weapon slots, it can't run the risk of you going into an area with completely the wrong weapons, so every weapon is reasonably effective against every baddy, and it always puts a selection of weapons in each arena anyway, just in case. Plus if you run out of ammo Elizabeth will find some up her skirt for you.

Previous rant - viewtopic.php?p=756321#p756321

Quote:

My honest opinion is that the gunplay in BI is boring, repetitive, contrived, sub single-player CoD rubbish, and that the game design is needlessly mean-minded by only allowing you to carry two guns at a time, whilst forcing a single autosave slot on you as well.

It compensates for this by making sure that enemies readily drop pretty much the entire range of weapons you could ever need in every single 'arena', to mitigate the chance of the player (who is not imbued with psychic abilities) making the 'wrong' decision on what to enter the arena with. (And let's face it, BI is basically a series of small interconnected arenas, there's nothing like the scope of the play area that BL2 serves up.)

The problem with that of course is that the right weapons for any given situation, whilst available as drops, may not be the ones that you've upgraded, so you're left scrabbling around with shit guns that you have to use out of necessity.

It seems to me that the game design financially prohibits the player from even coming close to upgrading all the guns and/or vigors, so you're left making blind choices going into unknown situations with no save to fall back on, but since the game can't put you into an impossible situation - (apparently 1999 mode CAN do this but the easy/normal/hard modes don't) - you end up with the tired old cliché of endless ammo crates, health packs, enemies dropping 'good' guns all over the place, and Elizabeth handily chucking whatever you need at you in times of need. Yeah it mixes it up a bit by letting you choose which tear to open depending on what you need, OPEN THIS TEAR FOR HEALTH, OPEN THIS TEAR FOR AMMO, OPEN THIS TEAR FOR SOME COVER AND DON'T WORRY I'LL MAKE SURE THERE'S A SNIPER RIFLE THERE FOR YOU, OPEN THIS TEAR FOR A MACHINE GUN TURRET etc but it's all desperately contrived IMO and nothing like the freeform combat mechanics of BL2 where you could really bend the game around how you wanted to play it.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Your rant really only speaks to the combat though and I fully expect that aspect to suck ass, which is the very reason I've never bothered with the game before. I do like the look of the thing though and am happy enough to suffer minor annoyance from the arena fighting in order to see what the game's all about. Well, given the chance to see that for free anyway.

Findus Fop · **Joined:** 14th May, 2009 **Posts:** 4299

Bamba wrote:

I do like the look of the thing though and am happy enough to suffer minor annoyance from the arena fighting in order to see what the game's all about. Well, given the chance to see that for free anyway.

Exactly. The world they've created has more than enough moments of wonder to make it worth your while. The first hour is choc full of them. And if you don't like it after that, fair enough. But I'd be surprised if you couldn't be charmed by it.

Not my favourite game by any stretch, and certainly annoyed me for the same reasons people mention. But they've created a world it would be criminal to never experience.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Bamba wrote:

Your rant really only speaks to the combat though and I fully expect that aspect to suck ass, which is the very reason I've never bothered with the game before. I do like the look of the thing though and am happy enough to suffer minor annoyance from the arena fighting in order to see what the game's all about. Well, given the chance to see that for free anyway.

Well you can't go wrong for free I suppose

As per my (many

) comments earlier in this thread, in the final analysis it's not a bad game, the final third is actually pretty good and has some genuine 'Wow' moments, but the combat is consistently poor and neither the game world or the characters are particularly interesting.

Columbia is no Rapture, that's for sure.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

I was well grumpy in this thread earlier. It's pretty funny reading it again especially since I didn't get what Grim... was on about with the edit button "joke" until today.

Oh and Bioshock: Infinite: why wouldn't you play it if it was free! You might enjoy it for a bit.

Even if it was a bit shit.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Sep 02, 2015 15:21

Saturnalian wrote:

I was well grumpy in this thread earlier. It's pretty funny reading it again especially since I didn't get what Grim... was on about with the edit button "joke" until today.

Whut?

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

I said something about you cant go back and redo things in real life; you said we should remove your edit button; I thought you'd caught me editing a post; you didn't mean that; I didn't 'get' what you meant; until today.

How we laughed.

In our heads.

With multiple voices.

In different accents.

At the same time.

Be Excellent To Each Other

Bioshock Infinite announced

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