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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 21:25 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Trooper wrote:
I wonder who was in charge of hiring... ;)

Funny you ask...


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 21:28 
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I suppose the thing is that it's something driven by social attitudes, and not the current government barring government control of media ala north korea. So its approximately 0% possible for scottish independence campaigners to say that scotland after independence it going to have different social attitudes as before independence.

Perhaps a convincing one if your already pro independence, but ultimately an utterly bollocks one.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 22:27 
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Cookie197 wrote:
Oh! something I've heard a few views on - The RBS is headquartered in Edinburgh.

I would imagine they'll run a mile if Scotland becomes independent.

Actually, isn't there some of rule about the amount of business the do in London meaning they wouldn't be Scottish if the countries split up, or something?

I'm possibly making that up.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 23:29 
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At the end of the day, if you want the economic view then listen to businesses over politicians. They see to presently be against independence.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 23:40 
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Legendary Boogeyman

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Maybe black people just don't want to be in successful movies badly enough, if I'm following EBG's logic; they need to be taught to aspire more or possibly work harder, or some other condescending bullshit.

That's right Gaywood, strawman against something I manifestly didn't say to try to snarkily criticise I point I made about something else, while not contributing anything worthwhile on the subject yourself.

Unless you think Grim's anecdote about racial bias in film preferences is in some way equivalent towards sexual inequality in the workplace.

I also didn't say that this was the authoritative reason for the gender pay gap. I said it was a possibility, and moderated my statement with 'perhaps' and 'maybes' where appropriate, to demonstrate it's a possible explanation that contributes towards a perception that is not as simple as mere sexual bias. But don't stop to consider the possibilities, will you? No advance in critical thinking on the last time you responded to something I said anyway.

Grim... wrote:
Nearly everyone said they were more likely to go and see the movie with white people, no matter what the race of the person filling in the questions.

This reminds me of some comedy study - I think it was mentioned on the Infinite Monkey Cage? about a racial bias towards buying colours of cheese. White people were more like to buy white cheese, and Latino people more likely to buy coloured cheese? It was a bit tongue in cheek and poorly referenced, but somewhat amusing.

Consider also that a major reason for a potential bias against women - disappearing off to look after the family, is in part due to the inequality suffered by men in paternity leave. Historically men would get nothing at all, or perhaps a day at the discretion of the employer, and then they got one or two weeks.

Now, finally, groaning into the 21st century they are afforded 26 weeks leave in an 'either or' situation if the mother returns to work - although from what I can see they still aren't entitled for the extended leave of the second 26 weeks. For the first time, it's actually feasible for the man to be the primary caregiver to a newborn baby, whereas before it was financially and legally impossible to do so on the same terms as a woman. It doesn't matter if the man was predisposed towards wanting to do this or not - it wasn't really possible to do it anyway.

So recent is this change is that culture has not caught up and the utilisation of this opportunity between the sexes is not even - that will take time. Being out of the workplace for an extended period of time is undeniably detrimental to your career prospects. Not wanting to employ a woman because she might disappear to have kids is a real concern for a small employer, but at least now the same employer knows that a man starting a family has the same opportunity to disappear for 6 months.

So yes, there is a message there to women too - you don't have to be the one to look after the kid, you don't have to be the one to put your career on hold, and you don't have to enter the workplace after your degree knowing that in a few years you might have to take a year or two off. Are you seriously saying these factors and historical obligations on a potential mother might not moderate their aspirations when entering the workforce, and thereby limit their drive and potential to be career-focussed and high earners? It is of course possible to do both, but given the way the deck has been stacked in the past it's absolutely and clearly less likely to happen, and no doubt contributes a significant amount towards the observed pay gap.

Yes, no doubt subconscious bias exists in some people's minds that may lead their candidate selection. Many employers adhere to a strict point-scoring against qualifications and experience criteria to help ascertain who is the best candidate for the job to help limit employing people based on vague and nebulous assessments. Putting hiring criteria into a framework helps, but there will never be any magic bullet to prevent bias of some kind.

On a final note, there is always much discussion of the imbalance between men and women at the top-end of earners, but nobody ever complains about there being far too many male bin men, or far too many men in dangerous workplace jobs that *could* be fulfilled by a woman. Men typically account for 93% of workplace deaths. Imagine that figure was reversed and wonder about how news articles would be shrieking about why such a problem wasn't being addressed. People that discuss sexual inequality while assuming that men have nothing to complain about don't get a great deal of regard from me.

To say that the UK is significantly unequal is patent nonsense, certainly when pitched against an assertion that an independent Scotland would magically somehow fix problems that are ingrained in culture, regardless of government.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 23:59 
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miki wrote:
And no the reason will never be "pregnancy" because that is illegal. The reason will be "someone else was more suitable for the job" which cannot be argued with.

Just reading this - and I agree, and while in some situations that might be legitimate, it others I am sure it is not. You can of course go for unfair dismissal at an employment tribunal here, and my criticism of the current state is that it's recently been made more difficult to do this - I believe it's more expensive to set up the action now, and the timeframe to put the paperwork in is very tight.

Added the fact that your employer can be an unmitigated and absolute shitbag in the lies they will tell to try to get out of it. I recently supported a friend of mine who was sacked by a well-known internet website for allegedly failing to meet her targets.

She was actually meeting them, and so the dismissal was bullshit. It was unrelated but she fell pregnant right around the time she was sacked, and was so ill with morning sickness that she was admitted to hospital and only submitted her paperwork for the unfair dismissal at the last minute.

The lawyers tried to claim she'd submitted the paperwork late by insinuating the date she was given her notice was earlier than it actually was, and then tried to say that her claims of incapacity from morning sickness were not credible due to the fact that she'd been able to send a couple of emails and make a phone call to a solicitor in that time.

They basically stonewalled and delayed at every possible opportunity, trying to mount the pressure up on her to settle. The initial offer, which came in rather early, was pathetic, and it took over a year with various hearings and stays and attempts to derail the proceedings from the other side. They really were the most inconceivable bunch of amoral fucking shitbags I've ever had the displeasure to observe.

With a bit of help she was able to hold on and create the outward impression that she was unrattled by everything, but the stress with her newborn was making her ill. Eventually a decent settlement offer came in (at least 10x the original offer I believe), and she accepted it. It was tough stuff and I was glad I wasn't the one going through it. That side of the law can definitely be looked at - it far too heavily favours the giant fuckface multinational that cares absolutely nothing for the individual, who will send 8 lawyers from a fancypants firm to merely sit across the single applicant and glare at them while one of them asks questions to try to fuck them over.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:13 
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Kern said:
Quote:
In this situation, an absentention, no matter how honorable the reasoning behind it, is not really an option. I don't think one can be completely indifferent to the most fundamental question of who they wish to be ruled by.


Fair point, but not relevant to me. I want good governance first and foremost. There are indicators - and I plumb the depths of paranoia here - that a Nationalist/independent Scotland would be intolerant, authoritarian and dictatorial.

The lurch to the right in England countenanced by the rise of UKIP and the Labour party's Tory sounding 'tough love' is equally abhorrent and unattractive.

To put it in football terms - and being from the West Coast of Scotland, why not. Your statement is like walking into a bar and being asked by the barman if you're a protestant or a catholic. I would reply neither, I'm an atheist.

The barman would then ask me if I'm a protestant atheist or a catholic atheist.

Hopefully you see the dilemma. Spoiling the ballot shows I'm still keeping the faith with the idea of democracy. I'd rather there was a 'none of the above' option.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:24 
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But we've already discussed that a No vote doesn't mean that you are voting for the status quo. The very fact there's a referendum on Scotland's membership of the UK means that a large number of Scottish people aren't happy with how things are right now (and they aren't alone, but that's another discussion entirely) and that further devolution is very much a near-certainty with a No vote. If your abstention means the Yes vote wins, how will you feel about that?

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:12 

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Cookie197 wrote:
We had a person from Yea Scotland and someone from the Better Together Campagin in School yesterday for a debate. The Yes guy was well spoken, easily answering all questions (and providing websites and such we can look to for proof). I went up to the Better Together guy at the end, and congratulated him on his amazing use of Mis-information and selective information. (He looked a little put out)
Anyway, at the end we were given bits of paper to vote on. 70% voted Yes, and 29% voted No. (1% was spoiled)


Dragging this up again, but it's really bothering me. It seems simply like the Yes guy was simply better at talking to you than the BT one was - because from the sounds of it he may as well have argued that the sky is green and trees are usually purple and the majority of you there would've been convinced enough to agree with him. Those arguments against the UK are just total made-up nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:50 
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Zio wrote:
Cookie197 wrote:
We had a person from Yea Scotland and someone from the Better Together Campagin in School yesterday for a debate. The Yes guy was well spoken, easily answering all questions (and providing websites and such we can look to for proof). I went up to the Better Together guy at the end, and congratulated him on his amazing use of Mis-information and selective information. (He looked a little put out)
Anyway, at the end we were given bits of paper to vote on. 70% voted Yes, and 29% voted No. (1% was spoiled)


Dragging this up again, but it's really bothering me. It seems simply like the Yes guy was simply better at talking to you than the BT one was - because from the sounds of it he may as well have argued that the sky is green and trees are usually purple and the majority of you there would've been convinced enough to agree with him. Those arguments against the UK are just total made-up nonsense.


I agree with this sentiment; much of the 'Yes' side's arguments are absurd, half-arsed bollocks and speculation, yet they seem to resonate with an electorate hungry for 'change' of one type or another.

Conversely, though, I believe a more powerful effect on the final vote will simply be your average voter taking a good, hard look at the vociferous, often unpleasant, embittered, nihilistic and misanthropic hard core Yes support, and simply thinking "Above all, I don't want to be them".

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:55 
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"He was a brilliant talker, and when he was arguing some difficult point he had a way of skipping from side to side and whisking his tail which was somehow very persuasive."

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:30 
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Cavey wrote:
Conversely, though, I believe a more powerful effect on the final vote will simply be your average voter taking a good, hard look at the vociferous, often unpleasant, embittered, nihilistic and misanthropic hard core Yes support, and simply thinking "Above all, I don't want to be them".

You must be confused Cavey. According to all of the nats I've 'debated' with, that element doesn't exist! What you see is merely one or two individuals giving the rest a bad name. /s

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:32 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Conversely, though, I believe a more powerful effect on the final vote will simply be your average voter taking a good, hard look at the vociferous, often unpleasant, embittered, nihilistic and misanthropic hard core Yes support, and simply thinking "Above all, I don't want to be them".

You must be confused Cavey. According to all of the nats I've 'debated' with, that element doesn't exist! What you see is merely one or two individuals giving the rest a bad name. /s


:DD

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 16:46 
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American Nervoso
Quote:
If your abstention means the Yes vote wins, how will you feel about that?


I'm going to be disappointed no matter the result. Whatever happens, I hope it's a convincing victory to whichever side. It would be unbearable for this to rumble on and on in a Neverendum. The past couple of years have already felt like a century.

A close result will give rise to some real acrimony. Despite the online hate-preaching extremists like Campbell and the Orangemen/SDL types, the debate is fairly civic. That might change.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 16:51 
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I still don't follow your logic. Do you want Scotland to be an independent country?

If no, vote no. 'Malaise' is not a good excuse.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 17:02 
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Unless you honestly don't know what your answer to the question is.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 18:10 
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Surely the logical thing for longshanker to do would be to vote for whoever he thinks is going to get the most votes so as to make the outcome a more decisive one and avoid the drawn out painful argument that would be caused by a close finish and is his greatest fear. Abstaining still doesn't make sense. P.s. I still don't know which way to vote and will probably end up making a snap decision based on how I'm feeling on the day, nobody's argument is really swinging it for me. Its like that connect four thing where nobody wins. ( a cat's game?)


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:06 
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Stu has been the target of a Daily Mail hit piece.

Quote:
But a booklet issued from the office of ‘Yes Scotland’ has named a highly controversial cyber organisation — ‘Wings Over Scotland’ — as one of several websites the public should go to for information on the referendum debate, praising the site for ‘dissecting arguments, debunking myths’ and providing information ‘you won’t find on television or in the newspapers’.

This week, a tweet issued by the same organisation described the Scottish Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone as ‘fat, troughing scum’ — hardly the words of reasoned political debate.

Despite having 1.7 million users, Wings Over Scotland is run almost single-handedly by the self-styled ‘Rev’ Stuart Campbell (no relation of cybertroll Jason in Blackpool) from a two-bedroom flat in a listed Georgian terrace in Bath, Somerset, which he shares with the six pet rats he has wittily nicknamed ‘sepa-rats’.

Based just a few hundred yards from the Assembly Rooms so beloved of Jane Austen — although the site’s postal address is in Edinburgh — the 46-year-old former video games journalist has become Scotland’s leading pro-independence blogger after building up a following of about 7,000 Twitter users and churning out nearly 50,000 tweets.

He uses the title ‘Rev’ to distinguish himself from a convicted murderer of the same name.

Despite living in England for the past two decades, Scots-born Campbell has become so successful that he has even managed to persuade his supporters to bankroll him. He has raised £150,000 to sponsor opinion polls and take out advertisements as well as to pay himself a salary.
Earlier this year, Campbell dismissed the term ‘cyber-nat’ as ‘an attempted smear intended to denigrate anyone who supports independence and can operate a computer’. He added: ‘The notion of a Great Cyber Control HQ where thousands of internet users are marshalled, co-ordinated and deployed in the service of dastardly separatist overlords is a paranoid fantasy worthy of Joe McCarthy.’

Yet it is his undisguised contempt for those who oppose Scottish independence that is causing so much offence.

‘I don’t want to find myself living in Scotland if it’s a No vote,’ he said in an interview last week (unlikely to happen, given his current residence in Somerset). ‘I couldn’t bear it. I would feel I was living in the most cowardly nation on earth.’


He put it more bluntly on Twitter: ‘If Scotland is too spineless to walk away from this in 2014, having waited for over 300 years for one chance, then f*** Scotland too.’

Aside from his abusive remarks about MSP Alex Johnstone, Campbell is responsible for several other highly distasteful outbursts.
In an exchange with the sister of Hillsborough victim Thomas Fox, he said: ‘If people stop when they get to a wall of human beings instead of ramming it, nobody dies.’ He accused other Liverpool fans of being ‘c***s’.

And away from politics, in an exchange on a video games forum, he launched into a distasteful tirade against another forum user, writing: ‘I hope you get cancer and that your cancer gets AIDS and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.’

The vile abuse raises huge questions about the man who has become such a significant player in the pro-independence camp that even the SNP is guiding its stalwarts towards his website.

Despite his vociferous outpourings, when the Mail approached him at home this week, he declined to speak. ‘Why would I want to talk to you?’ he said. ‘There’s absolutely no point.’


I'm so conflicted.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:11 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Stu has been the target of a Daily Mail hit piece.

Quote:
But a booklet issued from the office of ‘Yes Scotland’ has named a highly controversial cyber organisation — ‘Wings Over Scotland’ — as one of several websites the public should go to for information on the referendum debate, praising the site for ‘dissecting arguments, debunking myths’ and providing information ‘you won’t find on television or in the newspapers’.

This week, a tweet issued by the same organisation described the Scottish Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone as ‘fat, troughing scum’ — hardly the words of reasoned political debate.

Despite having 1.7 million users, Wings Over Scotland is run almost single-handedly by the self-styled ‘Rev’ Stuart Campbell (no relation of cybertroll Jason in Blackpool) from a two-bedroom flat in a listed Georgian terrace in Bath, Somerset, which he shares with the six pet rats he has wittily nicknamed ‘sepa-rats’.

Based just a few hundred yards from the Assembly Rooms so beloved of Jane Austen — although the site’s postal address is in Edinburgh — the 46-year-old former video games journalist has become Scotland’s leading pro-independence blogger after building up a following of about 7,000 Twitter users and churning out nearly 50,000 tweets.

He uses the title ‘Rev’ to distinguish himself from a convicted murderer of the same name.

Despite living in England for the past two decades, Scots-born Campbell has become so successful that he has even managed to persuade his supporters to bankroll him. He has raised £150,000 to sponsor opinion polls and take out advertisements as well as to pay himself a salary.
Earlier this year, Campbell dismissed the term ‘cyber-nat’ as ‘an attempted smear intended to denigrate anyone who supports independence and can operate a computer’. He added: ‘The notion of a Great Cyber Control HQ where thousands of internet users are marshalled, co-ordinated and deployed in the service of dastardly separatist overlords is a paranoid fantasy worthy of Joe McCarthy.’

Yet it is his undisguised contempt for those who oppose Scottish independence that is causing so much offence.

‘I don’t want to find myself living in Scotland if it’s a No vote,’ he said in an interview last week (unlikely to happen, given his current residence in Somerset). ‘I couldn’t bear it. I would feel I was living in the most cowardly nation on earth.’


He put it more bluntly on Twitter: ‘If Scotland is too spineless to walk away from this in 2014, having waited for over 300 years for one chance, then f*** Scotland too.’

Aside from his abusive remarks about MSP Alex Johnstone, Campbell is responsible for several other highly distasteful outbursts.
In an exchange with the sister of Hillsborough victim Thomas Fox, he said: ‘If people stop when they get to a wall of human beings instead of ramming it, nobody dies.’ He accused other Liverpool fans of being ‘c***s’.

And away from politics, in an exchange on a video games forum, he launched into a distasteful tirade against another forum user, writing: ‘I hope you get cancer and that your cancer gets AIDS and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.’

The vile abuse raises huge questions about the man who has become such a significant player in the pro-independence camp that even the SNP is guiding its stalwarts towards his website.

Despite his vociferous outpourings, when the Mail approached him at home this week, he declined to speak. ‘Why would I want to talk to you?’ he said. ‘There’s absolutely no point.’


I'm so conflicted.

It's the first time I've read an article in the Daily Mail and thought, yep, that's pretty spot on.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:21 
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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:52 
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He's not going to be arsed about this one iota, in fact I bet he's loving every minute of the attention, polarised adoration/hate (which he'll wear as a badge of honour). Oh, and 150 Large.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:13 
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Zio wrote:
Dragging this up again, but it's really bothering me. It seems simply like the Yes guy was simply better at talking to you than the BT one was - because from the sounds of it he may as well have argued that the sky is green and trees are usually purple and the majority of you there would've been convinced enough to agree with him. Those arguments against the UK are just total made-up nonsense.


I think the problems of poverty in Scotland are too complicated to be resolved just by moving to independence. To be honest, I'd have more confidence if the Scottish administration was dedicating itself to trying to solve these pressing problems using its existing powers and, where necessary, seeking the ones it doesn't have from Westminster, rather than distract everyone by this campaign.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:33 
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Sweet Potato

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"1.7 million users" is a very confused way of describing unique sessions on a blog.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 13:14 
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vegetables wrote:
"1.7 million users" is a very confused way of describing unique sessions on a blog.


And by confused, I think you mean 'wrong' ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 13:49 
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ElephantBanjoGnome:

Quote:
If no, vote no. 'Malaise' is not a good excuse.


It's the perfect excuse. I don't want to turn my back on England, but I do want to turn my back, constitutionally at least, on Westminster. There's no alternative option on the ballot paper so I'll be spoiling the ballot paper.


vegetables wrote:
Quote:
"1.7 million users" is a very confused way of describing unique sessions on a blog.


What it really means is _utma cookies. The source for the 1.7 million figure is the FT feature on Campbell. The Daily Mail piece is a rehashed collation of old and new pieces from various sources, including AhDinnaeken.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 15:16 
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It's the first time I've read an article in the Daily Mail and thought, yep, that's pretty spot on.

Yeah read that and its pretty even handed for the Mail.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 16:54 
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One of the many reasons I don't visit Whinge Over Scotland is that, apart from the fact he writes nothing but belm-handed shite, I wouldn't want to add myself to his view count, thereby increasing his self-belief that he holds sway over the masses. If the Mail is right (as much as I've never believed it to be), then his short-tempered willingness to say 'Fuck Scotland' if a majority vote no says pretty convincingly how little he thinks of 'his' country.

Longshanker - turn your back in the local, general, and european elections if you must, but I implore you not to sit on the fence for the referendum. Do something proactive if you want to effect some kind of change in the world, but your spoiled vote in this debate is nothing other than a gigantic waste of time. You might as well stay at home.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 17:13 
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Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Just did a little reading around it.

Amazingly, both men AND women showed a cognitive bias towards hiring men over women. That's tragically funny.

We did research on racial inequality in movies. We showed different people a random poster for the same movie, but each poster (I think there were six) showed the two main characters as people of varying colours (from white to black).

Nearly everyone said they were more likely to go and see the movie with white people, no matter what the race of the person filling in the questions.


I wonder if this is down to people expecting the movie industry to be a racist industry and therefore expecting that it takes an interest in investing more money in movies with white leading characters and therefore better investment equalling higher quality movies that people (of all races) will elect to see rather than the movies with assumed lower investment?

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 18:24 
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Longshanker - your analogy was way off, re: the pub.

It's more the equivalent of the landlord saying, "Do you want a drink or not?" and you just sitting there doing nothing and shouting gibberish at him.

I don't mean that your opinion is gibberish, just that your 'vote' is counted the same way as a moron who genuinely doesn't know how to use a ballot.

Voting for something that people you dislike agree with is not an endorsement of them. If you disagree with invading Iraq, but so does, say, Nigel Farage or Boris Johnson, then voting against it does not mean you agree with them in general.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 13:06 

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I follow Stu on Twitter and am thinking now I need to do one of my bi-annual log ons to Twitter to unfollow him, as I really don't like to think I'm adding to his statistics.

Is it wrong and cynical to find myself wondering what he'll do next to keep himself in crisps and Vimto once this referendum has happened?


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 13:45 
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Zio wrote:
Is it wrong and cynical to find myself wondering what he'll do next to keep himself in crisps and Vimto once this referendum has happened?

In his latest round of crowd-scrounging, he answered the question of why he was asking for a full year of support when the referendum was only 9 months away. He when with the 'well, when it DOES DEFINITELY HAPPEN, we'll need to write more stories about the aftermath' and whatnot.

If the position reported in the Mail is correct and he says 'Fuck Scotland' in the event of a No (which I'd argue he did over 20 years ago when he moved to England), then I'd imagine his blog might stop overnight. Since it's such a money-engine though I would expect there to be cries of a fix, or coverage of alleged ballot fraud or some tinfoil hat bullshit, and a few months of bitter sour grapes about how it all went wrong and how everyone is ultimately a cunt for not stopping the No vote.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 20:02 
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Sweet Potato

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I'd guess Wings might have more viability post-No than post-Yes, to be honest. There'd be a market for people who were miserable about the result for some time after it happens that it'd slot quite well into, whereas I doubt there'd be quite as broad a church of people who'd be interested in its post-Yes views.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 21:13 
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Also, a Yes vote is only the beginning of a long process, with much opportunity for Monday Morning Quarterbacking along the way.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 21:22 
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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 13:39 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Also, a Yes vote is only the beginning of a long process, with much opportunity for Monday Morning Quarterbacking along the way.


Oh, Lord, I hadn't thought of that. The separation period is going to be hell to live through in the event of a Yes, I think; I'd be astonished if there isn't at least some serious dispute between negotiating sides.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 13:43 
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vegetables wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Also, a Yes vote is only the beginning of a long process, with much opportunity for Monday Morning Quarterbacking along the way.


Oh, Lord, I hadn't thought of that. The separation period is going to be hell to live through in the event of a Yes, I think; I'd be astonished if there isn't at least some serious dispute between negotiating sides.


Which is kind of why it's risky for Yes campaigners to promise a workers' paradise.
And some day the Scottish leaders will be spotted walking on their hind legs.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 13:48 
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vegetables wrote:
I'd guess Wings might have more viability post-No than post-Yes, to be honest. There'd be a market for people who were miserable about the result for some time after it happens that it'd slot quite well into, whereas I doubt there'd be quite as broad a church of people who'd be interested in its post-Yes views.


I still toy with a view that Salmond wants to lose. Far easier, after all, to campaign and win power by continually comparing yourself to the Tory/English/etc elites in far-off Westminster than to have to rely on your own record.

That said, I get the impression the SNP adminsitration deserved to win in 2011 based on its record since 2007.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 17:02 
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Surely even Stu would back down from an ill-thought-out position rather than appear transphobic, right?

Oh, maybe not. This is about Chelsea Manning

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Pretty nasty stuff. I liked this follow up:

Quote:
From now on I am going to refer to Stu as an English, till he stops referring to Chelsea Manning as a man.


(Found via these posts: http://www.betternation.org/2014/06/yes ... -misogyny/ and http://athousandflowers.net/2013/09/01/ ... -scotland/ .)


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 17:24 
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I'd always suspected Wings would implode at some point, and after those tweets it seemed more or less a certainty. I'm surprised it's taken this long, to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 17:31 
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Yeah I mentioned this incident a while back in this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, apparently, unless you disagree with him. Then you're a 'sanctimonious wankhole'. Transgender people clearly have no right to expect others to refer to them as their chosen sex -_-

Look at the dates there vegetables, this was back in August - although from what you say you believe it's imploding now? Is something else afoot that I'm not aware of?

His current supporters *know* this is what he is; A bigoted twat. They're just like him, they love it and will throw money at him to keep doing it.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 17:38 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Look at the dates there vegetables, this was back in August - although from what you say you believe it's imploding now? Is something else afoot that I'm not aware of?


I know it was in August; I saw it when it went out. At that point I thought it was only a matter of time before someone took enough issue with him for some of the less forgiveable things he's said to be more widely distributed.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 17:42 
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Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were being slow on the uptake, I was wondering if he'd done anything recently that has torpedoed his credibility among his zealots.

I think the difference now is that he's finally managed to stir up enough misinformation, hatred and ill-feeling that he's made a couple of national newspapers write a byline about him. Unfortunately that kind of attention is the self-justifying rocket-fuel that he uses to keep on honking his opinions ever louder.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 20:19 
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Just listened to this thundering 8-minute speech by George Galloway.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... ependence/

Quote:
They want you to re-fight a battle seven hundred years ago between two French speaking Kings with Scottish people on both sides.


Vitriolic stuff, and highly enjoyable. Strange times make strange bedfellows.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 21:40 
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Kern wrote:
Just listened to this thundering 8-minute speech by George Galloway.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... ependence/

Quote:
They want you to re-fight a battle seven hundred years ago between two French speaking Kings with Scottish people on both sides.


Vitriolic stuff, and highly enjoyable. Strange times make strange bedfellows.


I haven't listened to it but I have to assume it works a lot better in context because the quotes that article pulls out aren't very compelling and, in places, don't really make a lot of sense. I mean I think it's obvious that the 'one purpose' of nationalists has got sod all to do with the relative merits of a coach company owner and an author of children's books; that's a particularly bizarre thing to come out with.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 21:50 
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Aye, it's worth listening to the whole thing. He just spews it all out in a Galloway-esque rant.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 21:52 
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Whether I agree or totally and completely disagree with Galloway I can always appreciate something in his skill of rhetoric and delivery.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 22:44 
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George Galloway is a despicable human being. Too little publicity is given to the more repulsive things he says, he couldn't be more anti-semitic and bigoted if he tried. Before he latest round of swearing in as an MP, he said on radio that his pledge to the Queen thereby would be a lie and he wouldn't mean a word of it.

But... that was a decent speech. While I'd prefer to have him removed from the UK, his words might well sway those Scots who, for reasons that are beyond me, really like him and are more ambivalent about their position on the vote.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:31 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
George Galloway is a despicable human being


Agree entirely..


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:22 
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Who, me?


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:16 
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Had half an eye on C4's Dispatches last night; turns our Salmond & Co have apparently bullied the Scots' whiskey industry/trading association into keeping schtum about their opposition to "independence" (i.e. much like most other large businesses and employers who naturally oppose also, except some of them had the balls to speak out). Much the same story with the CBI apparently, which allegedly suffered a mini-exodus (of public sector members) as allegedly orchestrated by very senior SNP figures.

The SNP: not exactly fans of democratic dissent and debate, huh? It's no wonder their Cybernat supporters adopt the tone and tactics that they do.

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