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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:33 
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Sleepyhead

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The thing is, if Scotland votes Yes and then tries to walk out on the debt, Westminster can just tell them to go fuck themselves in all other matters, can't they? I'm not sure of the exact wording of the agreement that they have to Scotland re: the referendum, but I'm pretty sure they still need to ask nicely or something.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:38 
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If Scotland votes No, can we just kick them out anyway for being whiny Scotches?

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:59 
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Curiosity wrote:
The thing is, if Scotland votes Yes and then tries to walk out on the debt, Westminster can just tell them to go fuck themselves in all other matters, can't they? I'm not sure of the exact wording of the agreement that they have to Scotland re: the referendum, but I'm pretty sure they still need to ask nicely or something.


Yeah, the whole thing will have to be an accord between the two countries so it'll be compromises and trade-offs across the board; as it should be. Which is exactly why Scotland walking away from the debt is even a discussion. Doing so would fuck Westminster off to the point they'd screw Scotland on other shit as you say making it unlikely, but if Westminster were already being utter dicks about everything else Scotland could conceivably feel pushed into taking this 'nuclear option'. In reality I don't think either of those extreme positions is likely because it's in no one's interests for such negotiation to be drawn-out and unpleasant.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:02 
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Aye. Hopefully if there's a Yes vote then everyone will be grown up about it. I don't think it serves the rUK to be dicks out of principle, but that's not to say they won't be.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:04 
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There's a big difference between what an iScotland COULD do, as compared to what it WOULD do, in a given sane, realistic scenario.

An iScotland COULD default on its shared debt(thereby walking away from its assets as well, incidentally) , just as it COULD do any other number of ridiculous things. Back in the real, grown up world, though, it ain't gonna happen - for any number of eminently sensible reasons that even the most cursory Googling of non-frothing, independent information resources with no axe to grind one way or another will tell you.

You'd think, wouldn't you, that the SNP would've worked this most fundamental shit out (or at least have a number of currency options that are NOT predicated on getting unwilling third parties to do stuff they're absolutely not going to do, is not in their interests to do, and couldn't actually deliver even if they wanted to). Same goes for an iScotland's EU membership/status for that matter - but then, we mustn't forget the non-existent "legal advice"...

The fact is this: whatever you may think about Cameron and/or the Conservatives, they are, at least, savvy, grown up, pretty clever politicians. On every turn, it is no doubt dawning on the SNP that every single one of their hapless foxes has been shot, keeping "DevoMax" off the ballot paper being key, together with the aforementioned EU Gate, the most basic currency considerations/risks of a run on banks, the needs of big business and employers' (most notably oil and finance sectors, the very lifeblood of Scotland's economy).

It's just all so bloody half-arsed?
I seriously, seriously expected so much more than this.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:34 
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I deliberately avoided the debate as I knew it wouldn't be anything new, and would instead be pitched at the standard lowest denominator of cheap wordy tactics aimed at the simple-minded.

Salmond's rhetoric annoys No voters for insulting their intelligence, and gives YesNPers new material for their brave heart spankbank, but I'm not sure if any of it is convincing anyone else. There is always the most dreary and predictable crowing when the nats think Salmond has put in a good show, but there's little to show it getting past more than 40% support.

I'm also not convinced that it will have occurred to most if these thick twats to even register to vote. I wonder how many will just turn up on the day demanding their vote.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 13:29 
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I'm still amazed that the No vote is winning, tbh.

I thought that a combination of nationalism, the sense of responsibility and promises given would easily be enough to win the day for Yes (and it still might). More to the point, people on the Yes side seem more likely to vote than people who are largely 'Nah, it's okay at the mo'. I can't see too many rabid anti-independence voters in the same way people get excited by the Yes possibility.

Also, most of my Scottish friends, if not all, seem likely to vote Yes, for a variety of reasons. The most compelling one seems to be, "Yes, it might be tough, and no, I don't necessarily believe that everything Salmond says is true, but I think we should try anyway, and succeed or fail on our own two feet." And that's a persuasive argument, to be honest.

I would vote No personally because I'm English and like the union (and Yes would cause more work for me). I'm just surprised that there appear to be more No voters, and wonder what the defining characteristic of the movement is (as I don't buy that they're intrinsically more intelligent or whatever).

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 13:35 
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Straw poll of driving through the highlands reveals the signage to be overwhelmingly in favour of 'no'.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 13:35 
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I'm slightly worried that I won't have a vote for the referendum because I moved flat not long ago and sent off the form to register to vote at my new address but haven't heard anything back. If I don't get a voting card does that mean I'm totally fucked or is it still worth rocking up to the polling station?


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 13:44 
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You have til the 2nd to register I believe, so plenty of time.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 21:07 
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Just watched the second debate.
Really unimpressed by Salmond. The only times he looked like a leader rather than an undergraduate debating champ were when he was setting out his vision. It's just a shame he is unable to back it up with hard figures or a sense of political reality. And every time he knocked the Tories or bashed Darling for being 'in bed' with them I cringed. Might appeal to the base and work during an election campaign, but not exactly statesmanlike. It was interesting that Salmond rarely brought up his experiences as First Minister, whilst Darling kept on referring to having held high office in a sovereign state and what that taught him.

Darling was as impressive this time round as he was on the STV one. Coming across as a headmasterly figure calmly deconstructing the 'Yes' campaign is certainly not a sexy approach, but for a vote like this it's very effective. I've noticed that on WoS-that-isn't-WoS, some of the commentators are leaping with glee when Darling said that Scotland could use the pound. They seem to have missed his point that they could also use the dollar, the rouble, or the yen.

Three weeks to go. This thread is quite 'No': do any of our 'yes' people have any thoughts on the campaign, the debate, the vote, or Scotland's future?


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 21:28 
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Having been thoroughly wedged between yes and no since all this began and what with the inherent uncertainty that a proposition like this presents, I have decided that the only course of action open to me is to vote with my heart. This is not normally how I go about things but I feel it has been forced by the to and fro stalemate where anything anyone says can, and will, be countered by their opposition to a point where everyone just shrugs and says "well, that's just your opinion." So, on that basis I am currently leaning toward Yes and the reasoning is thus: I like change. Given the choice between something remaining stagnant and forever being unsure of what the outcome would be and taking the plunge and trying something different i will more often than not choose the latter. This is just my mentality and is, imo, a pretty poor thing to decide the future of an entire country on but my rational brainy bit is torn between the two options and so i must let something cast the deciding vote and just bloody hope it doesn't all go tits up.
:nerd:


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 21:47 
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I think that's a perfectly reasonable assessment. I would actually prefer more responses like that then the 'land of deep-fried milk and honey' promised by Salmond.

None of us know how independent Scotland* will work in the long term: I would rather people admitted that it's a hell of a risk and worth trying for richer and poorer rather than making promises that might be regretted.



*new rule: anyone who says 'iScotland' gets to meet Steve Jobs. And don't get me started on 'rUK'.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 22:19 
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krazywookie wrote:
Having been thoroughly wedged between yes and no since all this began and what with the inherent uncertainty that a proposition like this presents, I have decided that the only course of action open to me is to vote with my heart. This is not normally how I go about things but I feel it has been forced by the to and fro stalemate where anything anyone says can, and will, be countered by their opposition to a point where everyone just shrugs and says "well, that's just your opinion." So, on that basis I am currently leaning toward Yes and the reasoning is thus: I like change. Given the choice between something remaining stagnant and forever being unsure of what the outcome would be and taking the plunge and trying something different i will more often than not choose the latter. This is just my mentality and is, imo, a pretty poor thing to decide the future of an entire country on but my rational brainy bit is torn between the two options and so i must let something cast the deciding vote and just bloody hope it doesn't all go tits up.
:nerd:


Yeah, pretty much :this: .


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 23:22 
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The quality of the No campaign must really suck if the overall rationale for voting Yes is one of 'well, change might be good'.

This is not a general election. We're not giving the SNP 4-5 years to give independence a roll and see how that pans out, before deciding if we'd like it for 4 more. This is permanent and forever. If it goes tits up, it goes tits up forever.

Their arguments are not convincing, because they're not backed up by evidence. They're backed up by a wish for them to be true, and a lot of that wishing is trying to capitalise on the irrational heart where people would like a better world, and see this as the only choice that offers that possibility.

It's an illusion though, you're led to that conclusion because you see it as a binary choice. Change or no change. The actual proposition for No would see more devolved powers and greater local autonomy.

The overall movement is one where the Scottish government will eventually get control of damn near everything anyway, but without any of the severe risk of being apart from the UK with no central bank at worst, and no control or influence over monetary policy at best.

If I didn't live in Scotland, I'd fine the whole proposition charmingly aspirational, and since it wouldn't ever materially affect me I'd probably tell you all to go for it. That's why others in England feel that way - they know the outcome doesn't put them at risk. Living here though and being able to appreciate the position from the north side of the border, I think it's the absolutely worst possible idea imaginable.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:19 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
It's an illusion though, you're led to that conclusion because you see it as a binary choice. Change or no change. The actual proposition for No would see more devolved powers and greater local autonomy.


Am I the only person in the world who has read the Scotland Act 2012? Even without further devolution, this will be a huge change when it comes into force.

But, whilst I think the 'Yes' campaign has utterly failed to make its case, I can't begrudge people wanting to go for it fully aware that it might all go wrong. I would wish Scotland well, but as I wrote in this thread 2 and half years ago: don't expect us to bail you guys out again when you blow all your treasure on an ill-conceived venture in the New World.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:27 
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But we would.

Of course.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:50 
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Well, I'd just say fair play to Wookie and Bamba here, you guys are Scottish and you live in Scotland, so you're infinitely better placed to make such decisions than someone like me.

To my mind it looks like a crazy risk with so many important details and plans unmade and unresolved, but like I said I'm not the guy who's lived there for 20, 30 years or whatever. :)

From my side I just desperately want the Union to stay together for a whole host of pragmatic and entirely emotive reasons, but Scotland must have her fair, unfettered, democratic chance to decide either way and the rest of us have to respect whatever choice is made.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:08 
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Cavey wrote:
you guys are Scottish and you live in Scotland. I'm not the guy who's lived there for 20, 30 years or whatever.

Just out of interest Cavey, do you regard their opinions with more weight than mine? As I'm a mere English expat that has been here 'only' 4 years, am I trumped by the opinion of a 'trueblood' Scot?

Genuinely curious. Much has been said (and then quickly hushed because of the blatant racism insinuation) about how only 'true' Scots should get to vote, even if they no longer live here, preferentially over someone like me.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:24 
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I regard their opinions with more weight than yours, but only because you're you ;)

I think I want them to vote yes. In my opinion it's a crazy risk, but it'll be an interesting decade or so to watch, at least :)

Assuming a 'yes' vote, what's going to happen to the armed forces?

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:26 
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I suspect a very close military alliance would be formed.

That, or a big fucking wall :)


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:28 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Cavey wrote:
you guys are Scottish and you live in Scotland. I'm not the guy who's lived there for 20, 30 years or whatever.

Just out of interest Cavey, do you regard their opinions with more weight than mine? As I'm a mere English expat that has been here 'only' 4 years, am I trumped by the opinion of a 'trueblood' Scot?

Genuinely curious. Much has been said (and then quickly hushed because of the blatant racism insinuation) about how only 'true' Scots should get to vote, even if they no longer live here, preferentially over someone like me.


That's an incredibly difficult question to answer without sounding like an offensive twat, which knowing how highly I think of you, I really want to avoid.

However, I'm going to be honest and say 'conditional yes, all other things being equal?' To my simplistic mind, a lifetime in Scotland (30 years plus or whatever) is bound to have imparted more specialist knowledge as regards its people, culture, political priorities etc. than 4 years? (But there again, you'll have a different, possibly more interesting/useful perspective in that you'll be coming at this from a different angle, with the benefit of cultural and other life experience of a different country). Just to be clear though, 'blood' has nowt to do with it though.

Of course there are other variables at play; for all I know you might be more insightful and/or intelligent than Bamba or Wookie, meaning you'll assimilate knowledge faster and make more valid deductions? I'm certainly not going to speculate on this(though one thing's for sure, I myself have a head full of straw :D ).

So yeah. Um.
Please no-one take any offence at this as none is intended; just trying to answer a question as honestly as I can.

You're all three of you far better placed than myself (and indeed, many of the vocal commentators in this debate), that's for certain.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:43 
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Grim... wrote:
I regard their opinions with more weight than yours, but only because you're you ;)

Whatever dickhead ;)

As I said, if I lived in England it would be fascinating to watch, knowing that I was largely safe from the consequences of it all going tits up.

Cavey wrote:
Please no-one take any offence at this as none is intended

ENORMOUS OFFENCE TAKEN. FLOUNCING WILL COMMENCE PRESENTLY.

Although I disagree, simply because living somewhere all your life doesn't inherently qualify you to have superior comment on any political situation. Certainly I don't think some jakey booze-filled twat that bases his opinion on what the loud guy next to him says is worth more than my opinion, just because it's coming out of an authentically Scottish mouth.

Similarly even if you're a disenchanted hate-filled Scot that writes a blog from England, I regard that as much less valid than someone who actually lives here.

As far as the emotional argument for independence goes, I am not moved. This is because my sense of patriotism or bubbling resentment towards the English can't be leveraged to make me vote for something without providing credible evidence. I'd personally say that makes me much better placed to have a clear opinion on whether this is a good idea or not.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:50 
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I forgot to mention the other incredibly compelling reason I'm leaning towards a Yes vote: the hope that it'll make EBJ literally explode with rage and frustration at all the stupid selfish jakey cunts he's apparently surrounded by.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:52 
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Bamba wrote:
I forgot to mention the other incredibly compelling reason I'm leaning towards a Yes vote: the hope that it'll make EBJ literally explode with rage and frustration at all the stupid selfish jakey cunts he's apparently surrounded by.



:attitude: - "I agree"


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:09 
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Bamba wrote:
I forgot to mention the other incredibly compelling reason I'm leaning towards a Yes vote: the hope that it'll make EBJ literally explode with rage and frustration at all the stupid selfish jakey cunts he's apparently surrounded by.

You should only really be offended about such a theoretical person if you consider yourself to be one such. Clearly, if I thought you were I'd tell you that directly. Nor has anything I said implied that I consider all Scots to be like this. That would make living in this country a bizarrely unpleasant experience to choose.

Unless you think drunken jakey cunts with ill-informed opinions don't exist? I'm sure you wouldn't say that, and the single crux of my point is that I don't consider such a person to have a more valid opinion than me just because they're home-grown Scots.

Happy to discuss your objection with my views, if you can be specific about what they are.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:11 
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My dad asked an interesting question today. How are people from EU countries living in Scotland likely to vote? After all, they have the ballot too (assuming the registering authorities haven't screwed up like the rumours I heard back in June).


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:16 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Although I disagree, simply because living somewhere all your life doesn't inherently qualify you to have superior comment on any political situation. Certainly I don't think some jakey booze-filled twat that bases his opinion on what the loud guy next to him says is worth more than my opinion, just because it's coming out of an authentically Scottish mouth.

Similarly even if you're a disenchanted hate-filled Scot that writes a blog from England, I regard that as much less valid than someone who actually lives here.

Erm, which is it then?


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:19 
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lasermink wrote:
Erm, which is it then?


That's not the 'one or the other' you think it is.

It's actually pretty simple. Weighting of opinion goes as follows:

1) Lives here
2) Doesn't live here.

Not:

1) Lives here, Scottish.
2) Doesn't live here, Scottish.
3) Lives here, English.

Yes?

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:22 
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Cavey said all other things being equal that someone who had lived there longer would probably have greater insight, which seems pretty reasonable. But you ignored that and started on about loudmouth drunks etc.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:24 
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markg wrote:
Cavey said all other things being equal that someone who had lived there longer would probably have greater insight, which seems pretty reasonable. But you ignored that and started on about loudmouth drunks etc.

Loudmouth drunks who've lived there longer.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:30 
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markg wrote:
Cavey said all other things being equal that someone who had lived there longer would probably have greater insight, which seems pretty reasonable. But you ignored that and started on about loudmouth drunks etc.

I said I disagreed, so I didn't ignore it at all. I used the example of an ill-informed drunk to demonstrate that living somewhere longer confers no automatic 'greater insight' as implied.

I'd actually argue the reverse in some instances, with regard to the 'argument to emotion' as mentioned before. You can go back and actually read what I said if you like, rather than me repeating myself.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:32 
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It's almost the other way round I guess. Your experience of Scotland from historically living there or not is probably less important than the fact that if you do live there now, the vote will have a greater impact on your FUTURE than if you don't.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:32 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
You should only really be offended about such a theoretical person if you consider yourself to be one such. Clearly, if I thought you were I'd tell you that directly. Nor has anything I said implied that I consider all Scots to be like this. That would make living in this country a bizarrely unpleasant experience to choose.

Unless you think drunken jakey cunts with ill-informed opinions don't exist? I'm sure you wouldn't say that, and the single crux of my point is that I don't consider such a person to have a more valid opinion than me just because they're home-grown Scots.

Happy to discuss your objection with my views, if you can be specific about what they are.


I feel that throughout this entire thread you've consistently characterised Yes voters in general as stupid, ignorant, loud-mouthed, selfish idiots. You may not have specifically said all Yes voters share those characteristics but you've certainly done little to make anyone reading your posts believe otherwise either. I believe you've taken the fact that few Yes voters have actually posted in this thread as carte blanche to not only keep doing this but to ramp it up over time. It's made this entire thread a low-level irritation to read and has massively contributed to my own decision to rarely join in the discussion. I'm not going to dig through the entire thread to pull out specific examples and go ten rounds with you on it because I simply don't care enough about it and because it'll no doubt be a miserable angry negative experience for all concerned. You may take as evidence of the flimsiness of my argument if you wish of course.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:36 
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Bamba wrote:
I feel that throughout this entire thread you've consistently characterised Yes voters in general as stupid, ignorant, loud-mouthed, selfish idiots. You may not have specifically said all Yes voters share those characteristics but you've certainly done little to make anyone reading your posts believe otherwise either. I believe you've taken the fact that few Yes voters have actually posted in this thread as carte blanche to not only keep doing this but to ramp it up over time. It's made this entire thread a low-level irritation to read and has massively contributed to my own decision to rarely join in the discussion. I'm not going to dig through the entire thread to pull out specific examples and go ten rounds with you on it because I simply don't care enough about it and because it'll no doubt be a miserable angry negative experience for all concerned. You may take as evidence of the flimsiness of my argument if you wish of course.

I'll save you some time and point you to this, which is an accurate representation of what I think of some Yes voters.

I make it pretty clear that I see there to be two types, one of which I merely think are wrong, and the others who I think are irrecoverably idiotic, selfish, dimwitted twats. For this I make no apology.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:47 
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Cras wrote:
It's almost the other way round I guess. Your experience of Scotland from historically living there or not is probably less important than the fact that if you do live there now, the vote will have a greater impact on your FUTURE than if you don't.

Yeah, and why people like Sean Connery, who live in the Bahamas, can piss off telling us how to vote. Worse still are those that say they might move back if it goes independent. It strikes me as profoundly dishonest to bang on about how much you love your country, except you definitely don't want to live there and support it unless it makes itself more appealing to you.

To answer Kern's dad I think quite a lot of EU citizens will vote, although again depends on the individual. Most people I've spoken to who are aware enough that the referendum is happening will also be choosing to vote.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:51 
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Grim... wrote:
markg wrote:
Cavey said all other things being equal that someone who had lived there longer would probably have greater insight, which seems pretty reasonable. But you ignored that and started on about loudmouth drunks etc.

Loudmouth drunks who've lived there longer.

That's not really all other things being equal though. Not unless gnomes is a drunk too.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:58 
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markg wrote:
Grim... wrote:
markg wrote:
Cavey said all other things being equal that someone who had lived there longer would probably have greater insight, which seems pretty reasonable. But you ignored that and started on about loudmouth drunks etc.

Loudmouth drunks who've lived there longer.

That's not really all other things being equal though. Not unless gnomes is a drunk too.

Subtle ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:26 
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I wouldn't mind quite so much, but compared to your average frothing cybernat I'm downright tame. As if general disdain for the opposing view is the worst opinion one can hold.

I am sorry if you feel that way Bamba. This forum is possibly a bad place to vent my opinion, because it's usually on the back of reading the mad rantings of cybernats and their ilk. I cannot help but hold the whole mentality of that side of the campaign in absolute contempt. Because they are the most visible, most vocal, and most distasteful, it's very difficult to remember that there are some truly not sure people out there that might lean towards what they believe is a chance for a better future.

I don't do people down for wanting that, except that I don't think this is the way. I repeat again that I'd happily vote Yes and leave the UK behind if I thought the evidence held up to proper scrutiny.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:56 
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I think certain people have massively and divisively upped the ante in this whole process, and that's deeply unfortunate. None of us are saints, myself very much included, but no-one outside of perhaps a dozen or so peeps on this obscure little forum give two hoots what the likes of 'ElephantBanjoGnome' or 'Captain Caveman' have to say in the matter, whereas that certainly isn't the case out there in the wider media and blogosphere.

Whatever side of the argument one happens to sit, the question has to be asked: what sort of Scotland is it going to be at the (final) end of this (imo) ridiculously long drawn out 'neverendum'? It could be a case of no winners, all losers? :(

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:59 
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If it has invigorated political debate in Scotland, and got people who previously didn't care about politics into thinking about the future of the country (Scotland or UK, I'm leaving this ambiguous) and realising that politics and voting matters, it all won't have been entirely in vain.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:12 
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Kern wrote:
invigorated political debate in Scotland

I think it has rather inculcated a deeper 'us vs. them' divide along borders and internally in Scotland. Regardless of the outcome, people will be making a note how others voted, and remember. Bitching about this will probably never stop in one form or another.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:21 
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Really very late to the 'Heroes' party, but we've blitzed the first series and are a few episodes into the secnd. How adorable are Hiro and Ando? :luv:

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:22 
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Mimi wrote:
Really very late to the 'Heroes' party, but we've blitzed the first series and are a few episodes into the secnd. How adorable are Hiro and Ando? :luv:


Eh? :D

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:35 
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Mimi wrote:
Really very late to the 'Heroes' party, but we've blitzed the first series and are a few episodes into the secnd. How adorable are Hiro and Ando? :luv:

This is Mimi's cunning take on the independence debate. Clearly Hiro represents David Cameron, who wants to stop time in its tracks, and Ando as Alex Salmond, who wants to be a Hero but frustratingly doesn't have any powers and somewhat resents Hiro because of it.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:35 
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Stop watching it now, Mimi.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:36 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Really very late to the 'Heroes' party, but we've blitzed the first series and are a few episodes into the secnd. How adorable are Hiro and Ando? :luv:

This is Mimi's cunning take on the independence debate. Clearly Hiro represents David Cameron, who wants to stop time in its tracks, and Ando as Alex Salmond, who wants to be a Hero but frustratingly doesn't have any powers and somewhat resents Hiro because of it.


:DD

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:40 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Really very late to the 'Heroes' party, but we've blitzed the first series and are a few episodes into the secnd. How adorable are Hiro and Ando? :luv:

This is Mimi's cunning take on the independence debate. Clearly Hiro represents David Cameron, who wants to stop time in its tracks, and Ando as Alex Salmond, who wants to be a Hero but frustratingly doesn't have any powers and somewhat resents Hiro because of it.



:DD Just spat half-chewed bachelor pizza over my keyboard. Bravo!


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:47 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Really very late to the 'Heroes' party, but we've blitzed the first series and are a few episodes into the secnd. How adorable are Hiro and Ando? :luv:

This is Mimi's cunning take on the independence debate. Clearly Hiro represents David Cameron, who wants to stop time in its tracks, and Ando as Alex Salmond, who wants to be a Hero but frustratingly doesn't have any powers and somewhat resents Hiro because of it.


Bravo! :DD

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 13:56 
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Grim... wrote:
Stop watching it now, Mimi.


Nonsense! Watch all of Heroes. All of the one series they ever made.

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