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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 22:57 
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Grim... wrote:
Any (popular) phone with a removable battery can be fitted with a wireless charge system.


That sounds like a faff compared to 'just plop your phone on top of a pad' though.

One on my desk at work, one on my desk at home - job done.

Having to plug wires into a phone to charge it again will be a very retrograde step. What are these 'wireless charge systems' then? It sounds very much like what my Nexus 5 has which THEY TOOK OUT OF THE NEXUS 6.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 23:19 
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Any phone not charging from 0% to 50% in twenty minutes is a retrograde step. When wireless chargers can do that, I'll welcome them back.

Edit - also the Nexus 6 has wireless charging. Also also, other Android handsets exist. Some of them have wireless charging!


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 23:54 
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Ahhh yes it's the 6P they took wireless charging out of isn't it - whatever the case I'm just a ball of incandescent rage about the whole affair.

I'm sure this USB-C thing is fantastic with its mega-quick charging, but for me it's still a case of for the last 18 months I've got used to my phone charging without me plugging it into anything, so take that away and I get upset.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 0:50 
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Took my phone off charge at about 9am this morning. 15 hours later it's on 76%, and is planning to go for another two days.

That's pretty fucking good.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:11 
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It'd be even fucking gooder if you didn't have to PLUG THE THING IN USING WIRES when it needs charging again.

I will probably bear this grudge until the day I die.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:17 
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If only there were other Android phones you could buy instead :(


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:25 
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This is "pure" doze mode on my Nexus 6. I took it off charge at about 10pm and immediately put it on my bedside table, then took this screenshot as soon as I picked it up this morning. So it's done nothing but doze. It loses about 1% per hour.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:55 
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That is quite good in all fairness. At this rate we'll almost have mobile phones with battery life as impressive as we had in 1999.

I got given a Nokia for work in 1999, think it was a 5110? That thing used to do ten days between charges sometimes. Admittedly you could only play Snake on it, and it only held about 40 text messages before you had to start deleting some. But even so.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:58 
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If you turn everything apart from voice/text off in a modern phone, and just use it for the odd call or text, then it will easily go a week I find.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:59 
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Trooper wrote:
If you turn everything apart from voice/text off in a modern phone, and just use it for the odd call or text, then it will easily go a week I find.

My work Moto G does about 8-9 days.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 13:49 
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My phone has an "ultra battery life" function! that just makes it into a basic phone, it is quite good and generally saves about 10-12 hours if used from full, so making the battery life about 4 days.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 13:54 
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Hearthly wrote:
At this rate we'll almost have mobile phones with battery life as impressive as we had in 1999....Admittedly you could only play Snake on it, and it only held about 40 text messages before you had to start deleting some.
Hey what if those two statements were related somehow?

The 5110 had a 600 mAhr Li-Po or a 900 mAhr "slim line" Li-Ion battery, compared to the 1800-3500 mAhr batteries found in modern smart phones. It's not like there's a conspiracy to make them not last as long. They just do a fuckton more stuff, and also, battery chemistry has barely advanced since the 5110 days because physical sciences don't follow Moore's law.

This is a bit like complaining that you get better fuel economy out of a car than a helicopter. I mean, you do, but it's not like those two things are equally capable.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 13:58 
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I've just got used to plugging my phone in every night and don't find it to be that big of a deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 13:58 
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At home and at work. Basically if I'm in one place for any amount of time my phone is plugged in, and I'm fine with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 14:04 
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Wouldn't it be cool if you could just put your phone down on a pad or something and it charged without needing to plug it in.
They should totally put that in a phone.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 14:08 
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I ended up going for a different phone, but if you care that much about battery life, get this:
http://www.dx.com/p/lenovo-p1-5-5-fhd-a ... nfc-408171


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 14:10 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hey what if those two statements were related somehow?

The 5110 had a 600 mAhr Li-Po or a 900 mAhr "slim line" Li-Ion battery, compared to the 1800-3500 mAhr batteries found in modern smart phones. It's not like there's a conspiracy to make them not last as long. They just do a fuckton more stuff, and also, battery chemistry has barely advanced since the 5110 days because physical sciences don't follow Moore's law.

This is a bit like complaining that you get better fuel economy out of a car than a helicopter. I mean, you do, but it's not like those two things are equally capable.


Oh yes I know it was specious reasoning, and I was being deliberately disingenuous in some regards (hence my comment about Snake and 40 text messages to indicate as such), however I have found myself on a few occasions really needing to use my phone as a phone, and the battery is on its arse before the end of the day because I happened to use it to play Hearthstone at lunch, and remembering wistfully the days when it was damn-near impossible to run a phone's battery down in a single day. (And it's all very well USB-C being able to manage a 7500% charge in 13.7 seconds or whatever, but it's not much use if you're underneath the floor in a data centre and you really just need to finish a call.)

I do wonder though if they'd invested as much time in battery technology as they had in cramming a 2560x1440 display into a fucking phone, if we'd have mobiles by now that didn't effectively brick themselves every 24 hours if you don't plug them into something.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 14:14 
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There's lots of research going on into battery technology, but the single least interesting result of a major breakthrough there would be better batteries for phones.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 14:17 
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My advice for conserving battery is to not use features of the phone that are battery-intensive, like gaming for example. Especially if you need it for work.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 14:21 
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Hearthly wrote:
do wonder though if they'd invested as much time in battery technology as they had in cramming a 2560x1440 display into a fucking phone, if we'd have mobiles by now that didn't effectively brick themselves every 24 hours if you don't plug them into something.

Are you under the impression the world only contains one type of scientist and they all work on the same thing at the same time? This isn't Civilization.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 14:23 
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Trooper wrote:
Wouldn't it be cool if you could just put your phone down on a pad or something and it charged without needing to plug it in.
They should totally put that in a phone.

Troops!


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 14:27 
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LewieP wrote:
I ended up going for a different phone, but if you care that much about battery life, get this:
http://www.dx.com/p/lenovo-p1-5-5-fhd-a ... nfc-408171

5000mah! Blimey


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:22 
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Hearthly wrote:
And it's all very well USB-C being able to manage a 7500% charge in 13.7 seconds or whatever, but it's not much use if you're underneath the floor in a data centre and you really just need to finish a call.


http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2014/11/1 ... sers-time/

Also just for info the fast charge capability isn't a USB type C thing, my Nexus 6 has it and that's plain old micro USB.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:31 
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Also also, having spent a few minutes actually looking at wireless charging just there, the apparent max output for the QI standard is only 1 amp; even the slowest charger plug I've got is 1.5 amp. I genuinely think it's mad that you'd choose the so-called convenience of 'putting something on top of something else' over 'plugging something into something else' when it means adding on such a lot of charge time at even the most basic level.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:36 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
do wonder though if they'd invested as much time in battery technology as they had in cramming a 2560x1440 display into a fucking phone, if we'd have mobiles by now that didn't effectively brick themselves every 24 hours if you don't plug them into something.

Are you under the impression the world only contains one type of scientist and they all work on the same thing at the same time? This isn't Civilization.

Yeah, but it is clear from the development progress that they are prioritising the upgrade of screens over increases in battery life. There really is no need for that spec of screen in something that small, and a lower spec screen would lead to greater battery life. And I do wonder how much of that dev pathway is consumer led and how much is leading the consumer.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:41 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
Yeah, but it is clear from the development progress that they are prioritising the upgrade of screens over increases in battery life. There really is no need for that spec of screen in something that small, and a lower spec screen would lead to greater battery life. And I do wonder how much of that dev pathway is consumer led and how much is leading the consumer.

You don't have to buy that particular phone. There are plenty with low-res screens and better battery life. Perhaps it's up to the consumer to pick the best product for their needs? You don't buy a Ferrari and complain about the fuel consumption, unless you're an idiot.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:44 
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Sone don't have cd players.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:45 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
do wonder though if they'd invested as much time in battery technology as they had in cramming a 2560x1440 display into a fucking phone, if we'd have mobiles by now that didn't effectively brick themselves every 24 hours if you don't plug them into something.

Are you under the impression the world only contains one type of scientist and they all work on the same thing at the same time? This isn't Civilization.

Yeah, but it is clear from the development progress that they are prioritising the upgrade of screens over increases in battery life. There really is no need for that spec of screen in something that small, and a lower spec screen would lead to greater battery life. And I do wonder how much of that dev pathway is consumer led and how much is leading the consumer.
The phone industry isn't going to be leading battery research, though. The current batteries are ok for the most part, most people are fine with just plugging them in when needed. Compared to electric cars where range, expense and charge times are limiting sales. Or electric aircraft where they're basically prohibitively rubbish.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:48 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
do wonder though if they'd invested as much time in battery technology as they had in cramming a 2560x1440 display into a fucking phone, if we'd have mobiles by now that didn't effectively brick themselves every 24 hours if you don't plug them into something.

Are you under the impression the world only contains one type of scientist and they all work on the same thing at the same time? This isn't Civilization.

Yeah, but it is clear from the development progress that they are prioritising the upgrade of screens over increases in battery life.


I think you're on iffy ground trying to draw that conclusion; there could be any number of engineering/physics based reasons why one technology branch appears to be moving forward quicker than the other. Not least because the first company to come out with a phone battery that genuinely lasts for a lot longer than their competitors is going to be drowning in money and there's no way they don't know that.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 16:08 
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Bamba wrote:
Also also, having spent a few minutes actually looking at wireless charging just there, the apparent max output for the QI standard is only 1 amp; even the slowest charger plug I've got is 1.5 amp.

Higher inefficiency losses in a wireless charger, also. Less of that 1 amp makes it into your phone's battery. It's a nice feature to have (I have several wireless chargers and several wirelessly changing devices) but I don't miss it on the 6P at all; nor would I change its lovely metal chassis to get Qi.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 16:46 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Also also, having spent a few minutes actually looking at wireless charging just there, the apparent max output for the QI standard is only 1 amp; even the slowest charger plug I've got is 1.5 amp.

Higher inefficiency losses in a wireless charger, also. Less of that 1 amp makes it into your phone's battery. It's a nice feature to have (I have several wireless chargers and several wirelessly changing devices) but I don't miss it on the 6P at all; nor would I change its lovely metal chassis to get Qi.


Having owned it for a year now I've genuinely only just realised that N6 even does Qi, which should give you some idea of the level of my interest. Granted, if it could compete with wired chargers I'd probably pick one up because why the hell not but now I see it doesn't at all I'm content not to even have known all this time.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 16:55 
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But the time taken to charge discrepancy can be a total non-issue, as it is in my case where I have two wireless chargers, one at home and one at work - and if not in use or out and about with me, my phone is sat on top of one of them. (Or when I'm in bed, as I don't have a wireless charge pad in the bedroom, but it only loses about 10% charge overnight anyway.)

If I really need to charge the phone quicker than wireless can manage, I plug it into a micro-USB cable powered from a wall socket. Something that I basically need to do, erm, never, now I come to think about it.

For me wireless charging has been one of those things that's really impressed me as a tech, it's something that I find genuinely useful and convenient, to the extent that I can't really see myself taking a backwards step with my next phone and losing wireless charging. 'Faster charging with a wire' is still shitter than 'slow wireless charging' in my book.

Horses for courses and all that.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 16:56 
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Wireless charging is like wireless internet. Convenient and it'll do in a pinch, but you wouldn't want to use it for anything important.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 17:10 
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Future Warrior wrote:
Wireless charging is like wireless internet. Convenient and it'll do in a pinch, but you wouldn't want to use it for anything important.


You're not comparing apples with apples there. The problem with wireless internet is maintaining a consistent data stream across a distance with shit like walls and floors and interference getting in the way.

With wireless charging it's just, when you get right down to it, a different 'connector' on the end of the wire.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 17:24 
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Hearthly wrote:
Horses for courses and all that.


Well, indeed. None of your arguments for wireless and against turbo-charging make any sense to me at all, but there's no point trying to pick them apart because I'd just be using my own use pattern which would be an equally uncompelling argument to you. I will say that if you're going to base you choice of next phone on whether it does wireless charging or not then I think you'll struggle because it does seem like the manufacturers are moving away from it, but we'll see. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 17:28 
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It's not wireless anyway as it has a cable from the wall to the pad. So it's a con.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 17:35 
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Future Warrior wrote:
It's not wireless anyway as it has a cable from the wall to the pad. So it's a con.

See also: wifi. And mobile phones!

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 17:36 
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Future Warrior wrote:
It's not wireless anyway as it has a cable from the wall to the pad. So it's a con.


Knowing nothing about wireless charging g, tbis has caused me some measure of relief. I imagined arcs of power cracking through the room.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 17:38 
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Hearthly wrote:
'Faster charging with a wire' is still shitter than 'slow wireless charging' in my book.

Faster charging with a wire and a high quality slim metal chassis.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 17:50 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
'Faster charging with a wire' is still shitter than 'slow wireless charging' in my book.

Faster charging with a wire and a fragile slim metal chassis.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 17:59 
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Grim... wrote:
Future Warrior wrote:
It's not wireless anyway as it has a cable from the wall to the pad. So it's a con.

See also: wifi. And mobile phones!


Right? Having to hold my tablet against the side of my router just to get the internet is ridiculous. And don't get me started on having to tramp up a hill to the nearest antennae every time I want to send a text message.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 0:07 
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Just ordered an Nvidia Shield K1 tablet, which appears to be a re-release of the original Shield with some things removed and a lower price, but still very good hardware.

Total cost for the tablet, a charger and cable (it's totally stripped down so you don't even get a charger or cable in the box), and a 64GB MicroSD card was £177 - wouldn't have bothered but I'm over in the UK in January and I must take Hearthstone with me, also some films and stuff (hence the MicroSD card), as I'll be in hotels and airports for a chunk of time. (I fucking hate hotels and airports. I fucking hate leaving the Isle of Man, in fact.)

Even if you're not interested in all the Nvidia gaming stuff the headline facts are a very capable CPU/GPU, a decent 1920x1200 screen, good speakers, and cheaply expandable via MicroSD cards.

It benches very close to an iPad Air2/iPhone 6 - so the gubbins of the thing are fine.

http://www.ebuyer.com/727810-nvidia-shi ... 1-2500-500


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:21 
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I looked at that when it first came out but it's got an eight inch screen so thhhrrrppp.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:21 
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Is that one of the Nvidia android devices that randomly sets on fire, or one of the ones that doesn't?


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:51 
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LewieP wrote:
Is that one of the Nvidia android devices that randomly sets on fire, or one of the ones that doesn't?


This is the revised edition which, handily, doesn't set on fire.

@Bamba - I think I can get on with an eight inch screen, I've had a play with a couple of iPad Minis and found them to be fine.

Ultimately I'm after something I can take across for a single trip to the UK, it probably won't get used a massive amount apart from that, so I don't want to go nuts price-wise. Besides which, in terms of CPU/GPU performance, it really is up there with the highest cost premium tablets, which is pretty impressive for a £150 tablet. Especially one that doesn't spontaneously combust any more.

It's also running pretty much stock Android Lollipop 5.1.1, (the more stock the better IMO), with an upgrade to Marshmallow in the pipeline for Jan/Feb 2016.

It should be just the job I think, I've read and watched plenty of reviews and they all seem pretty positive.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 20:33 
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SHIELD GET!

Really nice tablet, and I won't qualify that with 'for £150....', it's just a really nice tablet full stop.

Yeah the packaging is quite basic (no Apple unboxing loveliness here), and it's got quite a plasticy feel in the hand, but not in a cheap sort of way - it feels well put together.

However the main thing is how it works. The eight inch screen is bright and colourful, and has a resolution of 1920x1200 which is pretty much at the limits of what my eyes can make out in terms of individual pixels so I can get by with it not quite being 'retina DPI'. (Although considering the slightly smaller screen it's probably not far off.)

The speakers are of a reasonable quality, delivering decent sound and music considering the form factor.

I'm signed into it with my Google account so it's synced everything up as these Google devices do, which is all very nice.

I'm not going to put much on it, but Hearthstone is on there and it runs at least as well as it does on Mrs Hearthly's iPad Air, which is to say not as lovely and smooth as it does on PC, but entirely playable. The eight inch screen didn't cause me any issues versus the iPad Air's larger screen when it came to playing out complex moves in a short space of time.

Obviously VLC has gone on there and the 64GB MicroSD card has been installed, gave it a test play on a couple of films and it handles 1080p content perfectly. (VLC for Android is free and awesome, by the way.)

The only shitter is the charger I bought for it is limited to 1A (the official Nvidia charger for the device (which it think does 2A or 2.5A) is out of stock everywhere), and I'd be lying if I said it was enthusiastically pumping up the juice levels at a rapid rate of knots, but it does charge it.

Battery life I can't comment on yet, I'll give it an extended Hearthstone session at some point and see how the battery lasts.

The Android Lollipop install on there is indeed almost totally vanilla, just a couple of Nvidia apps on there, but nothing that changes the look and feel of the OS itself (unlike Samsung's abominations, for example), and on the bigger screen there's bags of room for icons and widgets, an extra column and rows compared to my Nexus 5 (I doubt I'll need more than a single screen's worth on the Shield).

I have fired up the Nvidia apps and may explore them in due course, I believe I can stream games to it from my PC or something but I have no idea why I'd want to do that. I may have a go at it just to go 'Cooooo' at the tech of it all.

So yeah, current status is very happy with it, should do the job perfectly for my trip across.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 20:38 
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Joined: 25th Jul, 2010
Posts: 11128
Look nice, but it doesn't do wireless charging. That's just such a step backwards.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 20:59 
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Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13381
Bamba wrote:
Look nice, but it doesn't do wireless charging. That's just such a step backwards.


That would be quite nice, but doesn't fit in with my budget price point, even if I bought a tablet with wireless charging (which would cost more) I'd then be down at 500mA which is even slower than plugging it into the 1A charger, unless I spent more again on higher powered wireless chargers that take power from the mains. (My current wireless chargers just take power from USB on my work and home PCs.)

On balance I am content with having to plug my Shield in to charge it. Plus a tablet isn't like a phone in that you need it to be ALWAYS ON AND AVAILABLE, it's no biggy just to plug it in and leave it for a few hours to charge up.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 21:05 
SupaMod
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Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
I've got a 10" Samsung Tablet. It's very nice (and was super-nice when it was new).

I took it out of my bag before I went to Cotta6e, to make sure it didn't get left behind or broken in a drunken stupor.

I now have no idea where it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Android
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 21:16 
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Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13381
Good stories man.


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