Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.
It is currently Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:19

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 630 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 18:32 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 29275
Hearthly wrote:
Morte wrote:
Not sure about the timers though.


I'm rather hoping these will get modded out.

I think you should keep an open mind and not have a knee-jerk reaction against them because they are different. They're clearly a key mechanic, and not one Firaxis have added lightly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 18:46 
User avatar
I forgot about this - how vain

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5960
Agreed.

It's interesting in how it forces you to push. I have snipers who I position high on overwatch as my rangers dart forward.

_________________
Curiosity wrote:
The Rev Owen wrote:
Is there a way to summon lave?

Faith schools, scientologists and 2-D platform games.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 19:31 
User avatar
gooby pls

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 11308
Location: Shrewsbury, UK
I am absolutely terrible at this, and despite my best efforts never seem able to set up a successful concealment ambush.

I've had to drop difficulty down to Rookie - what the hell's happened to me?

_________________
Mostly pointless witterings of a fool. gazchap.com
Source Design - Graphic Design and Web Design Shropshire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 20:16 
User avatar
Thanks

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 9913
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Morte wrote:
Not sure about the timers though.


I'm rather hoping these will get modded out.

I think you should keep an open mind and not have a knee-jerk reaction against them because they are different. They're clearly a key mechanic, and not one Firaxis have added lightly.


I entirely take your point but it's hard to overstate how much I hate it when games force me forwards against my instincts and my preferred way of playing - I love taking my time and exploring everything and feeling as safe as possible, right from my very earliest experiences with the genre (and I'm going back to the Rebelstar/Laser Squad era on the ZX Spectrum here).

I remember playing through the original Command & Conquer on PC and discovering that the AI was too dumb to blast its way through walls I built as it didn't see them as 'hostile', as long as all the AI's units were also out of range of my base/units, so if I left it no route whatsoever into my base it would simply amass a huge force on my 'wall border' and do nothing with them indefinitely, which gave me infinite time to prepare the perfect base and force to annihilate the would-be invaders with zero casualties, even if it took until 3am in the morning to complete a single level (which it did, and absolutely brought my 486 DX-2 to its knees as I don't think the game engine was designed to cope with so much 'stuff' being active at once).

Same goes for all other RTS games and suchlike, I love to turtle down and do things on my own timetable, the levels I disliked the most in Dungeon Keeper 2 were the ones where I had aggressive dungeon breaches to deal with from very early on. (And the one single thing I'd identify as not liking about the Terran campaign on Starcraft 2 as opposed to the original, is the way Starcarft 2 is constantly nagging at you to 'GO HERE, DO THIS, TIME IS SHORT'.)

I appreciate this is very much a case of 'me not liking the mechanic of a turn timer' (or similar) rather than there being anything inherently wrong with the mechanic, but it is a consideration for me when it comes to X-Com 2. That said, when I buy the game (which I will) I'll most likely try it as Firaxis intended it to be to start with, but equally likely mod it out when I remember I do indeed really not like turn timers :)

_________________
Proudly charging wirelessly since 2014


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 21:03 
SupaMod
User avatar
Everybodys gilf

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 45108
I used to build a line of sandbags all the way to the enemy base and wall them in. Then build turrets in their base.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 22:06 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 61915
Location: Your Mum
Hopefully someone will mod the aliens out for you, too.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 22:27 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 29275
The timers work well because they are entirely thematically consistent with the rest of XCOM. They require you to carefully gauge risk, and reward -- and then balance them against each other. It's just another layer on top of the eight or nine you are already juggling: you never have enough of anything to do everything, and this time around, even your time is (sometimes) constrained that way too.

I used to play XCOM very cautiously. Move one AP only, set overwatch, repeat. When I returned to XCOM to play Enemy Within, the new Meld mechanic forced me outside my comfort zone, and that's entirely in the spirit of the game. You're supposed to sweat a little, and agonise over tiny decisions with huge consequences.

Also the last mission I had had a 12-turn timer and I evac'd with 7 turns on the clock. One before that I finished on the very last turn, but only because I (deliberately) played it very safe at the end knowing I had time to reach the goal.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:50 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 29275
Rookie Bajirao Singham is "shaken" and has reduced Will. FFS XCOM, don't you know who this is?

It's also made him a Specialist which is also rubbish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:13 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 25750
Location: Kidbrooke
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Rookie Bajirao Singham is "shaken" and has reduced Will. FFS XCOM, don't you know who this is?

It's also made him a Specialist which is also rubbish.


Now he's losing his MIND!

_________________
I've got a bad feeling about this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:50 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 61915
Location: Your Mum
Curiosity wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Rookie Bajirao Singham is "shaken" and has reduced Will. FFS XCOM, don't you know who this is?

It's also made him a Specialist which is also rubbish.


Now he's losing his MIND!

Why is there no head-poking gif for this? Someone that owns the DVD should fix that immediately.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:43 
User avatar
gooby pls

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 11308
Location: Shrewsbury, UK
Well, dropping difficulty down to Rookie has helped - although the complexity of the new Geoscape is going to take a bit of getting used to, seems like there's about three million different things I need to pay attention to this time around!

_________________
Mostly pointless witterings of a fool. gazchap.com
Source Design - Graphic Design and Web Design Shropshire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:14 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 29275
GazChap wrote:
although the complexity of the new Geoscape is going to take a bit of getting used to, seems like there's about three million different things I need to pay attention to this time around!
I think that's just unfamiliarity. Like, making contact with areas and building radio comms rooms is just like satellites in XCOM, but it took me a bit to realise that. (Also, my typical XCOM strategy is to rush satellites and I think I completely spannered that up this time.)

Does anyone else think the Dark Events are a lot like the You Can Choose Which Terrible Thing Will Happen But At Least One Will card mechanism in the XCOM board game?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:50 
User avatar
gooby pls

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 11308
Location: Shrewsbury, UK
Yeah, they totally are. But then, they seem to have ramped up massively the "We're going to give you a variety of options. We're not going to lie, they're all shit and are basically just there to highlight how hard a job you're going to have stopping the aliens this time, but Image

The timed missions (the ones that don't end in instant failure) particularly.

_________________
Mostly pointless witterings of a fool. gazchap.com
Source Design - Graphic Design and Web Design Shropshire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:53 
User avatar
Kinda Funny Lookin'

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3103
Location: Sheffield or Chiswick
I quite like Kotaku's description of the game: “turn based grief simulator”.

also the line in their review...

Quote:
...you recently researched armor that will hopefully keep your low level troops from getting one-shotted by The Big Shapeshifting Assholes, The Robot Assholes, and The Assholes Who Can Fucking Teleport Are You Fucking Kidding Me.


Codex Aliens are the effing worst (so far).

_________________
If work was so rewarding the rich would have bought it all.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 13:05 
User avatar
Fitness Nut...

Joined: 25th Sep, 2008
Posts: 18001
Location: shropshire, uk
i want to get this, but I have to finished the previous one...

_________________
MetalAngel wrote:
Kovacs: From 'unresponsive' to 'kebab' in 3.5 seconds


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 13:51 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 41881
Location: West Yorkshire
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-bril ... player-745

Vice love the time limits

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 16:26 
User avatar
Thanks

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 9913
MaliA wrote:
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-brilliant-new-strategy-game-xcom-2-turns-time-itself-against-the-player-745

Vice love the time limits


I'm happy to be proven wrong in the fullness of time, but reading that piece (even though it was written in praise of the mechanic) - makes the whole 'hurry up' thing sound like something I'll really dislike.

_________________
Proudly charging wirelessly since 2014


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 16:34 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15355
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
I'd concur. I generally don't like being rushed in games anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 16:43 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 29275
Title of your sex tape.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 16:44 
User avatar
Lupine member

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48173
Location: Nottingham
Play different games that don't have time limits :shrug:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 17:21 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15355
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
Lonewolves wrote:
Play different games that don't have time limits :shrug:

Indeed.

Look at how much I've played XCOM 2.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 17:27 
User avatar
Lupine member

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48173
Location: Nottingham
I can't wait for them to mod Football Manager into an FPS.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 17:36 
User avatar
Thanks

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 9913
Mr Dave wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Play different games that don't have time limits :shrug:

Indeed.

Look at how much I've played XCOM 2.


:this:

Waiting for it cheap in a sale.

Without the whole 'hurry up' thing so firmly embedded, it'd quite likely have been a Day One purchase for me.

_________________
Proudly charging wirelessly since 2014


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 19:00 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 61915
Location: Your Mum
Press caps lock to cut loading times by up to 30 seconds :?:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... -in-xcom-2

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 20:00 
SupaMod
User avatar
Everybodys gilf

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 45108
Disk transfer rates are higher in uppercase

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 21:03 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 29275
Caps lock is cruise control for cool.

bUT yOU sTILL hAVE to sTEER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 23:39 
User avatar
gooby pls

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 11308
Location: Shrewsbury, UK
Just fought through my first Avenger Defense mission.

Cor blimey, a bit tough, eh? 27 out of 32 aliens killed before I made it back to the landing pad.

1 soldier killed, 7 gravely wounded.

I get the feeling that the agonising wait period of having to ignore missions in order to get my squad back to full health has basically put me in an unwinnable game state :/

_________________
Mostly pointless witterings of a fool. gazchap.com
Source Design - Graphic Design and Web Design Shropshire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 
User avatar
Thanks

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 9913
If you look at the Steam and Metacritic negative user reviews, many of which are clearly written by people who aren't:

1) Imbeciles
2) Just hating on the game for the sake of it

and are:

1) Measured and considered opinions of the game and how it works
2) A serious critique of the new 'hurry up' mechanics

The same themes come through time and time again, too much RNG, not enough chance to act strategically, run 'n gun required, bugs, glitches, magical enemies, obvious optimal strategy etc etc.

Current split on Metacritic for users is 134 negative, 65 mixed, 331 positive. Steam shows a better split for positive, 5019 versus 1717 - but the negatives do bring up all those same criticisms again and again.

Eurogamer reports that Firaxis are working on a patch for various issues, mods can perhaps take care of the timers and suchlike, although one of the reviews suggests that the game is only difficult because of the timers forcing you into 'rush' style tactics, remove that and it actually becomes very easy.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/xcom- ... t=negative

http://store.steampowered.com/app/26850 ... views_hash

Quote:
XCOM 2 is challenging, but for the wrong reasons. Most of it comes from the randomness that exists as its core mechanic, from the level design (procedural), to hit chances, to turn limit sizes, to world map events. Whether you'll like it or not depends on what you want out of it.

Personally, I'd prefer a more tightly designed game that is harder than this (more enemies in maps +bigger maps +more "puzzle-y" encounters), but without the timers and stress and RNG everywhere. I'd rather have developer-designed maps and missions with tough encounters where you need to utilize the terrain and your equipment in the right way, rather than proceduraly generated missions with a turn limit that is barely enough for you to sprint to the objective and destroy it, and then pray as the 4 pods that you aggroed along the way rain down on you from the ceilings and wipe out your entire squad while your overwatches miss. Only to go back to the world map and see the Avatar gaining its 3rd ping in the same week due to RNG dark events.

XCOM 2 is overwhelming in a way that makes you feel helpless. Because you are. Better read some Reddit threads and restart the whole thing, doing only the absolutely most optimal things. Why do the rest of the options exist again?

You can mod out all the crazy 8 turn limits and massive random spikes in Avatar progress though. Great. What you are left with then is an extremely easy game. Guess why. Because that's what it is. An extremely easy game, made hard only through RNG rigged to screw you as a core design philosophy. The encounters themselves are easy and the maps are poorly designed, like everything procedural. There's no actual depth. There are no "damn, I'm a genious" moments as you lure an overwhelming force back to a well fortified position with half of your squad lying in the perfect ambush. The game gives you no time to think. No time to strategize. No time to have fun.

_________________
Proudly charging wirelessly since 2014


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:25 
User avatar
gooby pls

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 11308
Location: Shrewsbury, UK
Steam Reviewer wrote:
Personally, I'd prefer a more tightly designed game that is harder than this (more enemies in maps +bigger maps +more "puzzle-y" encounters), but without the timers and stress and RNG everywhere. I'd rather have developer-designed maps and missions with tough encounters where you need to utilize the terrain and your equipment in the right way

Which is basically what XCOM:EU was.

Then, once all the players had exhausted every possible way of playing that, and had min-maxed it to shit, they asked for - nay, demanded - procedural maps, turn limits to add tension (the first workings of which were added in Enemy Within.), and more depth to the Geoscape.

So Firaxis do this, and everyone moans.

_________________
Mostly pointless witterings of a fool. gazchap.com
Source Design - Graphic Design and Web Design Shropshire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:29 
SupaMod
User avatar
Everybodys gilf

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 45108
To be fair, if you add timers because a bunch of players say 'we want it to be more stressful', the absolute very first thing you add is an option to turn off the timers. Because then everyone's happy, surely?

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 630 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Columbo, Kern, Vogons and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.