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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 20:35 
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That isn't a strong steering wheel. Try a direct drive wheel from OSW or Accuforce which can literally cause you injury if dial them up too far.

http://www.f1simulatormaniac.com/direct ... ing-wheel/


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 20:40 
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Muff Cabbage !

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Satsuma wrote:
I can’t help feel that that ginormous rig (see I’m all about the lingo now) is wasted on that pissy little monitor.


The problem is resolution. Most of these games max out at 640x480, then stretch. None are wide screen, nor would work with it. So buying a monitor is quite tricky. I would never have another CRT so the 17" (1280x1024) is about as far as I dare push the 3Dlabs. Remember, this card is less powerful than a Geforce 2. There are some 19" monitors around that are that res, but I could not find one without damage to the screen and that would drive me nuts. The Dell was only £18, and if you had something like that back in 2003 you would have been exceedingly well off. IIRC a 19" Belinea LCD back then was about a grand at least.

17" LCD is around the same size screen wise as a 19" CRT. Back in those days I rocked a 17" Belinea CRT with Nakamichi speakers and sub built into the base. So this is actually better.

Lonewolves wrote:
That isn't a strong steering wheel. Try a direct drive wheel from OSW or Accuforce which can literally cause you injury if dial them up too far.

http://www.f1simulatormaniac.com/direct ... ing-wheel/


That would likely break the desk lol.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:20 
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So Intel have hurried to market with their new Coffee Lake chips, thanks to AMD giving them an almighty kick up the arse with Ryzen and making Intel's existing mainstream and enthusiast CPU ranges look pretty fucking stupid.

Long story short is they've moved to 6/12 (cores/threads) in the i7 space for the first time (and the i5 gets 6 physical cores for the first time), whilst maintaining their superior IPC and high clock speeds - the i7 8700K overclocks comfortably to 5.0GHz (!).

Price wise they are getting pitched right into mix with Ryzen (the i7 around the 1700X's price point, and the i5 at the 1600's price point).

TBH if these had existed when I'd bought my new PC I'd probably have gone with the i7 8700K, but then again it was inevitable Intel would hit back against Ryzen with something impressive so it's not a surprise.

Ryzen's 8-core CPUs only best the 8700K in very heavy multi-threaded tasks (i.e. all 8 cores are utilised, whereby the 8 physical cores (16 threads) can outpace the 6 physical cores (12 threads)), but even then it's not a total stomping.

Also, whilst the 8700K is undeniably the better gaming CPU (and indeed the best gaming CPU in the world right now, full stop), once you crank the resolution up to 1440p (or higher) the GPU becomes far more of a factor, so the tests that DF have done in the link below don't tell the whole story. (They deliberately run these tests in what is effectively a CPU-bound scenario.)

Make no mistake though, these chips wouldn't exist at this price point were it not for Ryzen. (Some of the tech sites are saying Intel have brought their plans forward some 6-9 months due to the 'Ryzen Effect'.)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... 00k-review

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:34 
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If you wanted 8700k performance you could have just got a 7700k. In gaming there will be practically no difference, unless of course you are GPU bound but if you have a top end mainstream CPU that is unlikely.

These days pretty much any mainstream CPU is good enough for gaming. Even something like the Ryzen 1200 puts up a good show of itself. Going from a bottom end CPU to a top end one? if you have a decent GPU you can gain about 30%. However, if in that game you are already hitting 90 FPS then who GAF? and that is how it is with CPUs. This is why I only upgrade my CPU every 2-3 years and each time I have I have gone for higher core count over IPC and clock speed. Mostly because at 14 cores all loaded my CPU is perfectly well behaved and only hits 60c max. With a Intel mainstream CPU not only do you need to delid it* but you then need the rag the crap out of it.

*Don't expect all retail samples to hit 5ghz. Not without a delid and then very good cooling. Once again Intel have chosen to use paste and once again it will hinder the end user. It's that 5ghz carrot all over again.

I'm not Intel's biggest fan (even though I run Intel CPUs in 2/4 of my computers) but even I know that they are just getting worse. Z370 boards are quite expensive (£85 premium over most of their B350 counterparts) and it is being dropped in about 6 months time in favour of Z390. Which IMO is what Intel should have had ready but instead of taking Ryzen seriously they were too busy sat around on their arses. By then the next wave of Ryzen is expected, which will hopefully get around this clock speed "bug" it seems to suffer from. If they can get it up toward 4.5ghz it will again be right up there.

AMD still make the best CPU to buy right now. The 1600. It has dropped to £180, half the money of a 8700k. The board is at least £40 cheaper (apples to apples) and you most certainly don't lose half of the performance. 30% at best.

Which goes back to the current state of CPUs, IMO. I don't ever buy the fastest I buy what represents the best VFM and what is a true upgrade. You don't need the fastest one to game you just need a good GPU.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 19:04 
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Oh for sure I totally agree with all of that, I made a conscious decision to get the 1700X even though the 7700K was generally regarded to be the 'best gaming CPU'. The future is more cores and 8 physical cores for the same money as 4 physical cores (16 vs 8 threads) made good sense, the 8 core CPU from Intel when I bought the PC was £530 IIRC.

Of course Intel were going to hit back with something pretty quickly, although even there all they've really done with Coffee Lake is bump the core count by two, bumped the clock speed a bit, told everyone they need a new motherboard, and called it good. (i.e. It's still basically the same architecture.)

Plus looking at the pricing the 8700K is looking like it'll be a $400/£400 part, so a fair bump from the 1700X and about the same as an 1800X.

A few more benchmarks are coming out now and as expected, once you bump the resolution to 1440p (and even more so at 4K), the differential between the CPUs shrinks or even disappears completely, as the GPU takes on more of the workload - and who puts together the sort of PC we're talking about here to game at 1080p?

My target for the build was 1440p@60FPS@ULTRA+vsync and it's not missed a beat in anything so it's job done as far as I'm concerned.

This guy puts it very clearly, Intel have brought their roadmap forward 6-9 months, and Coffee Lake only exists because of Ryzen. I'd rather give my money to AMD, I don't like Intel as a company.

https://youtu.be/lmEAzxIfeDo?t=13m44s

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 21:19 
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Muff Cabbage !

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I'm kind of in two minds about Jay. As he was climbing the ladder he was a complete fanboy, but these days he is far more accepting of other parts. Which is nice, because otherwise I doubt I would have watched more than a couple of his vids. I must be getting old (or getting young?) because I watch Youtube quite a lot now. Far more than I ever have before.

But yeah, he makes a good point when he says that this CPU would not exist until 2018 if not for AMD. TBH? the way Intel are with cores? I sometimes wonder if it would have hit the mainstream at all if it weren't for Ryzen. Intel are notoriously stingy with cores. They have been making massively cored silicon for many years yet have kept it at half of its capable clocks and sold as a totally locked down Xeon. I mean, you can easily get a 12 core Ivy chip that drops straight into a X79 board. Ironically I upgraded my daily rig (which is ironic because I no longer use it daily lol, not since getting rid of the Alienware X99 board which had a very aggressive fan profile and swapped it out for a X99 SLi Plus) but just before I stopped using it* I upgraded it to a Xeon 2680V2 OEM. It's a 3.4ghz 8c/16t Ivy chip and I paid a ton for it just before Xmas last year. Before that I had the same chip, but it only ran 2ghz. Any way, the Xeon I ended up with is also a 2680, but a V4.

Sorry, now I am being completely geeky and very boring. :nerd:

* I also put a full cover water block on the Fury X to shut it up as well, with a nice fat Coolgate rad on a separate loop. So when I get off my fat ass I will plug that into the living room TV and use it on there. I just need a Xbone wireless dongle and a couple of battery packs/charger for the controller. The cable does reach, but only if you have it dangling through the air. I'm back into Fallout 4 now, and I am getting too old to be spending eight hours sitting in a PC chair.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:50 
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Great video about Coffee Lake here, if you're like, a proper nerd :nerd:

Dodgy shenanigans from Intel! Ryzen must have really rattled them.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:31 
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To be honest if every CL chip could do the same frequencies and it could be guaranteed that would not be bad at all for people who don't like overclocking. Overclocking has gotten easier over recent years to the point where all you had to do was go ahead and tap in a number and a volt value. MCE is a good idea, but it's Intel's recent statement about how they are not guaranteeing clocks that gets me.

I can't remember what letter of the alphabet it was now but going back to the I7 920 if you had one from C? D? batch it was a complete dog. Some could not overclock at all.

So MCE is a bit naughty because it definitely skews reviews and makes it look far better than it actually is (CL). Bit-tech just interviewed the top guy at Asus, Alex. Well worth a read mate. They seem to be a bit jaded at Intel atm. Especially as they have just released two 370 Strix boards that don't even work properly and don't really seem to give a crap (more on that below).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCAQpvFhiUs

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 13:48 
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I watched that yesterday :) I quite enjoy that guy's videos.

As for the CL thing, you have to wonder why Intel are stating a base clock of 2.8GHz for the low-end i5, and as the chap in the video surmises, it's because once you get normal production CPUs (not Intel's hand-picked examples) on lower-end motherboards (not high-end 370 chipset motherboards which are all that exist at the moment) - these 3.8GHz boosts across all cores will magically cease to exist, but it won't really matter as all the reviews are out already, even if the chips themselves can't be bought as it's effectively a paper launch.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 13:41 
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I'm really liking this chap's YouTube output, I've signed up for that PATREON thing so I can start to chuck a couple of quid his way every month.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 16:12 
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Muff Cabbage !

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I like the guy. A lot. He also replies to comments and engages with people. Truth if ever needed, don't piss off a determined Scot !

I think a lot of people don't realise how long this guy has been around, and how much info he has. But I can 100% vouch, he's spot on. Just after I met my first wife over Yahoo I got a job working at a local computer shop. It was a pretty small shop (two small old stores) but the reason we were always busy was because we bought the rights to Amstrad CPC, and basically had all of the parts Sugar wanted gone. This meant we were the only "official" UK stockist for the parts. You wouldn't believe how much money they made from that. How many older folk wanted them repaired etc..

Any way the other part of our business was school contracts. So we sold *a lot* of pre built PCs, and serviced and repaired them too. Now when I started working there in '98 there was only really Intel around. AMD did have the K62 or whatever but it wasn't very good. Now we had already been told outright by Intel that if we overclocked CPUs and they got wind of it they would never supply us with another CPU. Totally anti overclocking and very gung ho about it too. We would get constant threats from them.

So yeah, sorry for digressing.. What I was leading onto was how Intel behaved when the Athlon came out. The original slot one. Slot A? something like that, it was basically a take on Intel's slot 1. The Intel rep came around and basically said blatantly that if we stocked a single AMD product that they would pull their contract and never sell us anything Intel again. And I remember telling the rep "That's fucking BS" and he said that was the way it was.

And they haven't changed at all. IIRC they have just settled on that? or it may even be ongoing. But that put me off of Intel, and is why I have a chip on my shoulder.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 16:16 
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JohnCoffey wrote:

Any way the other part of our business was school contracts. So we sold *a lot* of pre built PCs, and serviced and repaired them too. Now when I started working there in '98 there was only really Intel around. AMD did have the K62 or whatever but it wasn't very good. Now we had already been told outright by Intel that if we overclocked CPUs and they got wind of it they would never supply us with another CPU. Totally anti overclocking and very gung ho about it too. We would get constant threats from them.



I would imagine it voided support contracts doing so.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 16:28 
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Muff Cabbage !

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Well bugger me. I had not watched the video before I posted that ^. Just watching it now and I literally had shivers running down my spine when he got to the Athlon CPUs. That's *exactly* what Intel did to us.

Kov - no, the contracts with the schools were between us (Edcom, or Educational Computers) and the schools. However, for CPUs we bought directly from Intel and were an authorised seller. For HDDs, floppys etc we used distros but Intel had their contracts directly with businesses, so there was no middle man. And this was good for us, because it meant we got all of the POS crap to put in the windows and so on. Which was why my boss basically shit it and bent over. We never sold a single AMD CPU...

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 16:37 
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You still had a contract with Intel, on purchasing the CPUs. If you clocked them, you are voided any warranty on the CPU. Which is the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 16:50 
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Muff Cabbage !

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KovacsC wrote:
You still had a contract with Intel, on purchasing the CPUs. If you clocked them, you are voided any warranty on the CPU. Which is the same thing.


Oh on the overclocking? sure. They were against it from day one. AMD on the other hand didn't care.

Irony is here we are all of these years later and Intel are actually selling and marketing unlocked overclockable CPUs.

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