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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 13:47 
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myp it wrote:
I can tell you know nothing about sine waves.

Apparently they are bipolar, which is a shame for them.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 13:49 
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markg wrote:
myp it wrote:
I can tell you know nothing about sine waves.

Apparently they are bipolar, which is a shame for them.

Sometimes it's great.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:12 
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I think I'm a bit of a convert to iOS gaming now. I always found it too fiddly on my iPod touch and it just ended up giving me a bit of a headache. Galaxy On Fire 2 HD is ace despite the awful voice acting and the fact that your character is called Keith.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 13:04 
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markg wrote:
Galaxy On Fire 2 HD is ace

£7 :S

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 13:10 
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I know, but I really wanted that sort of game and it seemed like the best one. But yeah no doubt it will be 99p next week.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:17 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... pe=article

I'm hoping that will stop them playing silly buggers with patents, but I know it won't.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:10 
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Grim... wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jul/19/apple-ordered-advertisements-samsung-did-not-copy-ipad?cat=technology&type=article

I'm hoping that will stop them playing silly buggers with patents, but I know it won't.


Lol, that's excellent. As you say it totally won't make any difference but it's still nice to see a judge at least try and demonstrate how ridiculous it's all become.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:24 
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I think they're all as bad as each other with regards to patent wars, aren't they?

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:26 
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Ooh, that looks nice. Got a link to a big version?

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:27 
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Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jul/19/apple-ordered-advertisements-samsung-did-not-copy-ipad?cat=technology&type=article

I'm hoping that will stop them playing silly buggers with patents, but I know it won't.


Lol, that's excellent. As you say it totally won't make any difference but it's still nice to see a judge at least try and demonstrate how ridiculous it's all become.


"It said the order came from Judge Colin Birss in a ruling on 18 July following his 9 July ruling in which he said that Samsung did not infringe Apple's patents because the American company's device was "cool" but Samsung's "are not as cool"

:D I'm not sure I want my judicial rulings to be based on how "cool" something is!


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:31 
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Grim... wrote:
Ooh, that looks nice. Got a link to a big version?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Tec ... 110-lg.png

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:33 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Ooh, that looks nice. Got a link to a big version?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Tec ... 110-lg.png


How old is that pic, according to that Apple haven't sued Samsung.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:39 
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2010/11/12 is in the URL.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:40 
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Grim... wrote:
2010/11/12 is in the URL.


Good spot Grimothy.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:44 
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I didn't say it was recent, just that they're all as bad as each other. :)

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:48 
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I'm against the patents mess, but this judgment seems wrong. Unless I'm mistaken, Samsung sued Apple in the UK, and the result of "iPads are too cool to be mistaken" is just utter bullshit. (Anyone who thinks Samsung doesn't just clone everything Apple does is deluded, frankly.) Even if that were the case, a cash settlement would be an obvious result, but forcing another company to advertise its rival's products is just insane.

Clearly, this is a major cultural divide. In the USA, you can patent practically anything, because the USPTO is seemingly staffed by people with no research capability, common sense or short-term memory. But Samsung's from a place where IP laws barely exist. There needs to be some kind of sensible medium, where major companies and patent trolls aren't smacking each other, but also where a company can happily make money off of its inventions without being the R&D department for every other company out there.

*grumpyface*


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:49 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
I didn't say it was recent, just that they're all as bad as each other. :)


I didn't say you did say it was recent :P I was just wondering how correct it was and if the missing links were due to age ;)


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:07 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
I'm against the patents mess, but this judgment seems wrong. Unless I'm mistaken, Samsung sued Apple in the UK, and the result of "iPads are too cool to be mistaken" is just utter bullshit.


That's a fantastic misquote. His Honour Judge Birrs QC actually said:

para189 wrote:
This case illustrates the importance of properly taking into account the informed user's knowledge and experience of the design corpus. When I first saw the Samsung products in this case I was struck by how similar they look to the Apple design when they are resting on a table. They look similar because they both have the same front screen. It stands out. However to the informed user (which at that stage I was not) these screens do not stand out to anything like the same extent. The front view of the Apple design takes its place amongst its kindred prior art. There is a clear family resemblance between the front of the Apple design and other members of that family (Flatron, Bloomberg 1 and 2, Ozolins, Showbox, Wacom). They are not identical to each other but they form a family. There are differences all over these products but the biggest differences between these various family members are at the back and sides. The user who is particularly observant and is informed about the design corpus reacts to the Apple design by recognising the front view as one of a familiar type. From the front both the Apple design and the Samsung tablets look like members of the same, pre-existing family. As a result, the significance of that similarity overall is much reduced and the informed user's attention to the differences at the back and sides will be enhanced considerably.



para 190 wrote:
The informed user's overall impression of each of the Samsung Galaxy Tablets is the following. From the front they belong to the family which includes the Apple design; but the Samsung products are very thin, almost insubstantial members of that family with unusual details on the back. They do not have the same understated and extreme simplicity which is possessed by the Apple design. They are not as cool. The overall impression produced is different.


The informed user would consider the samsung tablets to be not as cool. Not Honour Judge Birrs QC.

An "informed user" in this aspect of law is:

para 34 wrote:
i) He (or she) is a user of the product in which the design is intended to be incorporated, not a designer, technical expert, manufacturer or seller (PepsiCo paragraph 54 referring to Grupo Promer paragraph 62; Shenzen paragraph 46).

ii) However, unlike the average consumer of trade mark law, he is particularly observant (PepsiCo paragraph 53);

iii) He has knowledge of the design corpus and of the design features normally included in the designs existing in the sector concerned (PepsiCo paragraph 59 and also paragraph 54 referring to Grupo Promer paragraph 62);

iv) He is interested in the products concerned and shows a relatively high degree of attention when he uses them (PepsiCo paragraph 59);

v) He conducts a direct comparison of the designs in issue unless there are specific circumstances or the devices have certain characteristics which make it impractical or uncommon to do so (PepsiCo paragraph 55).



The paragraphs inbetween are really incredibly dull, and compare the two machines. but there is pciture of a rather natty touch screen alarm clock.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:12 
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They're both tablets, and they look and act like tablets.

Quelle surprise.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:16 
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Grim... wrote:
They're both tablets, and they look and act like tablets.

Quelle surprise.


The judgement points out that in Star Trek in 1966, tablets looked like tablets. That was the high point of my reading it all. For you. I'm good like that.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:18 
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Grim... wrote:
They're both tablets, and they look and act like tablets.
Quelle surprise.

Wheels out

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:20 
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Para 70 wrote:
Mr Sherman explained that the idea of tablet computers has existed for a long time, and pointed out they had been imagined in science fiction, referring to Star Trek (from 1966 onwards) and 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968). Item 2 in Schedule A is a display device from 2001: A Space Odyssey. Mr Sherman's view was that optimal design principles for tablet computers had been commonly understood for a long time and by 2004 it was understood that any tablet computer should offer unfettered views of electronic media by means of a large display screen and that the screen would be the main element in the design of any tablet. I accept that evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:25 
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I find that hard to swallow.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:26 
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Zardoz wrote:
I find that hard to swallow.


I've linked to the whole judgement, it's rather meticulous in the comparisons and stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:27 
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@MaliA: Samsung also ripped the interface, the packaging, and even, in some cases, the chargers—it's so brazen. Those weren't on bloody Star Trek. I find this whole thing insane. As I said, the patents system is shit and Apple and others are exploiting it, but Apple also shouldn't be the R&D department for almost the entire computing industry. At least Microsoft's trying something different with some aspects of its Surface.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:28 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
Grim... wrote:
They're both tablets, and they look and act like tablets.
Quelle surprise.

Wheels out

Image

Selective memory is selective:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:29 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
Grim... wrote:
They're both tablets, and they look and act like tablets.
Quelle surprise.

Wheels out


Quite - and PCs came in loads of different shapes and sizes until the market realised which ones were popular, and then they were identikit copies of each other for 15 years. That's the way it's always worked.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:34 
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HOLY FUCK! I HAVE JUST REALISED THAT MY OLD CRT MONITORS ALL LOOKED SIMILAR & WHEN I BOUGHT LCD ONES THEY ALL LOOKED SIMILAR TOO. I AM SHOCKED & APPALLED THAT NO-ONE MADE ONE THAT WAS SHAPED LIKE A FUCKING TETRIS PIECE!

Edit: Aye, what Craster said.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:35 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Selective memory is selective:

*awaits selection of pre-iPad tablets that look like iPads/pre-iPhone phones that look like phones*

Anyway, the point with Samsung isn't so much that it borrowed bits of Apple's design, but that it's attempted to clone things wholesale. If that's really how we think large businesses should run, then bleh.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:36 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
Wheels out


I wonder if the iPad's design was known about before this appeared.

That aside, your graphic there tries desperately to align general tablet design purely with the design of the iPad; when in reality it was actually driven by the mobile OS' in question and existing devices running those OSs. By the time the iPad came along all the various modern mobile OS' had an almost entirely touch driven interface so any device running one of those OS' would obviously be differentiated from the earlier tablet PCs in your graphic by it's lack of the various external knobs and wheels and buttons that a tablet PC running non-touch driven Windows XP would likely have needed. If you want to argue that the iPhone kick-started decent mobile OS design then you've got a case, but when it comes to modern tablets running those OSs the designs are simply an evolution of the existing phone form-factor devices rather than a case of the iPad itself being some kind of standard setter.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:39 
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Wullie wrote:
HOLY FUCK! I HAVE JUST REALISED THAT MY OLD CRT MONITORS ALL LOOKED SIMILAR & WHEN I BOUGHT LCD ONES THEY ALL LOOKED SIMILAR TOO.

Similar ≠ the same. I've had several of both, and they were all very distinct. Also, the packaging wasn't exactly the bloody same. Also, the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same. And so on.

@Bamba: For the record, that's not *my* graphic. It's been around the web for ages now. As for the iPhone…

Image


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:39 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
@MaliA: Samsung also ripped the interface, the packaging, and even, in some cases, the chargers—it's so brazen.



Paras16 and 17 wrote:
Apple submitted that the similarities between the design and the Samsung tablets could be divided into the following seven features:

i) A rectangular, biaxially symmetrical slab with four evenly, slightly rounded corners;

ii) A flat transparent surface without any ornamentation covering the entire front face of the device up to the rim;

iii) A very thin rim of constant width, surrounding and flush with the front transparent surface;

iv) A rectangular display screen surrounded by a plain border of generally constant width centred beneath the transparent surface;

v) A substantially flat rear surface which curves upwards at the sides and comes to meet the front surface at a crisp outer edge;

vi) A thin profile, the impression of which is emphasised by (v) above;

vii) Overall, a design of extreme simplicity without features which specify orientation.

Samsung pointed to differences between the lists of features relied on by Apple in the various parallel proceedings. I did not find analysing these differences to be a profitable exercise.


Those are what was being argued about. Anything else doesn't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:40 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Selective memory is selective:

*awaits selection of pre-iPad tablets that look like iPads/pre-iPhone phones that look like phones*
.
Three not enough for some reason? Want some more? http://i.imgur.com/NbDRW.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:40 
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In your picture on the left, only one of those devices is a full-screen smartphone. And it looks exactly like all the ones on the right.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:41 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Three not enough for some reason?


Picture didn't appear.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:42 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
... the packaging wasn't exactly the bloody same. Also, the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same...
I dunno, monitors have always came in boxes & used kettle leads. Sounds pretty fucking samey to me.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:43 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Selective memory is selective:

*awaits selection of pre-iPad tablets that look like iPads/pre-iPhone phones that look like phones*

Anyway, the point with Samsung isn't so much that it borrowed bits of Apple's design, but that it's attempted to clone things wholesale. If that's really how we think large businesses should run, then bleh.


No, it hasn't. Read para's 183-190. Summing up the preceding 182 paragraphs.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:45 
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Craster wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Three not enough for some reason?


Picture didn't appear.
Works for me. Site must forbid deep linking. Here:
http://www.2imgs.com/6c941c36e5


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:45 
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Before the iPad I had chunky coloured shoulders and ankles. Since its release by back has turned smooth and silvery and I find it hard not to stop gesturing on my tummy.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:46 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Three not enough for some reason?

Your earlier image isn't showing in my browser, for some reason. What's the 2003 one?


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:46 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
CraigGrannell wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Selective memory is selective:

*awaits selection of pre-iPad tablets that look like iPads/pre-iPhone phones that look like phones*
.
Three not enough for some reason? Want some more? http://i.imgur.com/NbDRW.jpg

I can't see an image in your post, and I doubt Craig can either.

CraigGrannell wrote:
Wullie wrote:
HOLY FUCK! I HAVE JUST REALISED THAT MY OLD CRT MONITORS ALL LOOKED SIMILAR & WHEN I BOUGHT LCD ONES THEY ALL LOOKED SIMILAR TOO.

Similar ≠ the same. [...] the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same.

Image
;)

But anyway, the SGT isn't that much like an iPad.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:47 
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Wullie wrote:
CraigGrannell wrote:
... the packaging wasn't exactly the bloody same. Also, the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same...
I dunno, monitors have always came in boxes & used kettle leads. Sounds pretty fucking samey to me.

This list sums up the kind of thing I'm talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:51 
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I think Samsung have copied Apple a bit (although I think there's a big element of inevitability about the iPad "design") but I also think that this sort of thing should be allowed to an extent in order to allow other firms to make competing products that are obviously the right design for the purpose. Imagine if the original car firms were as big a bunch of cunty little sue-crazy fucknuts as Apple et al. We'd all have to just drive Fords or else buy cars with six wheels and no windows or something.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:53 
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While I don't believe Apple invented the smart phone or tablet, they were the first company to bring them into the mainstream. Other manufacturers have very much ridden on their coat tails.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:58 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
@Bamba: For the record, that's not *my* graphic. It's been around the web for ages now.


I'm calling it your graphic because you posted it, not because I think you made it.

CraigGrannell wrote:
As for the iPhone…

Image


The same argument can be made here though as I made earlier: the touch screen interface necessitates (a) an increase in the ratio of screen-size to overall-size-of-device and (b) removal of almost all the physical buttons because they no longer serve any purpose so of course smart phone designs are going to move closer to each other. Old dumb phones and new smart phones look massively different because the UI necessitates it, not because everyone's trying to copy the iPhone.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:00 
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Except for this:

Image

and countless other old smart phones, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:07 
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Aren't there a few cases where Samsung have blatantly copied icon designs from Apple? Not just recreating the general idea behind the icon, but literally pixel-copying?

I seem to remember there being a sticky-note style icon that had identical text on it in both the Apple and Samsung versions.


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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:07 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Except for this:

Image

and countless other old smart phones, of course.

I had one of them, and I loved it. Handwriting recognition!

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:09 
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Grim... wrote:
I had one of them, and I loved it. Handwriting recognition!

Yeah, a colleague at work had one. It was excellent for the time, but nothing like an iPhone!

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 Post subject: Re: iPad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:10 
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Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
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CraigGrannell wrote:
Wullie wrote:
CraigGrannell wrote:
... the packaging wasn't exactly the bloody same. Also, the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same...
I dunno, monitors have always came in boxes & used kettle leads. Sounds pretty fucking samey to me.
This list sums up the kind of thing I'm talking about.
The words that go along with that list save me responding :shrug:

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