The end of the UK?

Kern · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2014 14:00

Quote:

And the population density one. Oh no, suddenly we're more crammed in now Scotland is gone! *hyperventilates*

Vote yes to make those sassenachs live longer, more uncomfortable lives.

Kern · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2014 14:02

I liked the bits about size though.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

American Nervoso wrote:

Kern wrote:

That life-expectancy one is quite possibly the most pointless statistic I've seen in a long time.

And the population density one. Oh no, suddenly we're more crammed in now Scotland is gone! *hyperventilates*

It's true, if we dump you assholes each of the walls in your house suddenly move in three feet!

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2014 14:03

American Nervoso wrote:

Kern wrote:

That life-expectancy one is quite possibly the most pointless statistic I've seen in a long time.

And the population density one. Oh no, suddenly we're more crammed in now Scotland is gone! *hyperventilates*

Well, maybe it's not so pointless. Bear in mind that unpopulated land is often farmland. You like food, right?

myp · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2014 14:09

Grim... wrote:

American Nervoso wrote:

Kern wrote:

That life-expectancy one is quite possibly the most pointless statistic I've seen in a long time.

And the population density one. Oh no, suddenly we're more crammed in now Scotland is gone! *hyperventilates*

Well, maybe it's not so pointless. Bear in mind that unpopulated land is often farmland. You like food, right?

Because we won't be able to import food from Scotland at all.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Scotland has no farmland at all. It's all the boggy fens that are the roaming grounds of the wild haggis, and Irn Bru factories.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Cras wrote:

Scotland has no farmland at all. It's all the boggy fens that are the roaming grounds of the wild haggis, and Irn Bru factories.

You forgot the heroin meadows.

ETA: And the lakes of naturally boiling chip fat in which we fry all our Mars bars.

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2014 14:29

Bamba wrote:

Cras wrote:

Scotland has no farmland at all. It's all the boggy fens that are the roaming grounds of the wild haggis, and Irn Bru factories.

You forgot the heroin meadows.

ETA: And the lakes of naturally boiling chip fat in which we fry all our Mars bars.

I must of misheard, I thought it was all meadows from her' on in.

myp · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2014 14:31

Bamba wrote:

You forgot the heroin meadows.

ETA: And the lakes of naturally boiling chip fat in which we fry all our Mars bars.

It's funny because it's true.

Pod · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2568

They should have split England into "London" and "not London".

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Nice stats, and I think the age stat is interesting. Obviously you won't start living longer, but it just shows how unhealthy Scots are dragging down the average.

Most interesting, all the stats relating to its contribution and economic power show it punching at below its proportional rate at 8% of population. And presumably this includes oil? Eeeash.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:37

American Nervoso wrote:

Grim... wrote:

American Nervoso wrote:

Kern wrote:

That life-expectancy one is quite possibly the most pointless statistic I've seen in a long time.

And the population density one. Oh no, suddenly we're more crammed in now Scotland is gone! *hyperventilates*

Well, maybe it's not so pointless. Bear in mind that unpopulated land is often farmland. You like food, right?

Because we won't be able to import food from Scotland at all.

Depends how much it costs, I guess.

Cavey · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:40

Grim... wrote:

American Nervoso wrote:

Grim... wrote:

American Nervoso wrote:

Kern wrote:

That life-expectancy one is quite possibly the most pointless statistic I've seen in a long time.

And the population density one. Oh no, suddenly we're more crammed in now Scotland is gone! *hyperventilates*

Well, maybe it's not so pointless. Bear in mind that unpopulated land is often farmland. You like food, right?

Because we won't be able to import food from Scotland at all.

Depends how much it costs, I guess.

Need to bear in mind that much of this sparsely populated landmass is not prime arable land capable of producing big crop yields or whatever.

There's a reason why these areas are sparsely populated in the first place.

Cavey · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:41

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

Most interesting, all the stats relating to its contribution and economic power show it punching at below its proportional rate at 8% of population. And presumably this includes oil? Eeeash.

Do we believe this though?
The Nats are most vehement that this isn't the case.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Cavey wrote:

The Nats are most vehement that this isn't the case.

I live here but I don't have any misplaced chest-thumping nationalism that makes me think everything about Scotland is not only good, but the BEST.

Frankly, if anything, I'd think the figures were too generous. Scotland is not the secret economic powerhouse some would like to think it is. If businesses move after independence, any skilled Scot won't hang around in a shitty job for patriotism alone. It certainly hasn't stopped the 600,000 that already live in England, probably for the very reason that there are more and better jobs available.

Particularly in Edinburgh, you'll find a lot of the talent isn't coming from home-grown Scots either - there are an awful lot of us filthy English here here. This just means those people will be even less incentivised to hang around when the better jobs start moving south.

At this point I can't wait for this shit to be over. The observable extent of fanatic self-delusion that the Nats have brought to the fore is quite depressing. So many chip-on-shoulder small-minded little twats, giving voice to their anglophobia under the guise of a desire for independence. When the no vote comes in they'll be like the fans on the losing side of a football team - wondering what to do with their lives without appreciating that they should have been doing something worthwhile for themselves the whole time, instead of hoping for someone else to do it for them.

Kern · **Posted:** Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:39

There's a TV debate between Salmond and Darling on Tuesday at 8. As far as I can tell, it's only on STV so viewers elsewhere will have to either rely on the Internet or fiddle with their satellite boxes to add that ITV region.

I'm trying to devise a drinking game.

Cavey · **Posted:** Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:34

Very interesting, levelheaded and well-argued blog piece re. the whole iScotland/currency union issue:

http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/0 ... metry.html

Kern · **Posted:** Wed Jul 30, 2014 17:04

Thanks for that. I hadn't considered the exporter of oil/gas issue in relation to how it might affect the Scottish economy before and the currency implications thereof.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6514

That was an interesting read. One thing that stood out is that 20% is a heck of a large amount of GDP to be based on Oil and Gas - price fluctuations are gonna play some havoc with the economy. It's also worth noting that there are very few countries you'd actually want to live in that are that dependent on oil. There's no correlation between "having lots of petro-dollars" and "being a non-basket case of a country".

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6514

That was an interesting read. One thing that stood out is that 20% is a heck of a large amount of GDP to be based on Oil and Gas - price fluctuations are gonna play some havoc with the economy. It's also worth noting that there are very few countries you'd actually want to live in that are that dependent on oil. There's no correlation between "having lots of petro-dollars" and "being a non-basket case of a country".

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6514

That was an interesting read. One thing that stood out is that 20% is a heck of a large amount of GDP to be based on Oil and Gas - price fluctuations are gonna play some havoc with the economy. It's also worth noting that there are very few countries you'd actually want to live in that are that dependent on oil. There's no correlation between "having lots of petro-dollars" and "being a non-basket case of a country".

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38463

That was an interesting read...

Kern · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:36

I watched the debate last night.

Salmond's weakness was to try to play the audience by wasting his allotted time making too many jokes or attacking the Tories, rather than trying to discuss the important issues. Not as fun, certainly, but would have been more effective for making the case of 'yes'.

Cavey · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:54

Consensus appears to be Salmond got absolutely rinsed, especially on all the important stuff such as currency, the economy, lack of currency union, pensions etc.?
I didn't see the debate, mind, but if so I'm hardly surprised.

Kern · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:56

It's being repeated on BBC Parliament tonight (at risk of 'being' Chinny, shame on ITV for not carrying it live last night across the network).

Salmond just couldn't answer the questions when challenged. I'd never heard Darling debate before: he came across as for more confident, far more in control of issues rather than personalities, and once he got going after a stuttering start really showed how weak the Yes case is.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

I do think Darling comes across far too prickly and defensive, but the core of his points was strong. Salmond seemed more obsessed with trying to quote Darling out of context to try to make his argument for him, but that had virtually no impact at all.

One thing that made me chuckle was the dim tactic of Salmond stepping out from behind the podium when responding to an audience question. Someone has obviously told him to do that because it 'helps personalise yourself to the audience', thereby making him seem more approachable. Dreary.

Even the demagogic twat at Whinge has nothing positive to say about it, except that one poll thinks Salmond won it. Strange how only the polls that favour the Yes position are to be relied upon

Really can't wait for this shit to be over now. All of the information we're going to get about it is in, and the next 6 weeks will be increasingly shrill paraphrased repetition in the attempt to sway the undecideds.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:52

This has probably been covered a thousand times before, but do you get a vote, Gnomes?

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Yep. Eligibility as follows:

* a British citizen living in Scotland

* a European Union citizen living in Scotland, or

* a qualifying Commonwealth citizen living in Scotland

So even Canadians here temporarily can vote, for example. I had originally heard that you had to have lived here for a year, but I don't seem to see that in any voting requirements.

Edit: Actually the only limit seems to be the deadline to register to vote, which is 2nd September. So if you've got a valid address here by then, you're in.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38463

Do PO Boxes count?

Slightly Green · **Joined:** 26th Aug, 2010 **Posts:** 2069

Stu is in the Mail again after last nights debate,

Quote:

Wings is in fact ‘Reverend’ Stuart Campbell, 46, a former video games journalist from Denny, Stirlingshire, who has built up a following of around 7,000 subscribers on the micro-blogging site after nearly 50,000 tweets.

‘Followers’ is an apposite term, as Wings has grown into something of a cult – so much so that many of them willingly donate cash to the blog to fund ventures such as opinion polls – and some of Campbell’s ‘wages’.

But nothing is quite as it seems with the ‘Reverend’ (a claim no one has yet verified; last night, the Church of Scotland told the Mail it had no record of Campbell as a Kirk minister).
Campbell lives in Bath, Somerset (with his pet rats), which means he cannot even vote in the independence referendum.

Mail having a pop at the Cybernats, does make them look like bastards mind.

Am 30 mins into the debate (have it on in the background, Salmond seems to be trying to be very pally with the audience.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38463

That reads like the author knows Stu personally. Perhaps an old games journo?

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:26

It does, and none of it matters to the validity of his writing one bit.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:27

The rats have been mentioned before in the mail, as has where he lives. A ahrsher man would suggest it was all included to color one's opinion of the man when one reads it.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

MaliA wrote:

The rats have been mentioned before in the mail, as has where he lives. A ahrsher man would suggest it was all included to color one's opinion of the man when one reads it.

Errr I think the 'before' is the self-same time, as the article linked is from January.

Slightly Green · **Joined:** 26th Aug, 2010 **Posts:** 2069

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

MaliA wrote:

The rats have been mentioned before in the mail, as has where he lives. A ahrsher man would suggest it was all included to color one's opinion of the man when one reads it.

Errr I think the 'before' is the self-same time, as the article linked is from January.

yeh sorry, that was my bad, was googling cybenats and that poped up, checked the date in the top right not the one on the tag line...doh

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:00

Looks like the SNP knives are out for Salmond?

Quote:

Observers were astonished when he used a large part of precious TV time to ask Darling about claims that Scots would have to drive on the right-hand side of the road if there was a Yes vote.

He also asked about bizarre claims Scotland would be more vulnerable to attacks from outer space.

The source said: “Those questions ate up an awful lot of time and were a wasted opportunity.

“People make mistakes but he didn’t do as well as he should have done. It didn’t go well.”

Other sources, including MSPs, were also critical of Salmond’s performance.

One said: “It was a bad night.”

Another added: “It was what it was. Now we have to pick ourselves up and prepare for the next one.”

Asked if the debate was “a bit of a disaster”, one MSP echoed a famous quote from 90s TV show House of Cards. “You may say that,” the source said. “I couldn’t possibly comment.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... fe-4015023

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:12

Quote:

Observers were astonished when he used a large part of precious TV time to ask Darling about claims that Scots would have to drive on the right-hand side of the road if there was a Yes vote.

He also asked about bizarre claims Scotland would be more vulnerable to attacks from outer space.

That was a proper face palm moment, and really made Salmond look pathetic, as well as wasting time.

Of course, if I were the grand vizier of a free Scotland, I'd switch to right hand driving just for the hell of it.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:16

Whilst I think of it, what did our 'Yes' people make of it?

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:27

Kern wrote:

Whilst I think of it, what did our 'Yes' people make of it?

It was a glorious victory! Salmond won in a landslide! Darling lies with every word and was shown up as the reptilian shapeshifter he surely is!

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:29

Curiosity wrote:

Kern wrote:

Whilst I think of it, what did our 'Yes' people make of it?

It was a glorious victory! Salmond won in a landslide! Darling lies with every word and was shown up as the reptilian shapeshifter he surely is!

The fact that Stu wasn't crowing from the rafters about Teh Great Salmond Victory!!11 told me all I needed to know, without even having to bother watching the debate.

romanista · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:35

Since when is house of cards from the 90s
http://transport-era.net/results/virtue ... onference/

according to revstu, the debastew didnt go that bad.. independents liked salmond... dutch press only picked up "the independence movement seems to have lost its momentum , scotts are evaluating their economic gains now"

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:37

romanista wrote:

Since when is house of cards from the 90s

The US version is a remake of a British series from 1990 that was shown, by chance, at the same time as the defenestration of Mrs Thatcher.

Francis Urquhart is charmingly evil.

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:16

More interesting post-debate synopsis in The Telegraph:

Quote:

Normally, Salmond’s Seventies stand-up schtick works well on TV, but not tonight. The lights were unflattering (looked like a walrus of advancing years) and when he walked out from behind the podium to talk direct to the audience "Obama-style", the mic didn’t follow behind – leaving him mouthing silent words for thirty seconds. But he also met his match in Alistair Darling.

Hitherto, Darling has carried an image of worthy but dull – but it’ll be all change after tonight. He was angry, clever, funny and (this was the best bit) KNEW SOME STUFF ABOUT ECONOMICS.

Salmond walked into every trap on the NHS, currency unions and pensions. And when Darling asked him directly what he’d do about the black hole in Scotland’s finances, Salmond gave an answer that should terrify everyone: end austerity to reduce the deficit. Mr Salmond apparently wants to turn Scotland into the European equivalent of Cuba. Minus the nice weather.

The debate probably won’t dramatically change the polls, but it might solidify the pro-Union vote and make a few undecideds quietly edge towards saying "no". Not only because Salmond proved so poor under scrutiny but also because the audience gave an unfavourable impression of the nationalist crowd. One young girl said that she felt too much money was going on pensions and not enough on promotion of Gaelic. Another asked Darling if he lived in Scotland because, after all, he didn’t vote for the SNP. Make no mistake – there is a nasty side to nationalism that simply is not found in unionism. Tribal, small minded.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timst ... our-party/

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 13:00

That's some balanced reporting right there

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 13:05

Grim... wrote:

That's some balanced reporting right there

I think there's plenty of nastiness to go round for both sides!

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Grim... wrote:

That's some balanced reporting right there

It's not reporting though, it's a blog opinion piece. There's writing for the (allegedly) impartial official story, and there's ranting about what you really think.

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 13:14

edit: @ Grim...

:shrug:

Possibly, but personally I'll take what reasonably august sources like The Telegraph have to say in the matter over and above some shouty/ranty twitter feed and/or absurdly partisan one-man blog.

Anyway, I'm only quoting it for interest; not saying I agree with every word. As stated, I haven't even seen the debate. Quoting something in this context is not necessarily endorsement?

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Just clarifying the distinction between 'balanced reporting' when it's not an official story. You wouldn't expected a blog post to be balanced, is what I'm saying.

I'd take the opinion of a rusty shit-encrusted spoon over a frothing cybernat, anyway

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 13:23

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

Just clarifying the distinction between 'balanced reporting' when it's not an official story. You wouldn't expected a blog post to be balanced, is what I'm saying.

I'd take the opinion of a rusty shit-encrusted spoon over a frothing cybernat, anyway

Oh sure, agreed.

(On both counts

)

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 14:46

Apparently, the punters/betting public have spoken as regards Salmond's performance and perceived chances of a Yes victory:

Quote:

The time for recovery is getting shorter

The betting on the Scottish IndyRef has moved further to NO during the day even though, as yet, we have yet to see the first full post debate referendum poll.

The latest price traded on Betfair as I write, (1420) was at the 7.4 level which converts to a 13.5% chance. In hour before Tuesday night’s event it was in the 20-24% – so the latest betting reflects a significant fall.

YES has been lower than this on Betfair but only £36 has been matched a prices that reflect longer odds. That’s absolute chickenfeed in a market that’s already seen a total of £1.316m matched.

The problem was, of course, was that Tuesday night had been billed beforehand by many in the YES camp as the moment when the tide would turn. Salmond was going to come out of this triumphant and his accusations that NO’s case was based on “scaremongering” would hit home.

Yet that didn’t happen and Salmond’s personal attacks on Darling went down badly.

But this can change. In the next debate Salmond, surely, will have learned some lessons and a victory for the SNP leader could be on the cards.

http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index. ... ys-debate/

Be Excellent To Each Other

The end of the UK?
We'll take a cup o' kindness

Who is online

Be Excellent To Each Other

The end of the UK? We'll take a cup o' kindness

Who is online

The end of the UK?
We'll take a cup o' kindness