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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 13:33 
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Gogmagog

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DavPaz wrote:
MaliA wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpighian_tubule_system

I did malpighian tubule development as an undergrad, then was a molecular biologist with bacteria and insect cells.

It wasn't "flies fucking"

Same thing, really.


Skipping a lit of bits: It was expected that a gene influencing malpighian tubule development lay on the third chromosome. So flies were irradiated to produce mutations. These flies, however, had a second 3rd chromosome which has easily identifiable mutations on it. These are things like eye color, curly wings, hairy back and stuff you can see under a lens.

So, the flies were bred*, and eggs dissected, and fly embryos stained with antibodies to find tip cells which influence development. Then you take photos. Over a few generations, you can work out where the suspected gene is by what mutations show up with what crosses and then you go to NCBI Blast and pull candidate genes from the genome database in that region. From there you can then do molecular biology and get a structure if you want.

*9am, noon and 6pm you put CO2 in the vial for 20 secs or so and they go to sleep. You put them on a pad with CO2 Co. ING from it and using a paintbrush separate boy flis and non virgin female flies from the rest and bin them. 15 virgin females go back onto vials with some marmite and one male. I got it the wrong gway around once. She died. Put vials back in incubator at 20 Celsius or 18 overnight.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 15:01 
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Paws for thought

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Meanwhile, I remember this much of my undergrad project on tmRNA:

That it was on tmRNA and failed transcription recovery.
Our hypothesis turned out incorrect.
Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Man Sized Fridge, Cold, Cold, Cold, Cold, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette, Pipette.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 15:14 
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Gogmagog

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Rogue Trooper was ahead of its time regarding RNAI and it's gene silencing effects.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:45 
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Anyone use a 4K monitor for their PC?

Was quite suprised to see that you can get this for £740, a Dell 43 inch screen

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/43-dell ... -black?v=b

I have a 30 inch Dell TFT and pretty sure that was the thick end of £650 when I bought it

Also see for those with deep pockets Scan do an 8K screen, 31.5 inch costing £3400. Has a resolution of 7680X4320, would a 1080TI even drive that ?

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/32-dell ... ayport?v=b


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:14 
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Thanks, HP.

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Screenshot 2017-11-28 at 09.12.51.png


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:09 
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Have to say Scan are pretty shit to order from.

Had another high-end GPU PC requirement for an "innovation room" that has been redecorated and had new modern furniture installed

Its all a white and minimalistic so I ordered this

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/3xs-car ... 080-ti?v=b

I ordered it through a reseller as it takes forever to get accounts set up at work as purchasing sit on everything pissing around trying to negotiate savings.

The site said it was a next day stock deliver so 2 weeks ago I order. Straight away it moves to 7 days. Then yesterday I asked where it was and get told that they haven't got the cards or the SLI bridge in stock and suggest some options. I only get this feedback after we chase them.

The cards they proposed were fine but the bridge looked shit, just a bit of circuit board, not an issue for a normal PC but not great for one with clear sides.

So they find a better one and we are back on track then this morning they are back telling me the cards they proposed as replacements don't work with the cooling so offer a 3rd choice which I accept.

The thing that pisses me off is that the PC and all the cards and other parts they say they have issues with are still showing as next day delivery on their site.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:40 
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Sitting balls-back folder

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Wouldn't a solid case fit a minimalist environment better? Hidden in a piece of furniture for preference?


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:54 
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BikNorton wrote:
Wouldn't a solid case fit a minimalist environment better? Hidden in a piece of furniture for preference?


You would think so :) They like the glass sides on this one though.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 18:17 
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It just gets better >:|

The PC arrives at my resellers this afternoon, then they were bringing it down tomorrow as they had some project work to do.

When they go to load it, they discover that its pissed white coolant all over the box

Scan are trying to blame DPD, but there are no dents on the box, so suspect they didn't tighten all the pipes.

Then had a message that Scan was thinking they were going to wipe up the mess and send us the unit back, told them no and that I want another one.

No chance of this being in place before Xmas, which doesn't really matter now as people will be off on holiday in a weeks time


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 18:22 
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This is probably why people let the purchasing department do the purchasing.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 18:33 
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Blimey that's pretty shit for a five grand PC. Have to say this is partly why I'm not a fan of liquid cooling in PCs at all, especially these more exotic custom loop arrangements.

Then again Scan should have packed the thing well enough to withstand shocks in transit. It's possible the box was dropped 'flat' rather than on its sides/corners, so even though the box looks intact maybe it's had a hard vertical jolt somewhere along the way.

On the bright side, at least it's not your own PC!

On a wider note this is partly the result of the 'rush to the bottom' in terms of couriers, I remember when getting shit couriered was fucking expensive, but with that came a certain quality of service. Now they just have any random chancer lobbing things around and paying them poverty wages for the privilege, so it's little surprise stuff gets fucked all the time.

There's a guy on our street does Hermes deliveries, the local 'proper' courier firm brings a Transit van full of stuff to his house two or three days a week, and he bundles it all into his hallway, and then delivers it out in his own car over the course of the day. It says something as to how cheap it must be to get him to do it when all the packages are already in a courier's van, and yet it works out cheaper to unload all the stuff out of the actual courier's van, and then get him to deliver it all in his car.

He doesn't look very happy about it either, and proper lobs the packages into the back of his car sometimes. I feel a bit bad really because I've got a fucking estate car that never has anything in the back of it, and he's trying to squeeze his delivery into the rear of a little three-door Citroen with the seats folded down.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 18:55 
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Grim... wrote:
This is probably why people let the purchasing department do the purchasing.


Still would come from Scan though.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 18:55 
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Presumably that delivery van goes and gets another vanload and dumps it in someone else's hallway.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 18:59 
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Quote:
On a wider note this is partly the result of the 'rush to the bottom' in terms of couriers, I remember when getting shit couriered was fucking expensive, but with that came a certain quality of service. Now they just have any random chancer lobbing things around and paying them poverty wages for the privilege, so it's little surprise stuff gets fucked all the time.


It costs £11.50 to ship this PC next day via Scan, its costs me £11 to ship an Ipad to a remote user on next day before 1 pm

So either they use cut-price services, or they hide some of the true delivery cost in the price of the PC


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 18:59 
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He goes back home, where a huge lorry has dumped a massive pile of parcels in his hallway, and ferries it load by load to dump in other peoples hallway.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 23:15 
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asfish wrote:
Grim... wrote:
This is probably why people let the purchasing department do the purchasing.


Still would come from Scan though.


Well sure, but then it's purchasing's problem, not your problem. I can't even understand how this reached you in that condition.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 23:24 
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Gogmagog

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Cras wrote:
asfish wrote:
Grim... wrote:
This is probably why people let the purchasing department do the purchasing.


Still would come from Scan though.


Well sure, but then it's purchasing's problem, not your problem. I can't even understand how this reached you in that condition.


Something wasn't right

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 16:02 
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Quote:
Well sure, but then it's purchasing's problem, not your problem. I can't even understand how this reached you in that condition
.

Purchasing doesn't work like that in my place. They get involved with new suppliers or when there is a large spend on say a project.

After they have provided "savings" thats it. Everyone who has a cost centre at my place orders their own stuff or in some cases pushes it to a a PA.

So the PC got to my reseller in that state and he sent me the pictures, I've not seen it yet as Scan took it back at around 2pm from them


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 17:22 
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I thought I posted here about this. Might have been one of those times where I read it over and thought "cba" and just deleted it before posting..

This happens all of the time with Scan. One of the forums I frequent for modding etc allows free shipping if you are a member of said community. All I ever see is people complaining that they have ordered something from Scan, delivery day came and went and it turns out Scan made a "stock error" and did not have the item they bought. However, just like you, Scan left it for the buyer to work out and did not contact them immediately nor refund them immediately. And this happens all of the time. I had a bad experience with them many years ago and vowed never to order from them ever again. And I pretty much stuck to my vow, apart from once when they had a stupendous deal going on the Radeon 7990 with a free £130 power supply. However, I made sure to do it through Ebay and using Paypal, just in case.

If you want the best these days it's Amazon or Overclockers UK. The former have a no argument warranty (IE unlike Scan they would argue over it) and the latter just have the best customer service anywhere. Even Amazon can be a bit vacant, but OCUK are trained and know all about what they are selling. With OCUK if I ever have an order issue* I just post in the customer service area of their forum and Bailey sorts it bloody fast..

*In three years of ordering and since Caseking took over I have had two or three issues. Once I bought a Bitspower reservoir in red in their clearance section and it was not red it was clear (which I was delighted about) but the caps were chrome and not black. BP premium caps are £8 each, Bailey sent me three of those so I could match the fittings.

Then another time I ordered three 45 deg fittings and they had lost one, so I got the two they did have for peanuts and etc. They really are fantastic. I also had a monitor with a line down it and the stand was missing, again they were quick. DPD came the very next day took it away and I got my refund the moment it was collected.

Approachable, negotiable and agreeable I think sums it up best. Unlike Scan who are rude, aggressive and etc. Oh, and don't use Ebuyer either FFS. Worst company ever.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 17:24 
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Also. OCUK refused to build and sell hardline rigs until the glued fittings came out. IE - you literally glue the piping to the fitting. This is why !

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:55 
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Prince of Fops

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Interesting

https://twitter.com/nicoleperlroth/status/948684376249962496


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:31 
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Findus Fop wrote:

No... terrifying.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:56 
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Can you imagine what an Intel recall would be like?


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:00 
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Yes we're trawling through all the currently available information right now, and deciding what we need to do, and how quickly.

Unless I'm missing it though, some of the details are still embargoed so it's hard to do a full assessment.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:44 
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Hearthly wrote:
some of the details are still embargoed


:this:

Have a read of The Register's stories about it.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:56 
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How does this effect folks, in real terms?

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:20 
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KovacsC wrote:
How does this effect folks, in real terms?

Unclear. It's likely that most malware creators only learned about the flaw very recently


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:25 
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KovacsC wrote:
How does this effect folks, in real terms?


Lots of patching, OS and applications. And patching that may well negatively impact machine performance.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:29 
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KovacsC wrote:
How does this effect folks, in real terms?


From a normal user perspective it's just a case of install any and all patches that are released in a timely manner, (which you should be doing anyway, all the time), and things should carry on as normal.

The reported potential performance hit probably won't impact the average home user either. (Generally speaking 'home user' stuff won't be doing much in the way of constant system calls in and out of the kernel.)

It's a far more significant problem for enterprise workloads, where a 20-30% performance hit (if realised), could have a significant impact. Anecdotally some folks who use Amazon Web Services are seeing their servers chugging after the recent forced (post-patch) reboots. (Which could then impact home users because the websites that you're accessing are running slower on the backend.)

My early guess on this is that it's mostly a business/enterprise problem, although their problems can become everyone else's problems quite easily, of course. (But there's not much the Average Joe can do about that.....)


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:38 
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I'm not sure I agree with that. Literally everything a home user does involves constant calls into and out of the kernel. You can't read from disk or send something to the screen without invoking kernel level functions - that's the whole point of the shared virtual memory space that's being attacked here.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:50 
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A problem shared is a problem halved. So were only half completely fucked, right?

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:52 
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Cras wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with that. Literally everything a home user does involves constant calls into and out of the kernel. You can't read from disk or send something to the screen without invoking kernel level functions - that's the whole point of the shared virtual memory space that's being attacked here.


I'm thinking more about playing games and stuff like that, where a 20-30% performance hit would be immediately noticeable - which from my take on this shouldn't be a result of the patches. Could be wrong though!

EDIT - And reading around elsewhere that does seem to be a standard conclusion?


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 
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One of the discovered flaws has no software fix apparently, and would necessitate complete CPU replacement.

Ouch.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:01 
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Hearthly wrote:
Cras wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with that. Literally everything a home user does involves constant calls into and out of the kernel. You can't read from disk or send something to the screen without invoking kernel level functions - that's the whole point of the shared virtual memory space that's being attacked here.


I'm thinking more about playing games and stuff like that, where a 20-30% performance hit would be immediately noticeable - which from my take on this shouldn't be a result of the patches. Could be wrong though!

EDIT - And reading around elsewhere that does seem to be a standard conclusion?


Depends. The actual graphical performance of the games themselves? Probably minimal impact. Disk read-write times will likely see a hit. If you've not RAM-packed a box and there's a heavy reliance on virtual memory paging? Definitely a hit.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:05 
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GazChap wrote:
One of the discovered flaws has no software fix apparently, and would necessitate complete CPU replacement.

Ouch.


That's the 'Spectre' one, which is by far the harder to exploit and also, as I understand it, will not allow access across hypervisors in cloud solutions/Hyper-V hosts etc. (This affects all CPU architectures.)

The more shitty of the two is 'Meltdown', which affects Intel CPUs and is the bigger threat in cloud scenarios and suchlike. But this can be patched at a software level.

The real risk with Meltdown is that on shared web servers (AWS/Google Cloud/etc) someone could pay for a VM on a host, and then use the exploit to pinch data from other VMs running on the same host.

My current understanding of both of these exploits is that they require user input, so the old 'getting someone to click on a link' or 'run a program' and so on. (That's what makes Meltdown so bad on shared hosts, as a malicious actor could do this specifically to steal data from other VMs on the same host.)


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:15 
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Hearthly wrote:
The real risk with Meltdown is that on shared web servers (AWS/Google Cloud/etc) someone could pay for a VM on a host, and then use the exploit to pinch data from other VMs running on the same host.
Also that you can use Javascript running on a web page to read protected browser memory; perhaps sniffing out stored login cookies or credentials to banking websites. It might be more cost effective now to run attack JS looking for Coinbase creds than it is to run JS Bitcoin miners, for example.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:51 
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You can protect against JavaScript exploiting this by making each website run in a seprate process:
Chrome: chrome://flags/#enable-site-per-process (copy and paste that into Chrome)
Firefox: https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/22/how-t ... n-firefox/
IE / Edge / Safari: https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/d ... index.html

Note that you may see a performance hit, although I haven't noticed anything.

There's plenty of good information about what's actually happened here: https://meltdownattack.com

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 13:06 
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That is common sense..

Quote:
If your computer has a vulnerable processor and runs an unpatched operating system, it is not safe to work with sensitive information without the chance of leaking the information. This applies both to personal computers as well as cloud infrastructure. Luckily, there are software patches against Meltdown.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 13:17 
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Patched OSs are 10.13.2 of MacOs, or one of the following Windows 10 build versions:
16299.192
15063.850
14393.2007
10586.1356
10240.17738
(FFS Microsoft)

To help you decide if you need to bother:

https://twitter.com/misc0110/status/948706387491786752



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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 13:21 
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As for Linux, Kernel 4.15rc6 has enabled KPTI (the patch) and it has been backported to Linux Kernel 4.14.11, 4.9.74, 4.4.109, 3.16.52, and 3.2.97.

https://cdn.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel ... og-4.14.11

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 15:51 
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Grim... wrote:
Patched OSs are 10.13.2 of MacOs, or one of the following Windows 10 build versions:
16299.192
15063.850
14393.2007
10586.1356
10240.17738
(FFS Microsoft)

To help you decide if you need to bother:

https://twitter.com/misc0110/status/948706387491786752






My Windows 10 is 16299.125, nothing coming from Windows update either

So I went here and got the 16299.192 update here

http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com ... =KB4056892

-


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 16:10 
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https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... s-released


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 16:20 
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zaphod79 wrote:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4072699/important-information-regarding-the-windows-security-updates-released



I have the reg key they mention, maybe its just a case of waiting. I know my Dad just got Creators last week, I got it weeks ago.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 17:15 
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I hope my Windows 10 doesn't get gimped with a blanket fix for Meltdown, as visionary forward thinkers such as myself who went for Ryzen should be unscathed.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 17:31 
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Some early pre and post-patch benchmarks for normal PC users and PC gamers.

Games not impacted at all.

Some small impact in synthetic benchmarks, but nothing that should impact daily PC use.

It is starting to look like server workloads could suffer some serious performance impacts after the patch though. (And potentially home PCs performing 'server style' tasks, or certain productivity tasks, etc.)



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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 18:15 
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Hearthly wrote:
I hope my Windows 10 doesn't get gimped with a blanket fix for Meltdown, as visionary forward thinkers such as myself who went for Ryzen should be unscathed.

AMD chips are also affected by Spectre (as are Arm chips).

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 18:40 
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Grim... wrote:
AMD chips are also affected by Spectre (as are Arm chips).


Yeah but I'm not that fussed about Spectre, and the fix for it is expected to be fairly trivial anyway. (With little or no performance impact.)

I'm not even that fussed about Meltdown TBH (from a personal home user perspective), unless the baddies can make it work remotely with no user intervention required (i.e. just visiting a compromised website), and get very good at snaffling juicy information with it in the process.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 18:43 
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Spectre is the one that can run over JavaScript and can't be patched by the OS.

I agree that the risk seems minimal at the moment, but I'm going to keep watching.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 21:32 
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just switch off javascript!

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 21:38 
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I'm looking forward to going back to work next week just to see what kind of drama is going on from this. Also: fallout from MIFID II. Fun stuff!


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