Be Excellent To Each Other

My major contribution to this thread has been to call Yes voters ignorant chip-scoffing whisky-addled peons. Admittedly I find that pretty interesting but I doubt anyone else does.

This morning I happened to notice an extreme proliferation of Yes banners and flags surrounding a particularly chavvy high rise in north Edinburgh. I'm sure that says something.

In 1997 and 2001 Labour had a majorities of 179 and 167 in 2005 it had shrunk to 66 and then they lost so clearly the whimsy of those floating voters had a very large effect.

You are both forgetting that people actually age and die and the voting populace is not the same in any given election.

And people like Galloway, getting large voting blocks to turn out for him.

Incidentally, what he is doing Scotland rather than looking after Bradford God only knows.

Don't know if this has been covered before, but assuming a split, what would happen to people's nationality?

Would you have to apply to be Scottish or would it be automatically decided for you, and what criteria would be used?

If you happen to be living north of the border, at the time are you opted in, and what about those of Scottish descent who happen to be down south?
Do you have to prove eligibility?

As I understand it, nobody's going to have British citizenship revoked. There's a list of eligability criteria for then getting Scottish citizenship which is very broad. Newly born Scots would then only get Scottish, not both.

Trying to decide if I want to watch the BBC's debate tonight where 16 and 17 year olds will be forming the audience (21:00 in Scotland, 22:40 on BBC1 elsewhere). Remembering how irritatingly self-righteous young Kern was at that age, I might find it a difficult watch.

Handy chart.

Also, where's the fun in being allowed to vote if you can't legally give yourself dutch courage before going in to the polling booth?

Thanks. So we all move to Scotland a month before?

That's the plan.

That is handy. Interesting that they are going to "claim" anyone living north of the border whether they want to be scottish or not.

It's that or you become an overnight illegal immigrant, I guess!

Very interesting. I assume you can refuse? If I had been living in Scotland, I would still want to stay English.

But you could easily grant leave to remain without citizenship.

You would be dual nationality. British and Scottish. You wouldn't lose your UK passport!

What about British Citizens, born in England, living in England but with 1 Scottish Parent?

Malc

I can't help but think that if these citizenship rules aren't very tightly drawn-up, the Scottish courts would be kept busy for a very long time.

Not Scottish until you register and prove it.

Not clear if that parent has to be living. Reads like they do, which is strange.

That's a bit crap then, I expect it would be a minor hassle to get rid of the Scottish part, but a hassle none the less.

I'm not sure I can really see why anyone would rather be a resident alien than a citizen.

Tax.

I might not be an issue, but not knowing the proposed tax laws for New Scotland, it could turn out to be.

Would also cost money to renounce your Scottish nationality, if the British system is anything to go by:


https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality/apply

This is why a lot of people are giving up their US citizenship.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24135021

£144! New Scotland is going to the dogs, this country is a disgrace, it was better back in my day, etc...

Living in Scotland at the mo, but you know it's not a permanent arrangement and you know you are going back to England.

They could of course, just not want to be Scottish.
If you suggested to Scots living in the UK that they would be given English nationality rather than just UK, I'm sure you'll get a few choice words from some of them.

Being granted Scottish citizenship isn't the same as saying 'now you're Scottish' - you do realise this?

To paraphrase Paul Merton, I'm claiming Swedish citizenship as I feel very spiritually close to the heritage of my furniture.

Hot on the heels of billions of pounds being wiped off the value of Scottish companies off the back of ONE opinion poll showing Yes ahead by ONE PERCENT, RBS, Lloyds and Tesco Bank all saying they'll move to England in the event of a Yes vote today.

Of course, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be popular with everyone.

If the vote is going to be as close as we're expecting, then half the population are going to be unhappy in either case.

That was always going to be the case, though. As I understood it they'd have to because of needing to be based in the same region where they do the most work, or something.

I suspect someone cleverer will tell me I'm wrong, however.

At this point I'd say there was a compelling case for businesses to move south regardless of the result. Why risk potential future uncertainty?

The citizenship test will have a practical section involving the gay gordons, playing the bagpipes (marks deducted for tunefulness), and caber-tossing.

A country that doesnt rely on huge multinational corporations and banks? Actually sounds like somewhere I'd like to live.

Not sure I follow? Plenty of Scots individuals and businesses use these banks.

But regardless, even in that case (as opposed to other concerns about a run on the bank, capital flight, 'dollarisation' and no State control over monetary policies/interest rates, international interest rates imposed on an iScotland State, possibly defaulting or otherwise, and/or a lack of lender of last resort), it would still be a direct result and 'dividend' of a Yes vote.

Would have thought it had something to do with the location of your brass plate determining which jurisdiction and central bank you want to be governed by. The assumption being that a London plate will give you access to the Bank of England and the UK's credit rating.

Mmm. Don't know about that; the last Indyref was in 1979, more than 30 years ago. One assumes this won't be a regular occurrence (though to be fair, the way some cybernats talk about this, one can never be sure - so perhaps you have a point?)

RBS moving to England should count as a blessing for Scotland anyway - means they wouldn't have to bail them out again.

Half those who bothered to vote, anyway.
I'd be happier with the outcome if we get greater than 50% of the eligible votes for one side or another, as at least that way we'll have a proper answer about what the majority of Scots wanted.

If we get 51/49 split on the votes but only 70% turnout then we'll never hear the end of it from the side that "lost"

Not really, no. The BAD bit (and yes, it was a really bad bit) has been done now; at least now reap the benefits of the jobs, corporation tax and VAT receipts etc. moving forwards and local supply chain commerce, after the fact. Otherwise it's a bit like stumping up a £500k bill on your £200k supercar, then just giving it away.

I hear that Venezuela is lovely this time of year, as Socialist Utopias go.

(Shame about the 60% inflation rate, mass corruption and the fact it's completely on its arse and about to default massively, quelle surprise).

Why? By definition, the other 30% don't care, so you can't add them to either side.

If the 'no' vote lose narrowly, they will have to lump it. Of course, it is possible that the negotiations are strung out so there is another Holyrood election that sweeps the SNP out of power, and the incoming administration calls a second referedum 'on the terms of the agreed/potential treaty', allowing for a revocation of it. But I feel that would be unlikely.

I still think that the final terms should be put to a vote though.

Corp tax has nothing to do with where a company's headquarters are based, does it? Otherwise all the tax for companies like Ikea (for example) would leave the country.

Also I don't think they're planning to move any jobs.

Eh? I thought a company paid Corporation Tax in the country in which they are headquartered/listed/incorporated (i.e. not Ikea). APOD's our man here, I suspect.

As regards jobs, that might well be the case on Day One but I hardly think that'd remain so. Canary Wharf, here we come etc.

Exactly! RBS liabilities are significantly greater than the entire Scottish GDP! Scotland don't want them.

I'd hope not, and while an immediate move south would be prohibitively costly in the event of a No vote, there may nonetheless be a slow trickle of asset movement south. 'That new operations centre? Yep fellas, we'd best site that in England'. Elements that would naturally be renewed over time could find themselves redeployed in the south. Costs to relocate would be minimised in the event this bollocks rolls around again in the future.

Relatedly, if we suddenly became friends with Russia again, would be breathe a sigh if relief about gas supplies or use the stability to begin a slow move away from that risky dependence?

Yeah those thousands of jobs are a real ball and chain.