Be Excellent To Each Other

A very large post by Stephen there, expending a lot of effort saying 'Scottish things are separate don't you know', which wasn't in doubt. The fact they feel the need to prefix 'Scottish' in front of them is the subject of debate. There's nothing to stop it being called 'The ambulance service' in Scotland either, after all, it doesn't say 'The English Ambulance Service' in England, does it? The fact it's different behind the scenes is completely irrelevant to the public who don't care about how it's run. But in Scotland, everything must have 'Scottish' in front of it, because it's so jolly important in the mind of the wee Scots that they have their own thing that musn't be confused for anything that also exists in England. It IS pathetic.

Just out of interest, it’s the Welsh Ambulance Service too.

Yeah, every Ambulance Service is named, somewhat helpfully, for the geographical location it serves. It's not called the English Ambulance Service because there is no such thing. E.g. Round here it's the North West Ambulance Service and it's part of NHS England. In Scotland it's the Scottish Ambulance Service and it's part of NHS Scotland.

There is no 'English Blah' for anything because presumably the English feel much less need to desperately reinforce their identity in absolutely everything. Regions might exhibit it on a smaller scale but Scotland is by far the worst offender to the point of tedium. Scotmid, Scotbet, Scotthis, Scotthat. Fucking hell I've even eaten sandwiches that said 'MADE WITH PRIDE IN SCOTLAND' on them.

Now we have the nationalists standing alone trying to oppose the EU referendum bill: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33067157

Thank fuck there aren't many of the idiotic morons.

Regions do it presumably because they are big enough to make it worthwhile having seperate services - you can see that in Police Scotland, they used to be seperate regions, but it was condensed into one to make it more efficient and to save money. You don't need 4 or 5 different forces in a country with only 5 million people, after all.
The sandwich thing, everywhere does that. Was in America in April - both Nevada and California. Saw plenty of things loudly proclaiming "Made in Nevada" and "Made in California". EVERY country does it - EVERY brand plays on peoples loyalty to their country. I don't know about others, by I am more likely to buy something that says "Made in Britain" rather than "Made in China".

I guess that's where we differ then, because I can see when some lame attempt is being made to pander to some bias and it makes me more unlikely to buy it.

I believe, by law, producers are required to state where the product has been made. If companies wish to use this as a marketing tool, it makes sense. There are some people more likely to buy something made within a few hundred miles, rather than a few thousand.

Just makes ecological sense to buy local stuff, not to mention economic sense.

I'm on a large business project involving marketing in Scotland at present.

All our contact and research at present shows a far stronger bias to buy into marketed Nationalism in Scotland than in England.

For example, shoppers in Scotkand show a strong negative bias to buying something labelled as 'English' (English Butter), for example, whereas Shoppers in Engkand do not show the same bias against products listed as 'Scottish' (beef, water, etc).

Basically, advice and research says don't stock products marketed as English, avoid any show of the Union flag on packaging, etc

Whilst I'm sure that's true in a lot of cases and probably more prevalent than in England it's clear from your ambulance example that you are also seeing fanatical nationalism in instances where having Scotland in the name is simply descriptive of an organisation's function because it was set up to serve that region.

I disagree. Given the size of the country, a regional or locally based force is more likely to be able to adapt itself to the needs of the communities they serve. I doubt the policing needs of inner Glasgow are similar to those of the remote islands.

But I'm happy for the Scots to organise their policing in whatever way they want.

At first glance, I thought Robert Carlyle was holding a gun to that poor dog's head, then.

This is basically what I'm saying. Because I'm not a native this stuff just seems really blatant to me, and it clearly works very well. Stick a fucking Saltire on it with the word 'Scotland' and 'Pride' in there somewhere and you're good to go. You'll have to forgive me if I think such strong nationalism is basically an indicator of small-minded idiocy. We certainly consider that to be the case with highly nationalistic english EDL dickheads.

Incidentally I think Rob Carlisle is a top actor that adds to whatever he's in. I'm watching the somewhat unlikely Once Upon a Time at the moment, and without his character in that it probably wouldn't be worth watching.

Bzzt!

That's not always the case. Outside of the British season for tomato-growing, for instance, imported Spanish tomatoes have a smaller carbon footprint than locally-grown ones.

So's your face.

Yesterday in Parliament:



Superb!

EDIT: and a bit further down:

Indeed.

Anyway, I don't think that people are simply buying into an ecological ideal by actively avoiding anything with a Union flag in case it comes from part of the UK south of the border...

I've not been following the progress of the Scotland Bill: there are better things to do on days like these, after all. No doubt it's either a deep, deep betrayal or a really big generous cake with extra sprinkly bits and cherries on top, depending on one's own prejudice.

Anyways, yesterday the government announced its solution to the good old West Lothian question. Where measures relate to areas devolved to Holyrood, they want to introduce an extra stage in the passage of a bill through the Commons in which only English (or, when relevant English and Welsh) MPs can vote, before Third Reading.

It feels like a bit of fudge that isn't going to satisfy anyone, and I can't but think that it will take the House's officers a lot of extra effort to decide what is and isn't in scope, causing much unrest when things are mislabelled.

Still, once it collapses it'll be another step closer to either federalism (good thing) or secession (bad thing).

Hmm... so, the SNP are going to break their non-interventionist stand and vote against the hunting proposals. They're MPs, and that's their choice (although amusingly the plan would bring England & Wales into line with Scotland). The only thing that's concerning me about all this is it means that the next few years are going to be spent going endlessly over the hunting issue, just like the Blair years. Zzzzz...

You beat me to the punch Kern. These fucking SNP cunts.





As far as English laws go, they're absolutely and utterly third class steerage and shouldn't be anywhere near this vote. The fact is these whiny bastards have realised how impotent their power is at Westminster, so now the objective is just to interfere with the government at every possible stage and justify it as 'in Scotland's interest' to do so.

The sooner we bring in something cast iron to shut out this fifth column of separatist shitbags from English matters the better.


Oh, do you mean he's ignoring your irrelevant little band of flag-waving interfering cunts? Diddums.

Well, this is what you get by voting SNP. They couldn't hold to a principle if their lives depended on it.

Indeed. I doubt it would've got through without the SNP dicking around, and the issue would be buried. But instead they go for this...

Le sigh.

Shouldn't the blame be more accurately levelled at whomever raised this new proposal in the first place, rather than sighing at a group who've responded to it?

Well it was in the Tory manifesto so you can blame everyone who voted for them.

I suppose because I've no dog in this fight (I really am completely on the fence about the issue), the greater constitutional issue it raises for once passes me by. Stuff was carried with Scottish votes before 2015, stuff will be carried with their votes after 2015. If it were a major national issue only affecting England & Wales, yeah, perhaps I'd be more angry. But it's hunting, and the Tories were going to have a free vote on it anyway.

Still, I do enjoy the game of politics, although have sat on or observed enough committees in my time to be under no illusions about it.

I always thought introducing the ban on hunting was the Labour leadership's barganining chip for the whole Iraq farrago.

*rimshot*

I am completely opposed to fox hunting with dogs. If the SNP want devolution and non-interference from the UK government in 'their' affairs, they can at least uphold the basic fucking credibility of practising what they preach. Except they don't because they're a bunch of hypocritical, selfish opportunistic bastards with no true sense of fairness or due process.

You'd be hard pressed to back the Tories over them on due process, given the amount of times the courts have had to slap them down from doing things that were downright illegal.

Anyways, the whole fucking thing is just a distraction. As distasteful as I find fox hunting, it wouldn't crack the top hundred things I think that parliament (and people) should be concerned about:

I like this lass.

OH NO THEY CLAPPED AGAIN. Because that's the important stuff that's going on in the Commons in the moment, as opposed to what the Tories are planning for the next five years.

Yeah, but realistically, was anyone expecting any kind of integrity from the SNP, especially when there's an opportunity of cheap points scoring in the offing? Personally I think it's great for two reasons and I'm not angry about this at all, because

(1) I hate fox hunting; it belongs in the same category as bear-baiting and dog fighting. Just because you dress up all posh, you're still, basically, torturing animals for laffs, so you know, GTFF

- and -

(2) As if any proof were needed, this amply shows that we don't need to take anything the SNP promises to do even remotely seriously; I doubt even they themselves do?

This all brings into sharp focus what things *could* have been like if Labour had won more seats (shame the SNP ensured they didn't, eh?) All those promises to work "constructively" with Labour "in the interests of the entire UK"....... shudders..... yeah right, we'll just file that under 'fox hunting'

So, reasons to be cheerful EBG old chap? Things could've been so much worse and the last 9 months or so could hardly have been any better for those of us to the right of centre/unionist persuasion. It's all really quite fab.

You know me Cavey, the antics of the SNP spark me off far more than any other, probably because I'm beaten over the head with their tedious propaganda on a daily basis.

Take this Glasgae chav in the video above, in a near-empty chamber apart from the SNP gaggle there to hold her hand through her brave speech, where she rolls through the well-worn guff about food banks and the meanness of Tory policy. Hideous in both physiognomy and political content.

Look at those cute little SNP badges they all wear too - possibly because they're worried that they're so irrelevant that they won't be identifiable without them? They should be worried.

Meh, every dagger the SNP can stick into the side of the Tories over the next five years is good by me.

Maybe Labour will fucking grow a pair as a result too, I'd be surprised if the Tories manage another majority in five years time - the opposition just need to get their act together.

They might almost be better off not doing - that is, giving the Tories something concrete to unite around might work against them. Both main parties cover a range of opinions, of course, but you have Osborne taking Labour language around a living wage (hardly 'business friendly' and only possible because we have a minimum wage in the first place) and Cameron taking credit for introducing gay marriage even though a majority of his party's MPs voted against. And then the anti EU Tory MPs ready to rebel if it seems the referendum isn't a genuine question (what? the leadership want to stay in?), David Davis ready to battle the frothing anti human rights lot... and all that division could disappear if they're reminded that they won't win the next election by default. Interesting times, at least.

One thing that we know right now is that Cameron's majority really isn't worth much at the moment.

What's the general opinion of the SNP's record governing Scotland? I've only ever read one article looking back on their years in power (in this month's 'Prospect'), and the Labour-leaning author was generally scathing, arguing that their policies aren't as progressive as they claim. I would be interested in hearing other views.




I really hope we don't start following the recent American tradition of political leaders wearing little flags in their lapels.

I'm very concerned about the future of the Union. Starting to fear that we won the battle in September but have lost the war, and it feels like the English are starting to get agitated about the current settlement. When I was up in North Britain a few weeks ago, it really did feel like a different country.

Hmm, well, "dagger to the side" is a tad strong, but I'd certainly agree they've inflicted an embarrassment and major inconvenience to the Tories (but hey, who in their right mind would want to reintroduce the barbaric fox hunting anyway, like this is some kind of priority? Worrying, naive, arrogant, entirely regressive and stupid). Equally, though, they've massively reduced their own (already non-existent) credibility themselves also, no-one will believe anything they say from now on, albeit granted, not that they did before either, mind.

As for Labour "growing a pair", well, a corpse can't grow anything. Even you must concede that they're in a worse state now than even the bad old days of the early 1980s; they're leaderless, rudderless, haven't even the first clue about what they're actually for and whom they're supposed to be serving, without even the most basic ideology/soul, and split right down the middle to boot, as Harman's latest approval of Osborne's benefit cuts proves beyond doubt. As for the leadership contenders - can even you, honestly, see this country electing Andy Burnham as its next Prime Minister? As for that Corbyn bloke, well, I wouldn't even know where to start; people compare him to Michael Foot but even that's an insult, as the latter might well have been equally as electable (i.e. not at all), but was at least a great orator and political thinker.

No, the chickens have come home to roost for Labour. More than that, though, I truly believe that the Right have well and truly won the political argument in this country (well, England at least). Shit, even Stu seems to think so, according to his blog.

Labour are out of power for 10-15 years minimum, and quite frankly, probably forever IMO. Things might've been a bit more positive for them if old Chukka hadn't bottled it, but he did, so consequently they're not.

In what regard? I'm curious about your experience as my only recent trip to the south of Britain was London which also felt like a different country but only because, well, it's London and nothing should really be measured by what people think there.

It's the little things really. The most noticebale difference was the large number of flags everywhere, continually reminding us that this is Scotland. Outside of Cornwall, I don't tend to see many flags of any kind. Nothing wrong with civic or national pride, of course, but noticeable that they wanted to emphasise it.

Similarly, the few musuems I went to would refer to Scotland's history, geology, and place in the world*. Sure, no doubt these biasas are in English museums too, but it felt very obvious to the outsider.

Listening to Radio 4 in the car I realised that some of the domestic issues being discussed were irrelevant to where we were due to the different legal and education systems etc.

All in all, very much a list of things that adds up to nothing much, but still noticeable. Like how when you cross the Channel and the light in France looks, well, different.

*Admittedly, I did smile at the large display in the big one in Glasgow about colonial atrocities carried out by Scots, which must have been curated with a knowing wink towards the Mel Gibson school of Scottish historiography.

Interesting. I must be blind to all the flags because outside of the odd product icon that seemingly makes EBJ froth at the mouth I couldn't tell you the last time I consciously registered seeing a Saltire anywhere.

By the way, other than the bagpipers, I really liked Edinburgh.

Hmm, well, if you spent time in Edinburgh that would certainly explain the flag overload. It's a nice enough place but it feels very 'Disneyland Scotland' when I'm there and I certainly wouldn't generalise an experience there out to the rest of the country. You'll probably see more cliched Scottish shit on a ten minute walk down Princes Street or The Royal Mile than you would in a whole year in Glasgow. I'm slightly biased against it because I used to work up there so my only experience of it for years was a soul-crushing daily commute. These days I can enjoy it as a pretty place to wander around in for a few hours but it always still feels weirdly fake to me.

Although I realise I'm sort of half-apologising or trying to explain away the idea that there might be a lot of Scottish flags around and I'm not sure why I'm doing that. Well, actually, I do: it's because I seem to have internalised the implication by a few people here that there's something wrong with it which is bullshit and I need to stop taking that idea seriously. It's a shame that displays of the British flag are looked at with suspicion due to associations with the BNP et al but there's no such problem with the Saltire so fuck it, why not? And while some people will always let their patriotism shade over into horrible nationalism there's no reason to assume more people aren't doing it just because they like their country (without somehow hating any others), which is not only perfectly fine it's even laudable.

Oh, I've no problem with that at all either. One of the more refreshing things about the last World Cup was the displays of German patriotism, suggesting that the country was now more comfortable with itself and its achievements since 1945.

I did notice that at the border on the M1, the English side had a Union Flag, a St George Flag, and one for Northumberland, whilst the three poles on the other side were all flying the saltaire.

Personally, I would have settled for a 'You are now leaving the Roman Empire' sign.

The general opinion (although it's not mine), is that they're doing a good job. This is demonstrated by a lot of people voting SNP who aren't remotely nationalist, or even Scottish, voting for the people who they think are the best left-leaning socialist types.

The fact is that it's a comparatively piddly little government, managing a mere 5 million people but demanding all of the pomp, scale and prestige of a government 10 times its population size (i.e. rUK). That and the economy is massively subsidised c/o Barnett from people they despise. I imagine their popularity would plummet if they had to do something as grown up as managing their own finances, which is precisely why they now don't want that, Oil prices through the floor and their independence economic plans exposed as an utter joke.

The inability to command or demand equivalent respect really eats them up. Hence the fierce nationalism, the flag-waving, and the disruptive naysaying of anything they think they can poke their noses in to. Like I've said before, it's a chip-on-shoulder mentality through and through.

I live in Edinburgh and I don't think Kern is the type to confuse cheesey tourist shops with the general over-inflation of nationalism I've spoken about before. There are some points of the Scottish ways that I quite enjoy, including the pipes. But not when it's overhyped into a crass parody of itself at all times, and for political ends. That makes you end up really rather hating it.

One thing I will say is that I notice more Saltires in ned-ridden bad areas of the city, much like you'd expect English flags to be disproportionately sported by idiot racist chavs. Somehow though the Scottish demand that you consider these examples to be respectable pride at ones country, yet the same isn't afforded to like-minded chaps in England. Perhaps I'll start snapping pictures whenever I see a Saltire for some reference material.

As an aside on Foxhunting - I can only assume the movement to relax the law is lip-service to the red-jacket wearing, horse-riding horn-tooting toffs that also support the Tories. I identify with them not at all and would find it vaguely amusing to see them hunted by huge packs of foxes. The fact the move was doomed to fail probably upsets very few in government; it's just a move to keep a section of their traditional wealthy supporters happy. 'Hey look, at least we tried'.

Heh. As ever, the Daily Mash has it about right.

I hate to intrude on private grief you understand, but......