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The end of the UK?
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Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

DavPaz wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
the bit that that Proddies lived in
Who were only there in the first place because the English put them there. And they were Scots :)

I know! We're such meddling tits.

Author:  asfish [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Kern wrote:
Cookie197 wrote:
All I've heard about is tax, tax and tax.


The ability to raise your own money through taxation, rather than rely on a grant, is generally considered to be better and a sign of more independence and discretion than being solely dependent on a central government grant that could be removed or reduced on a whim. Of course, it also means you have to think carefully about the rate you set it, and whether you have the taxbase to pay it. But it's your money, not Westminster's.


All fine until you have to raise taxes and don't have a grant to fall back on, then your voters hate you as everyone hates taxes

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Kern wrote:
I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.

" "May you live in interesting times" - Ancient Proverb" - DavPaz

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

All of Salmond's Scottish money trees have died because of the English.

Author:  Trooper [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Kern wrote:
I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.


Hair raising stuff for sure, it was always on the fringe before this, now it's coming to a head.

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Trooper wrote:
Kern wrote:
I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.


Hair raising stuff for sure, it was always on the fringe before this, now it's coming to a head.

Here wig-o again

Author:  Kern [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

DavPaz wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Kern wrote:
I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.


Hair raising stuff for sure, it was always on the fringe before this, now it's coming to a head.

Here wig-o again


The Tories are taking a little off the top.

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Cuts. Typical.

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Its nothing to be Afro-ed of.

Author:  Grim... [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

I'm still pissed off that I pay more tax than the scottish or something. I've got bills toupee!

Author:  Trooper [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

"Lord, grant that Marshal Wade, May by thy mighty aid, Victory bring. May he sedition hush, and like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush, God save The King."

If there had been a yes vote, we could have brought that verse back!

Author:  Trooper [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Just throwing this out there... I wonder what the odds are on Gordon Brown being the next prime minister...

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 15:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Mega heh!

Author:  Peter St. John [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 16:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Salmond stepping down in November.

Author:  myp [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 16:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Kern wrote:
I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.

When Boris Johnson makes a Barnett/Barnet pun, it is truly the endtimes.

Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 18:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Peter St. John wrote:
Salmond stepping down in November.

His speech was rather good, I have to say. He also looked very much like the wind had been knocked out of him. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 21:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Fuck me that news made me happy. Never having to hear that smug, smarmy cunt's voice ever again is the best thing to come out of the whole thing.

But, you know, bless. Poor chap. At least now he can spend more time on his folk music.

Author:  Mimi [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

It's sad to see what might have begun kicking off in George Sq, Glasgow this evening, so hopefully the crowds calm quickly or can be contained to avid any rioting/injury/arrest. Though, looking at the pictures a couple of people are flooding Twitter with, all the people gathered appear to be from the same side and there are no people present or causing trouble on the other, so there should be no scuffling at least.

Author:  TheCookie197 [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

And people were saying that if Yes won, they would be intolerable.
Shows you there are people just as bad on either side.
I mean, really? BURNING the saltire? What do you hope to gain from that, apart from alienating yourself from the other 5 million people in Scotland.

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz. And that it was faked by the No campaign.

;)

Author:  Trooper [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Author:  TheCookie197 [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


Anyone that says that is, once again, an idiot.

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.

Author:  Cavey [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Fuck me that news made me happy. Never having to hear that smug, smarmy cunt's voice ever again is the best thing to come out of the whole thing.

But, you know, bless. Poor chap. At least now he can spend more time on his folk music.


:D :this:

Author:  Trooper [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


I read earlier that yes voters were burning a union flag in the square first, which kicked off some trouble. Not sure how reliable that is though, we all know what twitter is like!

Author:  Cavey [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Cookie197 wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


Anyone that says that is, once gain, an idiot.


"Megaheh"

(C) Kissyfur 2008. All rights reserved.

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Cookie197 wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


Anyone that says that is, once gain, an idiot.

My point was that either side would be saying the same about the behaviour of the other, whoever won, and the misbehaving side would be explaining it away in the same tediously mealy mouthed partisan way.

Basic point being, don't kid on that there wouldn't have been exactly the same story about the unreconstructed elements of the yessers if they'd won.

Dog bites man, basically.

Author:  Trooper [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Trooper wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.

Author:  myp [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Cookie197 wrote:
And people were saying that if Yes won, they would be intolerable.
Shows you there are people just as bad on either side.
I mean, really? BURNING the saltire? What do you hope to gain from that, apart from alienating yourself from the other 5 million people in Scotland.

These people represent Scottish unionists in the same way the IRA represents the Irish, or the EDL represents the English.

Author:  asfish [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.


It was Scottish votes that stopped the UK bombing Syria last year. Scottish MP's should not have a vote on British matters, but would be welcome to vote where the whole UK is involved, anything else would be total bollocks.

Otherwise how else are we a Union?

Author:  Trooper [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Mr Kissyfur wrote:
They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.


I wouldn't be so sure, as the results of the referendum show, it's possible to fool a lot of people...

Labour could well be stuck between a rock and a hard place in this, if the conservatives can gain enough populist support for "English votes for English issues". They block it, they don't get the votes to get into power, they allow it they lose the influence in Westminster...

Author:  Trooper [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

asfish wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.


It was Scottish votes that stopped the UK bombing Syria last year. Scottish MP's should not have a vote on British matters, but would be welcome to vote where the whole UK is involved, anything else would be total bollocks.

Otherwise how else are we a Union?


I don't think you meant to type British there did you? :D

Author:  MrChris [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

asfish wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.


It was Scottish votes that stopped the UK bombing Syria last year. Scottish MP's should not have a vote on British matters, but would be welcome to vote where the whole UK is involved, anything else would be total bollocks.

Otherwise how else are we a Union?

That's the whole flipping point, man. They will be able to vote on "UK" matters, but won't be able to vote on "English" matters, which includes stuff like the NHS (given that, among other things, NHS control in Scotland is devolved), which means a Labour government with a majority in the HoC won't actually be able to pass legislation on major vote winning stuff like the NHS or University tuition in England. So they won't agree to it.

Author:  TheCookie197 [ Sat Sep 20, 2014 0:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

American Nervoso wrote:
Cookie197 wrote:
And people were saying that if Yes won, they would be intolerable.
Shows you there are people just as bad on either side.
I mean, really? BURNING the saltire? What do you hope to gain from that, apart from alienating yourself from the other 5 million people in Scotland.

These people represent Scottish unionists in the same way the IRA represents the Irish, or the EDL represents the English.


I did point out the whole 'other 5 million' to try show it was a minority of people.

Author:  Mimi [ Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

V
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Cookie197 wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


Anyone that says that is, once gain, an idiot.

My point was that either side would be saying the same about the behaviour of the other, whoever won, and the misbehaving side would be explaining it away in the same tediously mealy mouthed partisan way.

Basic point being, don't kid on that there wouldn't have been exactly the same story about the unreconstructed elements of the yessers if they'd won.

Dog bites man, basically.


Yes, there's a tiny idiot minority on both sides. That tiny idiot minority is making an arse if themselves on both sides with the mentality that they enjoy spoiling for a fight and the associated adrenaline and this is their latest excuse to exercise that feeling. It'd be football or some other excuse at another time. They're adrenaline junkies with no skill for sport or activity. Idiots all.

Author:  Mimi [ Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

D'oh! Something a bit more lighthearted, I hope!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-fr ... e-29278589

Author:  Bobbyaro [ Sat Sep 20, 2014 13:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Image

Author:  Pod [ Sat Sep 20, 2014 21:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Saw this today:
Results of 1991 referendum to preserve the Soviet Union
Image

So expect Hadrian's Wall to fall down in a few months with The Hoff dancing atop of it.

Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Sat Sep 20, 2014 23:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

If you want a new source of amusement, google 'We are the 45%' and see how well the sour grape merchants are taking things. There's even a bloody twibbon for it.

Author:  Kern [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
If you want a new source of amusement, google 'We are the 45%'


The 45? Isn't that the final Jacobite uprising? Didn't go very well, so far as I can remember. At least Salmond hasn't fled to France after his defeat.

If you're up near Inverness, visit the Culloden battlefield. The visitor centre is up there with the best ACW ones I've been to. I'll have to write the trip up sometime.

Author:  Kern [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
'We are the 45%'


Quote:
We are the 45%; the spirit of Yes; the people of Yes, pressing onward for justice, equality, hope, intelligence and freedom. For you, for Scotland, for humanity


I hate all those things, that why I was advocating for 'No'.

Still, come on everyone. We've another 307 years of oppressing to be getting on with.

Author:  asfish [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

No voters were tricked according to Salmond or Sour Grapes as he is now known :p

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29296282

Author:  RuySan [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Mimi wrote:
D'oh! Something a bit more lighthearted, I hope!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-fr ... e-29278589


i feel bad for the scottish for having the "support" from the likes of these racists, and also from those catalonian smugs.

Author:  Kern [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

asfish wrote:
No voters were tricked according to Salmond or Sour Grapes as he is now known :p


I misread that as 'no voters' rather than 'people who voted 'no' :facepalm:

Author:  Cavey [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Man, is there anything quite so odious and pathetic in life, as a sore loser?

Gah. GTFF.

Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Cavey wrote:
Man, is there anything quite so odious and pathetic in life, as a sore loser.

They've all gone out and bought fresh axes to grind. The resentment and bitterness will enslave them indefinitely.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

Hot on the heels of Salmond conceding defeat and the democratic will of the Scottish people, and resigning, he's now apparently openly talking about UDI (i.e. a coup, basically):


Quote:
Alex Salmond has raised the prospect of Scotland unilaterally declaring independence without another referendum as he abandoned his promise to accept the result and claimed that No voters were “tricked”.

Despite it being illegal, the First Minister argued the Scottish Parliament could say Scotland was leaving the United Kingdom at the point at which it had been devolved so many powers it was effectively independent.

The First Minister appeared to blame elderly Scots, who were most hostile to leaving the UK, for holding back younger generations and argued that independence is inevitable after they die off.
In a startling intervention, he also claimed that another referendum may not be required to break up Britain as the Scottish Parliament could unilaterally declare independence after gaining increasing numbers of powers.

Jim Sillars, his former mentor and a former SNP deputy leader, tweeted that the nationalists should “assert” a new rule that Scotland would become independent if separatist parties won a majority of votes and seats at the 2016 Holyrood election.
Related Articles

But opposition parties said Mr Salmond’s comments were akin to him proposing an “illegal coup” and were an “insult to the people of Scotland.” Adam Tomkins, professor of public law at the University of Glasgow, said unilaterally declaring independence was illegal and “bonkers”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... icked.html

Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

This is what people fail to understand about the nationalists - they're extremists operating under the guise of reason and legitimacy. The ultimate goal has always been independence at all costs. At all costs. The arguments don't actually matter - they're merely the tool to convince the masses to lend them the political power to achieve their aims. They wanted independence before oil was a thing, and god knows how they'd planned to fund the country back then - but good reasons didn't matter then and they don't now.

Full devolution would make independence entirely unnecessary, and now Salmond is saying that in that event they'd then just be able to declare it unilaterally anyway. Or stick independence in their manifesto and declare it in the event of a majority SNP government. Totes legit.

Author:  Kern [ Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: The end of the UK?

No doubt the best thing to happen to the SNP's electoral prospects has been losing the referendum. They can remain an anti-establishment party and continue to blame policy failings on London.

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