iPad

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Grim... wrote:

They're both tablets, and they look and act like tablets.
Quelle surprise.

Wheels out

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:20

Para 70 wrote:

Mr Sherman explained that the idea of tablet computers has existed for a long time, and pointed out they had been imagined in science fiction, referring to Star Trek (from 1966 onwards) and 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968). Item 2 in Schedule A is a display device from 2001: A Space Odyssey. Mr Sherman's view was that optimal design principles for tablet computers had been commonly understood for a long time and by 2004 it was understood that any tablet computer should offer unfettered views of electronic media by means of a large display screen and that the screen would be the main element in the design of any tablet. I accept that evidence.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:25

I find that hard to swallow.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:26

Zardoz wrote:

I find that hard to swallow.

I've linked to the whole judgement, it's rather meticulous in the comparisons and stuff.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

@MaliA: Samsung also ripped the interface, the packaging, and even, in some cases, the chargers—it's so brazen. Those weren't on bloody Star Trek. I find this whole thing insane. As I said, the patents system is shit and Apple and others are exploiting it, but Apple also shouldn't be the R&D department for almost the entire computing industry. At least Microsoft's trying something different with some aspects of its Surface.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

CraigGrannell wrote:

Grim... wrote:

They're both tablets, and they look and act like tablets.
Quelle surprise.

Wheels out

Selective memory is selective:

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

CraigGrannell wrote:

Grim... wrote:

They're both tablets, and they look and act like tablets.
Quelle surprise.

Wheels out

Quite - and PCs came in loads of different shapes and sizes until the market realised which ones were popular, and then they were identikit copies of each other for 15 years. That's the way it's always worked.

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

HOLY FUCK! I HAVE JUST REALISED THAT MY OLD CRT MONITORS ALL LOOKED SIMILAR & WHEN I BOUGHT LCD ONES THEY ALL LOOKED SIMILAR TOO. I AM SHOCKED & APPALLED THAT NO-ONE MADE ONE THAT WAS SHAPED LIKE A FUCKING TETRIS PIECE!

Edit: Aye, what Craster said.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Selective memory is selective:

*awaits selection of pre-iPad tablets that look like iPads/pre-iPhone phones that look like phones*

Anyway, the point with Samsung isn't so much that it borrowed bits of Apple's design, but that it's attempted to clone things wholesale. If that's really how we think large businesses should run, then bleh.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

CraigGrannell wrote:

Wheels out

I wonder if the iPad's design was known about before this appeared.

That aside, your graphic there tries desperately to align general tablet design purely with the design of the iPad; when in reality it was actually driven by the mobile OS' in question and existing devices running those OSs. By the time the iPad came along all the various modern mobile OS' had an almost entirely touch driven interface so any device running one of those OS' would obviously be differentiated from the earlier tablet PCs in your graphic by it's lack of the various external knobs and wheels and buttons that a tablet PC running non-touch driven Windows XP would likely have needed. If you want to argue that the iPhone kick-started decent mobile OS design then you've got a case, but when it comes to modern tablets running those OSs the designs are simply an evolution of the existing phone form-factor devices rather than a case of the iPad itself being some kind of standard setter.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Wullie wrote:

HOLY FUCK! I HAVE JUST REALISED THAT MY OLD CRT MONITORS ALL LOOKED SIMILAR & WHEN I BOUGHT LCD ONES THEY ALL LOOKED SIMILAR TOO.

Similar ≠ the same. I've had several of both, and they were all very distinct. Also, the packaging wasn't exactly the bloody same. Also, the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same. And so on.

@Bamba: For the record, that's not *my* graphic. It's been around the web for ages now. As for the iPhone…

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:39

CraigGrannell wrote:

@MaliA: Samsung also ripped the interface, the packaging, and even, in some cases, the chargers—it's so brazen.

Paras16 and 17 wrote:

Apple submitted that the similarities between the design and the Samsung tablets could be divided into the following seven features:

i) A rectangular, biaxially symmetrical slab with four evenly, slightly rounded corners;

ii) A flat transparent surface without any ornamentation covering the entire front face of the device up to the rim;

iii) A very thin rim of constant width, surrounding and flush with the front transparent surface;

iv) A rectangular display screen surrounded by a plain border of generally constant width centred beneath the transparent surface;

v) A substantially flat rear surface which curves upwards at the sides and comes to meet the front surface at a crisp outer edge;

vi) A thin profile, the impression of which is emphasised by (v) above;

vii) Overall, a design of extreme simplicity without features which specify orientation.

Samsung pointed to differences between the lists of features relied on by Apple in the various parallel proceedings. I did not find analysing these differences to be a profitable exercise.

Those are what was being argued about. Anything else doesn't matter.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

CraigGrannell wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Selective memory is selective:

*awaits selection of pre-iPad tablets that look like iPads/pre-iPhone phones that look like phones*
.

Three not enough for some reason? Want some more? http://i.imgur.com/NbDRW.jpg

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

In your picture on the left, only one of those devices is a full-screen smartphone. And it looks exactly like all the ones on the right.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Three not enough for some reason?

Picture didn't appear.

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

CraigGrannell wrote:

... the packaging wasn't exactly the bloody same. Also, the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same...

I dunno, monitors have always came in boxes & used kettle leads. Sounds pretty fucking samey to me.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:43

CraigGrannell wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Selective memory is selective:

*awaits selection of pre-iPad tablets that look like iPads/pre-iPhone phones that look like phones*

Anyway, the point with Samsung isn't so much that it borrowed bits of Apple's design, but that it's attempted to clone things wholesale. If that's really how we think large businesses should run, then bleh.

No, it hasn't. Read para's 183-190. Summing up the preceding 182 paragraphs.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Craster wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Three not enough for some reason?

Picture didn't appear.

Works for me. Site must forbid deep linking. Here:
http://www.2imgs.com/6c941c36e5

Zardoz · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:45

Before the iPad I had chunky coloured shoulders and ankles. Since its release by back has turned smooth and silvery and I find it hard not to stop gesturing on my tummy.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Three not enough for some reason?

Your earlier image isn't showing in my browser, for some reason. What's the 2003 one?

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:46

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

CraigGrannell wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Selective memory is selective:

*awaits selection of pre-iPad tablets that look like iPads/pre-iPhone phones that look like phones*
.

Three not enough for some reason? Want some more? http://i.imgur.com/NbDRW.jpg

I can't see an image in your post, and I doubt Craig can either.

CraigGrannell wrote:

Wullie wrote:

HOLY FUCK! I HAVE JUST REALISED THAT MY OLD CRT MONITORS ALL LOOKED SIMILAR & WHEN I BOUGHT LCD ONES THEY ALL LOOKED SIMILAR TOO.

Similar ≠ the same. [...] the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same.

But anyway, the SGT isn't that much like an iPad.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Wullie wrote:

CraigGrannell wrote:

... the packaging wasn't exactly the bloody same. Also, the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same...

I dunno, monitors have always came in boxes & used kettle leads. Sounds pretty fucking samey to me.

This list sums up the kind of thing I'm talking about.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16559

I think Samsung have copied Apple a bit (although I think there's a big element of inevitability about the iPad "design") but I also think that this sort of thing should be allowed to an extent in order to allow other firms to make competing products that are obviously the right design for the purpose. Imagine if the original car firms were as big a bunch of cunty little sue-crazy fucknuts as Apple et al. We'd all have to just drive Fords or else buy cars with six wheels and no windows or something.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:53

While I don't believe Apple invented the smart phone or tablet, they were the first company to bring them into the mainstream. Other manufacturers have very much ridden on their coat tails.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

CraigGrannell wrote:

@Bamba: For the record, that's not *my* graphic. It's been around the web for ages now.

I'm calling it your graphic because you posted it, not because I think you made it.

CraigGrannell wrote:

As for the iPhone…

The same argument can be made here though as I made earlier: the touch screen interface necessitates (a) an increase in the ratio of screen-size to overall-size-of-device and (b) removal of almost all the physical buttons because they no longer serve any purpose so of course smart phone designs are going to move closer to each other. Old dumb phones and new smart phones look massively different because the UI necessitates it, not because everyone's trying to copy the iPhone.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:00

Except for this:

and countless other old smart phones, of course.

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:07

Aren't there a few cases where Samsung have blatantly copied icon designs from Apple? Not just recreating the general idea behind the icon, but literally pixel-copying?

I seem to remember there being a sticky-note style icon that had identical text on it in both the Apple and Samsung versions.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:07

The Last Salmon Man wrote:

Except for this:

and countless other old smart phones, of course.

I had one of them, and I loved it. Handwriting recognition!

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:09

Grim... wrote:

I had one of them, and I loved it. Handwriting recognition!

Yeah, a colleague at work had one. It was excellent for the time, but nothing like an iPhone!

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

CraigGrannell wrote:

Wullie wrote:

CraigGrannell wrote:

... the packaging wasn't exactly the bloody same. Also, the chargers weren't exactly the bloody same...

I dunno, monitors have always came in boxes & used kettle leads. Sounds pretty fucking samey to me.

This list sums up the kind of thing I'm talking about.

The words that go along with that list save me responding :shrug:

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

markg wrote:

I think Samsung have copied Apple a bit (although I think there's a big element of inevitability about the iPad "design") but I also think that this sort of thing should be allowed to an extent in order to allow other firms to make competing products that are obviously the right design for the purpose. Imagine if the original car firms were as big a bunch of cunty little sue-crazy fucknuts as Apple et al. We'd all have to just drive Fords or else buy cars with six wheels and no windows or something.

Not quite. I've veered off-topic in this thread (i.e. from the court case), but the point isn't about being inspired, but lifting everything wholesale. Cars have the same basic design, but you don't see everything from the body shape through to the marketing material and interface of a Ford taken from a rival, at least not without a court case following. There's a huge difference between what's going on with the Kindle and Surface to how Samsung's behaving. "No, it's an entire original idea, Mr Judge, sir."

GazChap wrote:

Aren't there a few cases where Samsung have blatantly copied icon designs from Apple? Not just recreating the general idea behind the icon, but literally pixel-copying?

Not quite, no. A few of those are a bit too close for comfort, though, I'd say. The icons on the store were far more bizarre.

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:26

Aah, this is what I was remembering. Not quite copying an iOS icon, but certainly plagiarising Apple icons.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:42

CraigGrannell wrote:

I've veered off-topic in this thread (i.e. from the court case), but the point isn't about being inspired, but lifting everything wholesale.

Which in the instant case, hasn't happened:

1) "The optimal design principles for tablet computers had been commonly understood for a long time",

2) "The front view of the Apple design takes its place amongst its kindred prior art. There is a clear family resemblance between the front of the Apple design and other members of that family (Flatron, Bloomberg 1 and 2, Ozolins, Showbox, Wacom)"

3) "The user who is particularly observant and is informed about the design corpus reacts to the Apple design by recognising the front view as one of a familiar type. From the front both the Apple design and the Samsung tablets look like members of the same, pre-existing family. As a result, the significance of that similarity overall is much reduced and the informed user's attention to the differences at the back and sides will be enhanced considerably."

4) "The overall impression produced is different."

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:51

They really are quite different, like a Ford Mondeo is different from an Audi A6, say.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Lawyered.

throughsilver · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6197

Freaking hell. I was just comparing the Nexus 7 and iPad mini for potential Christmas fun times, and damn. Not only does Apple's site not want me to see the RAM apparently, but it turns out I wouldn't be able to sync it to my MacBook anyway:

Quote:

Syncing with iTunes on a Mac or PC requires:

Mac: OS X v10.6.8 or later

Thanks, bastards! Is Leopard that shit now?

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

It's 5 years old :shrug:

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

throughsilver wrote:

Freaking hell. I was just comparing the Nexus 7 and iPad mini for potential Christmas fun times, and damn. Not only does Apple's site not want me to see the RAM apparently, but it turns out I wouldn't be able to sync it to my MacBook anyway:

Quote:

Syncing with iTunes on a Mac or PC requires:

Mac: OS X v10.6.8 or later

Thanks, bastards! Is Leopard that shit now?

On one hand, Leopard is over five years old now. On the other hand though I'd have thought the syncing is more about the version of iTunes you're running than the OS so it's odd (i.e. shit) to tie the limitation directly to the version of OS X. Well, unless you can't run the current version of iTunes on Leopard or something?

throughsilver · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6197

Craster wrote:

It's 5 years old :shrug:

Indeed it is. I'm not a computer expert, so I don't know what the limitation of 10.5 is that would prevent such a thing. Is it just Apple locking a subset of users out/gently prodding us into upgrading OS?

Bamba wrote:

throughsilver wrote:

Freaking hell. I was just comparing the Nexus 7 and iPad mini for potential Christmas fun times, and damn. Not only does Apple's site not want me to see the RAM apparently, but it turns out I wouldn't be able to sync it to my MacBook anyway:

Quote:

Syncing with iTunes on a Mac or PC requires:

Mac: OS X v10.6.8 or later

Thanks, bastards! Is Leopard that shit now?

On one hand, Leopard is over five years old now. On the other hand though I'd have thought the syncing is more about the version of iTunes you're running than the OS so it's odd (i.e. shit) to tie the limitation directly to the version of OS X. Well, unless you can't run the current version of iTunes on Leopard or something?

Pretty sure I have the latest iTunes.

***

It confuses me, I must admit. If I upgrade to iOS6, will my phone suddenly be too advanced to sync to my OSX, or is it a hardware thing?

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

throughsilver wrote:

Pretty sure I have the latest iTunes.

Are you sure? I only ask because a quick Google about compatibility threw up this very recent discussion thread which claims that you can't run the later versions of iTunes on Leopard and, as iOS6 requires iTunes 10.7, you're screwed unless you upgrade your OS.

Mr Russell · **Joined:** 6th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 12243

Bamba wrote:

throughsilver wrote:

Pretty sure I have the latest iTunes.

Are you sure? I only ask because a quick Google about compatibility threw up this very recent discussion thread which claims that you can't run the later versions of iTunes on Leopard and, as iOS6 requires iTunes 10.7, you're screwed unless you upgrade your OS.

A torrent of Snow Leopard and a £15 purchase of Mountain Lion and you're good to go though.

throughsilver · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6197

Bamba wrote:

throughsilver wrote:

Pretty sure I have the latest iTunes.

Are you sure? I only ask because a quick Google about compatibility threw up this very recent discussion thread which claims that you can't run the later versions of iTunes on Leopard and, as iOS6 requires iTunes 10.7, you're screwed unless you upgrade your OS.

I'll have to check. My phone has suggested I upgrade iOS... so if I do, will my syncing go doolally?

They must have thought things through better than that, no?

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

throughsilver wrote:

They must have thought things through better than that, no?

Well, not according to that discussion thread; though I personally have zero knowledge of Macs and their workings. It does sounds like your safest option is to bite the bullet and upgrade your OS X install.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16559

I'm thinking of getting a new iPad. I've had my iPad 2 since not long after they were launched and it's done sterling service but it is starting to show its age a bit rendering some websites and running certain apps. I was going to sell it since I noticed they still go for nearly £200 however when I removed it from its case I found that there's a crack at one edge of the screen :'(

so we'll probably just keep it.

Anyway, been looking at the current iPad Air and then reading rumours about the new one. Not sure whether to wait or not. Can somebody tell me what to do?

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:47

i have the air, I can recommend it

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

There is some stuff here but (all rumour) on what the new one might have

https://bgr.com/2014/08/04/ipad-air-2-ipad-6-rumors/

If you can get by with your Ipad 2 for now I would wait as they are saying there will be some button and microphone position changes as well as the usual that it will be 0.000001mm thinner that the last one :DD

I recently got an Air and found it was much improved in performance over a 3 on reading comics and other stuff

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:56

The first three pages of this are quite the lols as to how wrong we all were.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16559

asfish wrote:

There is some stuff here but (all rumour) on what the new one might have

https://bgr.com/2014/08/04/ipad-air-2-ipad-6-rumors/

If you can get by with your Ipad 2 for now I would wait as they are saying there will be some button and microphone position changes as well as the usual that it will be 0.000001mm thinner that the last one :DD

I recently got an Air and found it was much improved in performance over a 3 on reading comics and other stuff

Hnnghh, yeah, but new shiny order today for delivery tomorrow.

To sum up though, it'll be a little quicker and have a fingerprint sensor?

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

markg wrote:

Anyway, been looking at the current iPad Air and then reading rumours about the new one. Not sure whether to wait or not. Can somebody tell me what to do?

From a very quick Google it looks like November-ish when they refresh the line so if you can wait that long it's probably worth it. If, as it seems, you'd be buying it and just using it for years you might as well get the best one you can to get your money's worth.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16559

The other thing of course is that current one can be had for £320 (I only need a 16GB WiFi) instead of the full RRP of £399, whereas there won't be any bargains to be had on the new one unless I wait for another year. So it's three months of waiting and another eighty quid for something that'll be very similar but a little quicker when even the current one should be night and day better than my iPad 2.

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