The end of the UK?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Cavey wrote:

In fairness to Stu, a quite dignified sign off blog post from him on his site, I thought.
Fair play; credit where it's due.

Really? "We only lost because of a giant conspiracy theory and because everyone was too stupid to agree with me and now the world's going to end" is not really what I'd call dignified.

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:21

The quick squizz I have had through the news articles seems to suggest that Scotland is populated by attractive but tearful 18-25 year old women.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

MaliA wrote:

The quick squizz I have had through the news articles seems to suggest that Scotland is populated by attractive but tearful 18-25 year old women.

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:24

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Cavey wrote:

In fairness to Stu, a quite dignified sign off blog post from him on his site, I thought.
Fair play; credit where it's due.

Really? "We only lost because of a giant conspiracy theory and because everyone was too stupid to agree with me and now the world's going to end" is not really what I'd call dignified.

Take your point, but it could've been worse. At least he's accepted the result with some modicum of grace.

(Mind you, some of the subsequent comments don't look too clever...)

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Cavey wrote:

Fair play; credit where it's due.

Which site are you reading? I've given him the hit and found a whiny diatribe about how the country 'bottled it', rather than a humilifying admission that the Yes camp simply failed to make the case. Like every other sour grape merchant, he's blamed fear for the defeat, instead of the simple truth that the nonsense was built on dreams and not reality.

Meanwhile there's no mention of the fact that he asked for, and was funded for, a full year of rabid blog-posting. Now he alleges to be taking time off to 'consider', which I take to mean doing fuck all while spending the money of others. He pathetic cult of followers have begged him to remain, and no doubt some of the more idiotic will throw good money after bad in the attempt to keep him writing *something*.

His wearied, depressive defeat is absolutely delightful, considering he's being the willing vendor of barely concealed hatred and the instigator if cybernat mobs for the last 18 months. The schadenfreude for his woe brings a smile to my face.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22270

The results if it had been first past the post...

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

The whole country would have voted for an independent fuscia?

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:39

Yeah, well, I've always had a soft spot for old Stu, despite everything.

I feel sorry for him - which I know he'll hate - but still. It's a pisser to lose everything you've passionately hoped for.

EDIT: That's an amazing graphic, Troop. Very revealing I'd say.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

Cavey wrote:

Fair play; credit where it's due.

Which site are you reading? I've given him the hit and found a whiny diatribe about how the country 'bottled it', rather than a humilifying admission that the Yes camp simply failed to make the case. Like every other sour grape merchant, he's blamed fear for the defeat, instead of the simple truth that the nonsense was built on dreams and not reality.

Meanwhile there's no mention of the fact that he asked for, and was funded for, a full year of rabid blog-posting. Now he alleges to be taking time off to 'consider', which I take to mean doing fuck all while spending the money of others. He pathetic cult of followers have begged him to remain, and no doubt some of the more idiotic will throw good money after bad in the attempt to keep him writing *something*.

His wearied, depressive defeat is absolutely delightful, considering he's being the willing vendor of barely concealed hatred and the instigator if cybernat mobs for the last 18 months. The schadenfreude for his woe brings a smile to my face.

He has done well to get £250,000 of donations from willing people to post a blog and make a living out of it. What was his plan if it was a Yes vote? You could argue that there would have been less for him to do if the vote went to Yes as he had in effect been successful with his blog.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Talking of which, is the STV news site known for it's biting satire and I've been missing out by ignoring it all this time:

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/292504-indy ... -campaign/

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:47

asfish wrote:

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

Cavey wrote:

Fair play; credit where it's due.

Which site are you reading? I've given him the hit and found a whiny diatribe about how the country 'bottled it', rather than a humilifying admission that the Yes camp simply failed to make the case. Like every other sour grape merchant, he's blamed fear for the defeat, instead of the simple truth that the nonsense was built on dreams and not reality.

Meanwhile there's no mention of the fact that he asked for, and was funded for, a full year of rabid blog-posting. Now he alleges to be taking time off to 'consider', which I take to mean doing fuck all while spending the money of others. He pathetic cult of followers have begged him to remain, and no doubt some of the more idiotic will throw good money after bad in the attempt to keep him writing *something*.

His wearied, depressive defeat is absolutely delightful, considering he's being the willing vendor of barely concealed hatred and the instigator if cybernat mobs for the last 18 months. The schadenfreude for his woe brings a smile to my face.

He has done well to get £250,000 of donations from willing people to post a blog and make a living out of it. What was his plan if it was a Yes vote? You could argue that there would have been less for him to do if the vote went to Yes as he had in effect been successful with his blog.

A Yes vote would have meant months and months more work reviewing what was going on. A no vote stops it all to a point as once Parliament does its thing that is it. The change narrative is shorter with No.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Bamba wrote:

Talking of which, is the STV news site known for it's biting satire and I've been missing out by ignoring it all this time:

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/292504-indy ... -campaign/

Thats quite fabulous. Has one of the interns had enough and gone postal?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

The whole country would have voted for an independent fuscia?

Oh come on, fuckers.

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:59

<snigger, snort>

Yeah, impossible not to belly laugh, sorry.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

I've got a BT engineer here at the moment and he looks properly fucking miserable. I dare not ask.

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:05

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

I've got a BT engineer here at the moment and he looks properly fucking miserable. I dare not ask.

Ask him if his name is William.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38460

His name is Stuart William Stuart and the price of woad has tripled overnight

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

I've got a BT engineer here at the moment and he looks properly fucking miserable. I dare not ask.

You'll be lucky if he doesn't leave a massive keech somewhere in your house, you imperialist English scum.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Hey as long as he leaves me with a working phone line I don't care if he smears 'FREEDOM' over the walls in shit.

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:13

Way to fuck up my "Phone Bill" joke.

Morte · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:36

So now we've got that out of the way: How long will it be before the media moves onto two plus years of "noise" about the proposed In / Out of the EU vote?

Two+ years of Nigel Farrage, just shoot me now.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

If we've got a bullet going spare, just shoot Farage.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:43

What will be painful to watch is 'Better Together' people suddenly banging on about being better apart.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Amazing how one day the Scots are the bravest, canniest folk in the world who are going to build Utopia; and the next day half of them are idiotic, timorous fearties taken in by teh evilz English media scare stories.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22270

Oh, dear lord...

https://www.change.org/p/alex-salmond-w ... al-parties

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Jesus Christ.

TheCookie197 · **Joined:** 23rd Sep, 2010 **Posts:** 729

asfish wrote:

Cameron will also start so see UK backlash now, personally I don't see why Scotland gets more money per head from Westminster and has free prescriptions and the UK doesn't.

By the 'UK', I'll assume you mean Wales, England and Northern Ireland. Ireland gets MORE per head than Scotland. Wales gets more than England, but a bit less than Scotland. And England gets the least.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Northern Ireland gets more because they have to pay for more policing due to the absolute nutters who live there. I'd be equally as happy for NI to feck off and rejoin Eire, frankly. I have no idea why we want it as part of the UK.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

I'm very interested to hear about how you're feeling about the result and the future cookie.

TheCookie197 · **Joined:** 23rd Sep, 2010 **Posts:** 729

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

I'm very interested to hear about how you're feeling about the result and the future cookie.

Unhappy, obviously. But also unsurprised. Bit confused as to why some 'strongholds' ended up with such narrow votes. (No idea why North Ayrshire ended up a No.)
I think my views are best explained by my facebook post this morning:

Facebook wrote:

Yesterday, Scotland voted No. Today, 1.9 million people will rejoice, while 1.5 million will stagger through the day in disbelief.
On the 16th of October 2014, Gordon Brown will bring a debate to the house of Commons about Scotland receiving more powers.

Many are saying it's turned into a "win-win" for Alex Salmond, but it will end up being far from that. Many MPs have already shown that they HATE the idea of ANY more powers for Scotland. When it comes to the time for them to vote on it, over two thirds of them are expected to vote No to carry the motion of giving more powers. Even if we ARE given new powers, it will be nothing on the scale of what Gordon Brown has said, and absolutely nothing like 'Devo-Max'.
Let's not forget that if we do get new powers, it will likely be ones that require money to function. If they give them to us, where will we get money now? Westminster is not going to give us any more of our own, it's too busy being used to build duck ponds.

So, that's it. Few (if any) new powers, no preventing poverty, no closing food banks, no looking after our own country like 200 others around the world.

I hope Scotland really DID think about what it was doing, but looking at the result?
I doubt enough of us did.

I'm worried about these new powers. I'm worried Westminster will give us powers that require money that we won't have due to the cuts being made on the Budget.
I'm worried about the future.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22270

The same FPTP picture as before, but shaded by percentages. (plus other analysis)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29255449

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

I have no idea why we want it as part of the UK.

I'm quite disappointed you've posted that chap. I've met many a lovely norn iron folk, and while there's much difficult history, more recent than any gripe Scotland thinks it has I'm happy to have them in the gang if they want to be included.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

I wasn't being entirely serious, gnomes.

However, there is a valid question to be asked from all corners of the union as to why it exists, and what's in it for the various bits. On a purely monetary level, I'm not sure the average englisher would, if asked, vote to keep NI, Wales and Scotland in the union.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

To Cookie, I'd ask you to stay your worry and see what comes of the next 6 months. I think it would be foolish on the extreme to further alienate the nationalist element of Scotland by failing to come through with the greater devolved powers as promised. As someone who has always supported greater devolution, it would piss me off as much as anyone if we got fobbed off, and I wouldn't forgive that lightly.

My hope is that, as much as I hate to say it, this will be the best of both. Max devolved powers, control over income and spending while benefitting from what the UK offers.

If this doesn't happen for any reason, the betrayal will persist until a referendum happens again, and the result a second time won't even be close.

TheCookie197 · **Joined:** 23rd Sep, 2010 **Posts:** 729

What powers have they said we are actually going to have? All I've heard about is tax, tax and tax.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

That said – in all honesty I can’t really see why NI is still part of the Union, because of how we came to own it in the first place. We only had it in the first place because we nicked Ireland, and then only gave back some of it, keeping the bit that the Proddies lived in because they were scared of the pope and it was politically inexpedient at the time to go against them, and have kept hold of it since because a sizeable minority can’t behave like grown ups and stop shooting each other without being made to.

Wales I can understand, because it’s never actually been a country; rather it's just the bit of the kingdom the heir to the throne gets to practise on.*

I’m half Irish, by the way, and have very little sense of English (or any other) national identity, considering the Treaty of Westphalia to be something of a step backwards in human social evolution.

On the devolution point - I still think the Tories are going to massively screw Scotland over, by making it conditional on carving Labour Scottish MPs out of votes on "English" issues (like key things such as the NHS, for example), making any future Labour government hamstrung from the outset.

*Nationalism note to Gaywood - not being entirely serious here.

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:00

Cookie197 wrote:

All I've heard about is tax, tax and tax.

The ability to raise your own money through taxation, rather than rely on a grant, is generally considered to be better and a sign of more independence and discretion than being solely dependent on a central government grant that could be removed or reduced on a whim. Of course, it also means you have to think carefully about the rate you set it, and whether you have the taxbase to pay it. But it's your money, not Westminster's.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

Cookie197 wrote:

What powers have they said we are actually going to have? All I've heard about is tax, tax and tax.

Taxes, how the NHS is Scotland is run and also the continuation of the Barnett allocation.

The usual politician pledge no dates, key points interlinked to each other and all 3 leaders having different details on things like taxes.

Hate to say this but don't hold your breath as they are all lying slippery tossers,

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38460

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

the bit that that Proddies lived in

Who were only there in the first place because the English put them there. And they were Scots

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:01

I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

DavPaz wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

the bit that that Proddies lived in

Who were only there in the first place because the English put them there. And they were Scots

I know! We're such meddling tits.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

Kern wrote:

Cookie197 wrote:

All I've heard about is tax, tax and tax.

The ability to raise your own money through taxation, rather than rely on a grant, is generally considered to be better and a sign of more independence and discretion than being solely dependent on a central government grant that could be removed or reduced on a whim. Of course, it also means you have to think carefully about the rate you set it, and whether you have the taxbase to pay it. But it's your money, not Westminster's.

All fine until you have to raise taxes and don't have a grant to fall back on, then your voters hate you as everyone hates taxes

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38460

Kern wrote:

I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.

" "May you live in interesting times" - Ancient Proverb" - DavPaz

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

All of Salmond's Scottish money trees have died because of the English.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22270

Kern wrote:

I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.

Hair raising stuff for sure, it was always on the fringe before this, now it's coming to a head.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38460

Trooper wrote:

Kern wrote:

I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.

Hair raising stuff for sure, it was always on the fringe before this, now it's coming to a head.

Here wig-o again

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:11

DavPaz wrote:

Trooper wrote:

Kern wrote:

I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.

Hair raising stuff for sure, it was always on the fringe before this, now it's coming to a head.

Here wig-o again

The Tories are taking a little off the top.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38460

Cuts. Typical.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Its nothing to be Afro-ed of.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:26

I'm still pissed off that I pay more tax than the scottish or something. I've got bills toupee!

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The end of the UK?
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