Be Excellent To Each Other

The same FPTP picture as before, but shaded by percentages. (plus other analysis)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29255449

I'm quite disappointed you've posted that chap. I've met many a lovely norn iron folk, and while there's much difficult history, more recent than any gripe Scotland thinks it has I'm happy to have them in the gang if they want to be included.

I wasn't being entirely serious, gnomes.

However, there is a valid question to be asked from all corners of the union as to why it exists, and what's in it for the various bits. On a purely monetary level, I'm not sure the average englisher would, if asked, vote to keep NI, Wales and Scotland in the union.

To Cookie, I'd ask you to stay your worry and see what comes of the next 6 months. I think it would be foolish on the extreme to further alienate the nationalist element of Scotland by failing to come through with the greater devolved powers as promised. As someone who has always supported greater devolution, it would piss me off as much as anyone if we got fobbed off, and I wouldn't forgive that lightly.

My hope is that, as much as I hate to say it, this will be the best of both. Max devolved powers, control over income and spending while benefitting from what the UK offers.

If this doesn't happen for any reason, the betrayal will persist until a referendum happens again, and the result a second time won't even be close.

What powers have they said we are actually going to have? All I've heard about is tax, tax and tax.

That said – in all honesty I can’t really see why NI is still part of the Union, because of how we came to own it in the first place. We only had it in the first place because we nicked Ireland, and then only gave back some of it, keeping the bit that the Proddies lived in because they were scared of the pope and it was politically inexpedient at the time to go against them, and have kept hold of it since because a sizeable minority can’t behave like grown ups and stop shooting each other without being made to.

Wales I can understand, because it’s never actually been a country; rather it's just the bit of the kingdom the heir to the throne gets to practise on.*

I’m half Irish, by the way, and have very little sense of English (or any other) national identity, considering the Treaty of Westphalia to be something of a step backwards in human social evolution.


On the devolution point - I still think the Tories are going to massively screw Scotland over, by making it conditional on carving Labour Scottish MPs out of votes on "English" issues (like key things such as the NHS, for example), making any future Labour government hamstrung from the outset.

*Nationalism note to Gaywood - not being entirely serious here.

The ability to raise your own money through taxation, rather than rely on a grant, is generally considered to be better and a sign of more independence and discretion than being solely dependent on a central government grant that could be removed or reduced on a whim. Of course, it also means you have to think carefully about the rate you set it, and whether you have the taxbase to pay it. But it's your money, not Westminster's.

Taxes, how the NHS is Scotland is run and also the continuation of the Barnett allocation.

The usual politician pledge no dates, key points interlinked to each other and all 3 leaders having different details on things like taxes.

Hate to say this but don't hold your breath as they are all lying slippery tossers,

Who were only there in the first place because the English put them there. And they were Scots

I never thought I would live to see the day when the Barnett formula was part of everyday conversation.

I know! We're such meddling tits.

All fine until you have to raise taxes and don't have a grant to fall back on, then your voters hate you as everyone hates taxes

" "May you live in interesting times" - Ancient Proverb" - DavPaz

All of Salmond's Scottish money trees have died because of the English.

Hair raising stuff for sure, it was always on the fringe before this, now it's coming to a head.

Here wig-o again

The Tories are taking a little off the top.

Cuts. Typical.

Its nothing to be Afro-ed of.

I'm still pissed off that I pay more tax than the scottish or something. I've got bills toupee!

"Lord, grant that Marshal Wade, May by thy mighty aid, Victory bring. May he sedition hush, and like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush, God save The King."

If there had been a yes vote, we could have brought that verse back!

Just throwing this out there... I wonder what the odds are on Gordon Brown being the next prime minister...

Salmond stepping down in November.

When Boris Johnson makes a Barnett/Barnet pun, it is truly the endtimes.

His speech was rather good, I have to say. He also looked very much like the wind had been knocked out of him. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

Fuck me that news made me happy. Never having to hear that smug, smarmy cunt's voice ever again is the best thing to come out of the whole thing.

But, you know, bless. Poor chap. At least now he can spend more time on his folk music.

It's sad to see what might have begun kicking off in George Sq, Glasgow this evening, so hopefully the crowds calm quickly or can be contained to avid any rioting/injury/arrest. Though, looking at the pictures a couple of people are flooding Twitter with, all the people gathered appear to be from the same side and there are no people present or causing trouble on the other, so there should be no scuffling at least.

And people were saying that if Yes won, they would be intolerable.
Shows you there are people just as bad on either side.
I mean, really? BURNING the saltire? What do you hope to gain from that, apart from alienating yourself from the other 5 million people in Scotland.

Of course, if it had been the Yes people burning a flag, the likes of Swinny would be saying it was just light hearted bantz. And that it was faked by the No campaign.

The West Lothian question being answered is interesting, if it was planned from the start that we would end up in this situation, then the conservative leadership have turned out to be tactical geniuses. It couldn't have gone any better for them if they tried...

Anyone that says that is, once again, an idiot.

Totes disagree. They will just end up kiboshing devolution and not resolving the West Lothian quesiton, and making themselves look like untrustworthy khunts in the meantime. I mean, moreso.

I read earlier that yes voters were burning a union flag in the square first, which kicked off some trouble. Not sure how reliable that is though, we all know what twitter is like!

"Megaheh"

(C) Kissyfur 2008. All rights reserved.

My point was that either side would be saying the same about the behaviour of the other, whoever won, and the misbehaving side would be explaining it away in the same tediously mealy mouthed partisan way.

Basic point being, don't kid on that there wouldn't have been exactly the same story about the unreconstructed elements of the yessers if they'd won.

Dog bites man, basically.

But the conservatives want to answer the question, they want to stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues, why would they not take this opportunity?

Because they can't - they cant pass it without the Lib Dems and Labour agreeing. Why would Labour agree to hobble every future Labour government on key issues like the NHS?

They'll attempt to blame it on Millibean, of course, but no one's going to be fooled.

These people represent Scottish unionists in the same way the IRA represents the Irish, or the EDL represents the English.

It was Scottish votes that stopped the UK bombing Syria last year. Scottish MP's should not have a vote on British matters, but would be welcome to vote where the whole UK is involved, anything else would be total bollocks.

Otherwise how else are we a Union?

I wouldn't be so sure, as the results of the referendum show, it's possible to fool a lot of people...

Labour could well be stuck between a rock and a hard place in this, if the conservatives can gain enough populist support for "English votes for English issues". They block it, they don't get the votes to get into power, they allow it they lose the influence in Westminster...

I don't think you meant to type British there did you?

That's the whole flipping point, man. They will be able to vote on "UK" matters, but won't be able to vote on "English" matters, which includes stuff like the NHS (given that, among other things, NHS control in Scotland is devolved), which means a Labour government with a majority in the HoC won't actually be able to pass legislation on major vote winning stuff like the NHS or University tuition in England. So they won't agree to it.

I did point out the whole 'other 5 million' to try show it was a minority of people.

V

Yes, there's a tiny idiot minority on both sides. That tiny idiot minority is making an arse if themselves on both sides with the mentality that they enjoy spoiling for a fight and the associated adrenaline and this is their latest excuse to exercise that feeling. It'd be football or some other excuse at another time. They're adrenaline junkies with no skill for sport or activity. Idiots all.

D'oh! Something a bit more lighthearted, I hope!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-fr ... e-29278589

Saw this today:
Results of 1991 referendum to preserve the Soviet Union


So expect Hadrian's Wall to fall down in a few months with The Hoff dancing atop of it.

If you want a new source of amusement, google 'We are the 45%' and see how well the sour grape merchants are taking things. There's even a bloody twibbon for it.