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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:49 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:51 

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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


Anyone that says that is, once again, an idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:51 
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Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:52 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Fuck me that news made me happy. Never having to hear that smug, smarmy cunt's voice ever again is the best thing to come out of the whole thing.

But, you know, bless. Poor chap. At least now he can spend more time on his folk music.


:D :this:

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:52 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


I read earlier that yes voters were burning a union flag in the square first, which kicked off some trouble. Not sure how reliable that is though, we all know what twitter is like!


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:54 
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Cookie197 wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


Anyone that says that is, once gain, an idiot.


"Megaheh"

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:55 
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Cookie197 wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


Anyone that says that is, once gain, an idiot.

My point was that either side would be saying the same about the behaviour of the other, whoever won, and the misbehaving side would be explaining it away in the same tediously mealy mouthed partisan way.

Basic point being, don't kid on that there wouldn't have been exactly the same story about the unreconstructed elements of the yessers if they'd won.

Dog bites man, basically.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:58 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 22:59 
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Trooper wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:06 
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Cookie197 wrote:
And people were saying that if Yes won, they would be intolerable.
Shows you there are people just as bad on either side.
I mean, really? BURNING the saltire? What do you hope to gain from that, apart from alienating yourself from the other 5 million people in Scotland.

These people represent Scottish unionists in the same way the IRA represents the Irish, or the EDL represents the English.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:07 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.


It was Scottish votes that stopped the UK bombing Syria last year. Scottish MP's should not have a vote on British matters, but would be welcome to vote where the whole UK is involved, anything else would be total bollocks.

Otherwise how else are we a Union?


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:11 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.


I wouldn't be so sure, as the results of the referendum show, it's possible to fool a lot of people...

Labour could well be stuck between a rock and a hard place in this, if the conservatives can gain enough populist support for "English votes for English issues". They block it, they don't get the votes to get into power, they allow it they lose the influence in Westminster...


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:13 
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asfish wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.


It was Scottish votes that stopped the UK bombing Syria last year. Scottish MP's should not have a vote on British matters, but would be welcome to vote where the whole UK is involved, anything else would be total bollocks.

Otherwise how else are we a Union?


I don't think you meant to type British there did you? :D


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 23:13 
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asfish wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.


But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.


It was Scottish votes that stopped the UK bombing Syria last year. Scottish MP's should not have a vote on British matters, but would be welcome to vote where the whole UK is involved, anything else would be total bollocks.

Otherwise how else are we a Union?

That's the whole flipping point, man. They will be able to vote on "UK" matters, but won't be able to vote on "English" matters, which includes stuff like the NHS (given that, among other things, NHS control in Scotland is devolved), which means a Labour government with a majority in the HoC won't actually be able to pass legislation on major vote winning stuff like the NHS or University tuition in England. So they won't agree to it.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 0:17 

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American Nervoso wrote:
Cookie197 wrote:
And people were saying that if Yes won, they would be intolerable.
Shows you there are people just as bad on either side.
I mean, really? BURNING the saltire? What do you hope to gain from that, apart from alienating yourself from the other 5 million people in Scotland.

These people represent Scottish unionists in the same way the IRA represents the Irish, or the EDL represents the English.


I did point out the whole 'other 5 million' to try show it was a minority of people.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:08 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Cookie197 wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz.


Anyone that says that is, once gain, an idiot.

My point was that either side would be saying the same about the behaviour of the other, whoever won, and the misbehaving side would be explaining it away in the same tediously mealy mouthed partisan way.

Basic point being, don't kid on that there wouldn't have been exactly the same story about the unreconstructed elements of the yessers if they'd won.

Dog bites man, basically.


Yes, there's a tiny idiot minority on both sides. That tiny idiot minority is making an arse if themselves on both sides with the mentality that they enjoy spoiling for a fight and the associated adrenaline and this is their latest excuse to exercise that feeling. It'd be football or some other excuse at another time. They're adrenaline junkies with no skill for sport or activity. Idiots all.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:14 
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D'oh! Something a bit more lighthearted, I hope!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-fr ... e-29278589

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 13:01 
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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 21:11 
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Saw this today:
Results of 1991 referendum to preserve the Soviet Union
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So expect Hadrian's Wall to fall down in a few months with The Hoff dancing atop of it.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 23:48 
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If you want a new source of amusement, google 'We are the 45%' and see how well the sour grape merchants are taking things. There's even a bloody twibbon for it.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:54 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
If you want a new source of amusement, google 'We are the 45%'


The 45? Isn't that the final Jacobite uprising? Didn't go very well, so far as I can remember. At least Salmond hasn't fled to France after his defeat.

If you're up near Inverness, visit the Culloden battlefield. The visitor centre is up there with the best ACW ones I've been to. I'll have to write the trip up sometime.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:55 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
'We are the 45%'


Quote:
We are the 45%; the spirit of Yes; the people of Yes, pressing onward for justice, equality, hope, intelligence and freedom. For you, for Scotland, for humanity


I hate all those things, that why I was advocating for 'No'.

Still, come on everyone. We've another 307 years of oppressing to be getting on with.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:56 
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No voters were tricked according to Salmond or Sour Grapes as he is now known :p

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29296282


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:44 
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Mimi wrote:
D'oh! Something a bit more lighthearted, I hope!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-fr ... e-29278589


i feel bad for the scottish for having the "support" from the likes of these racists, and also from those catalonian smugs.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:51 
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asfish wrote:
No voters were tricked according to Salmond or Sour Grapes as he is now known :p


I misread that as 'no voters' rather than 'people who voted 'no' :facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:07 
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Man, is there anything quite so odious and pathetic in life, as a sore loser?

Gah. GTFF.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:44 
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Cavey wrote:
Man, is there anything quite so odious and pathetic in life, as a sore loser.

They've all gone out and bought fresh axes to grind. The resentment and bitterness will enslave them indefinitely.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:06 
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Hot on the heels of Salmond conceding defeat and the democratic will of the Scottish people, and resigning, he's now apparently openly talking about UDI (i.e. a coup, basically):


Quote:
Alex Salmond has raised the prospect of Scotland unilaterally declaring independence without another referendum as he abandoned his promise to accept the result and claimed that No voters were “tricked”.

Despite it being illegal, the First Minister argued the Scottish Parliament could say Scotland was leaving the United Kingdom at the point at which it had been devolved so many powers it was effectively independent.

The First Minister appeared to blame elderly Scots, who were most hostile to leaving the UK, for holding back younger generations and argued that independence is inevitable after they die off.
In a startling intervention, he also claimed that another referendum may not be required to break up Britain as the Scottish Parliament could unilaterally declare independence after gaining increasing numbers of powers.

Jim Sillars, his former mentor and a former SNP deputy leader, tweeted that the nationalists should “assert” a new rule that Scotland would become independent if separatist parties won a majority of votes and seats at the 2016 Holyrood election.
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But opposition parties said Mr Salmond’s comments were akin to him proposing an “illegal coup” and were an “insult to the people of Scotland.” Adam Tomkins, professor of public law at the University of Glasgow, said unilaterally declaring independence was illegal and “bonkers”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... icked.html

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:31 
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This is what people fail to understand about the nationalists - they're extremists operating under the guise of reason and legitimacy. The ultimate goal has always been independence at all costs. At all costs. The arguments don't actually matter - they're merely the tool to convince the masses to lend them the political power to achieve their aims. They wanted independence before oil was a thing, and god knows how they'd planned to fund the country back then - but good reasons didn't matter then and they don't now.

Full devolution would make independence entirely unnecessary, and now Salmond is saying that in that event they'd then just be able to declare it unilaterally anyway. Or stick independence in their manifesto and declare it in the event of a majority SNP government. Totes legit.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:33 
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No doubt the best thing to happen to the SNP's electoral prospects has been losing the referendum. They can remain an anti-establishment party and continue to blame policy failings on London.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:26 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
This is what people fail to understand about the nationalists - they're extremists operating under the guise of reason and legitimacy. The ultimate goal has always been independence at all costs. At all costs. The arguments don't actually matter - they're merely the tool to convince the masses to lend them the political power to achieve their aims. They wanted independence before oil was a thing, and god knows how they'd planned to fund the country back then - but good reasons didn't matter then and they don't now.


That's just bollocks though.

It's the rantiest and craziest ones who'll get on telly and make the most kerfuffle on the internet, but to say that all nationalists and extremists is patently nonsensical.

I'm in touch with a few people who voted 'Yes', they didn't get what they wanted, they're disappointed, they think it's a missed opportunity for Scotland, but they're carrying on with their lives in a perfectly civilised fashion and they accept the result.

I'm sure some nationalists are mental extremists, but let's keep a sense of perspective. (Also the idea that they're all dreadfully 'sore losers' is crap, too.)


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:31 
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Hearthly wrote:
I'm in touch with a few people who voted 'Yes', they didn't get what they wanted, they're disappointed, they think it's a missed opportunity for Scotland, but they're carrying on with their lives in a perfectly civilised fashion and they accept the result.

I know a couple of people like this too. I'm not casting aspersions on them. Nor am I calling all Yes voters bad losers. That would be silly. I'm calling the people that have absolutely demonstrated their sore-losership/sour grape/cries of a fix absolutely whiny, embittered idiots.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 15:15 
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I have eventually written a very rumbling blart on some post-result thoughts, should anyone here give enough of a toss to read them:

[deleted]

Really I should split it up in a series of smaller articles that cover each particular aspect, but nobody is throwing money at me for my opinion ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 17:29 
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Looks interesting mate, I shall have a read later. :)

According to other sources, Yougov has apparently concluded that of the 16-14, 25-39, 40-59, 60-64 and 65+ age groups, ONLY 25-39 voted Yes as a majority?

I must admit that's surprising, and seems to go against this very unpleasant narrative of blaming OAPs and even wishing them into an early grave (yes really) that I have been seeing from some quarters.

...The idealistic 16-24 demographic voted No? Wow, that does amaze me, I must admit. Says it all.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 17:47 
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Cavey wrote:
...The idealistic 16-24 demographic voted No? Wow, that does amaze me, I must admit. Says it all.

I believe some of the earlier polls put the 16/17 vote as a net backfire for the SNP in that it seemed to be a majority No. I think they'd assumed the young were easier to dupe but they turned out to be too discerning after all.

I too saw the reports of Salmond saying that the old have held the young back and it would be different after they were dead (paraphrase). He's gone into a full mental rant phase now, knowing that he's pretty much finished politically and on his way out of the door. He'll always have enough core support to stay an MSP for as long as he likes, so he might as well scattergun some of his madder ravings in the meantime.

I think it's 25-39 year old males that make up the core of the Yes vote. This doesn't exactly surprise me.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:14 
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Can we end all this talk of the Queen 'purring'? It's making me feel really uncomfortable.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:14 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
I have eventually written a very rumbling blart on some post-result thoughts, should anyone here give enough of a toss to read them:

http://www.petewilcock.com/result-of-th ... the-words/

Really I should split it up in a series of smaller articles that cover each particular aspect, but nobody is throwing money at me for my opinion ;)


GOod stuff EBG. Might make some comments later.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:34 
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Kern wrote:
Can we end all this talk of the Queen 'purring'? It's making me feel really uncomfortable.

I remain utterly amazed that politicians still don't know to shut the fuck up in the vicinity of a camera or microphone. Oh, and also not to make such belmworthy conversation to start with.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 21:15 
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And finally, the the good people of Lewes get the last word:

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 22:58 
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Ooh I see the cybernats have exploded in outrage! How very amusing. 'Imagine if an SNP council did this!' they're saying. I don't doubt they would have if they'd thought of it, and then told any detractors to find a sense of humour.

Now the ref is over I've gone back to normal, daily life, while those still rushing around being angry at everything about UK have gone back to being a quirky waste of time.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 23:24 
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Sleepyhead

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The same place did Cameron himself two years back, so it's hardly like this is some new thing.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:11 
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I'm looking forward to the Smith Commission's report on what the final settlement should look like. The leaks so far suggest they'll recommend almost full tax devolution and quite a bit of welfare stuff. We'll have to wait until the full report comes out, and then the parliamentary battle to pass it, but I'm starting to wonder if the biggest demands for a divorce in years to come will be from the English. Interesting times.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:08 
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Skimmed it last night. It really does offer a lot to Scotland. The taxation and welfare powers are substantial, although will have knock-on effects for England as the document makes no attempt to answer the West Lothian question.

Making the constitution up as we go along has always served us well but radical changes like this to one part of the Union will need careful management and leadership to contain and regulate jealousies arising in other parts. I just feel that the current crop of political leaders lack the strength to successfully oversee such great changes.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:55 
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Legendary Boogeyman

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Quote:
It really does offer a lot to Scotland

Predictably, the moronic nationalists are outraged it's not complete Home Rule and are now honking VOW BROKEN VOW BROKEN THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR VOTING NO WHINE WHINE.

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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 15:42 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Quote:
It really does offer a lot to Scotland

Predictably, the moronic nationalists are outraged it's not complete Home Rule and are now honking VOW BROKEN VOW BROKEN THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR VOTING NO WHINE WHINE.


Today's Steve Bell cartoon sums it up best.

But I think the SNP have to publically complain about it not going far, otherwise they'll annoy a lot of their core support. They were represented on the commission - I think that represents their internal view (for now).


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 19:02 

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The bit of this that interests me the most is what we're actually going to get.
Papers are acting like the Smith Commission report IS what is going to happen, they're acting as if it dictates exactly what Westminster will give to Holyrood.
But it doesn't, does it? It's a recommendation, and that's it.
If Westminster wanted, they could ignore half of the stuff in it. I want to know what we're actually GOING to get. Not what the Smith Commission thinks we SHOULD get.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 20:58 
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We'll know when the bill is published. All 3 parties are behind it, which means that even though it will be after the election until it gets passed, it is unlikely to be dropped. And if things change between now and then, well, that's politics.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:32 
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Haven't had a chance to read the proposals annouced yesterday in any great depth, and won't have time this weekend. Will probably pour myself a glass of port sometime next week and digest them.

In other news, I'm planning a trip to Scotland for later this year. Not allowed to drink out of the Ben Nevis mug that forms part of the national 3 peaks set Malia & MrsA got me for Christmas until I've summited it.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 13:31 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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That's a big mug.


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 Post subject: Re: The end of the UK?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 14:43 
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That's a big mug.

Said everyone as DazPaz walked in.

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