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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:48 
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The lack of depth in the first Star Trek reboot film was quite a shock after the deep intellectual stuff in Star Trek Nemesis. Oh no, wait, the other thing. And aslo I suspect you're forgetting just how dire the Star Trek: The Motion Picture was.


(Holy shit, is that Tom Hardy in Nemesis? It is!)

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:50 
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The reboot movies are so forgettable that I can only remember there being 2 of them and I've watched all 3.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:58 
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Grim... wrote:
The lack of depth in the first Star Trek reboot film was quite a shock after the deep intellectual stuff in Star Trek Nemesis. Oh no, wait, the other thing. And aslo I suspect you're forgetting just how dire the Star Trek: The Motion Picture was.


(Holy shit, is that Tom Hardy in Nemesis? It is!)


Actually, I reckon Star Trek: The Motion Picture was nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be (IMO); it had a good, genuine Trek storyline to it and at least it took itself seriously, unlike this fluffy kid-fodder. I'm not saying it was great or anything, but not a bad first attempt (and you know, it's really, really old, 1970s stuff).

Star Trek Nemesis was indeed shit (but STILL not as bad as Darkness), but the original crew were pretty fucking ancient by then. You don't judge an entire film franchise by the last really shit one of the series though, man.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:00 
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Satsuma wrote:
The reboot movies are so forgettable that I can only remember there being 2 of them and I've watched all 3.


Exactly. I had to remind myself too; 2 and 3 just merge into one pool of absolute shitness and disappointment in my recollection. :(

I give them a cumulative score of 004.2 out of 1000 :D

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:00 
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Grim... wrote:
The lack of depth in the first Star Trek reboot film was quite a shock after the deep intellectual stuff in Star Trek Nemesis. Oh no, wait, the other thing. And aslo I suspect you're forgetting just how dire the Star Trek: The Motion Picture was.


(Holy shit, is that Tom Hardy in Nemesis? It is!)

I don't think TMP is that bad, but I am mostly comparing 2009 to Trek as a whole. I didn't expect them to do a big flashy hollywood modern take on Trek without pushing the balance more towards pulpy than intellectual (and imo the best of Trek is when they've balanced both of those), but I didn't expect them to go quite so far in that direction, and drop the ball on so many (imo) crucial elements.

If they do reboot TNG, Tom Hardy would be one of the better choices to play Picard. Along with Corey Stoll, Stanley Tucci, Mark Strong and obv Jason Statham.

Edit: Or James McAvoy.

Edit2: and it really is a shame that there was never a DS9 movie. I bet they could have done a great one.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:34 
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EvilTrousers

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For the extra nerdy among you Chaos on the Bridge is available on Netflix which tells the story of how TNG came together and how much of a lunatic Maurice Hurley, the showrunner for the first two seasons, was.

It's pretty interesting and tells you a fair bit about the behind the scenes politics and what's involved getting something as iconic as Star Trek off the ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:38 
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Rebooting TNG would be sacrilege, but if they did, it'd have to be McAvoy to continue the trend.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:47 
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SavyGamer

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Oscar Isaac as Riker.
Rami Malek as Data.
Brienne of Tarth as Tasha Yarr.
Chris O'Dowd as O'Brian.


John de Lancie would still play Q.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:53 
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Cavey wrote:
Star Trek Nemesis was indeed shit (but STILL not as bad as Darkness), but the original crew were pretty fucking ancient by then

They weren't in it -it was the one where Picard meets his clone.

Cavey wrote:
You don't judge an entire film franchise by the last really shit one of the series though, man.

I'm not. You're saying the Trek Reboot has dumbed the series down, I'm saying it's only as dumb as the one before it.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:18 
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Grim... wrote:
They weren't in it -it was the one where Picard meets his clone.


Ah right, my bad - it's TNG (and yes, it's well shit). Well it was 15-odd years ago now and pretty fucking forgettable tbh.

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Cavey wrote:
You don't judge an entire film franchise by the last really shit one of the series though, man.

I'm not. You're saying the Trek Reboot has dumbed the series down, I'm saying it's only as dumb as the one before it.


But that's a bit silly, really; it's clearly generally dumbed down relative to much of the rest of the material that preceded it, i.e. a whole bunch of films and TV. I'm not focusing/obsessing over one specific film/outrider, I'm looking at the big picture here (no pun intended).

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 14:55 
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because of netflix husband and I have now rewatched 7 seasons of TNG and 7 seasons of DS9, thanks for the tip Trousers I will find the documentary.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 22:34 
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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 20:55 
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What do people think of Star Trek Discovery then?

I've really liked it so far, good plot and episodes look to follow each other a bit more unlike the other TV shows that that had a lot of self-contained ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 22:51 
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Feels like it hasn't really settled into a formula yet but maybe that means it's not really going to. I think I like that.

Interesting theory I heard:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
There's been plenty of allusions to the mirror universe (and Jonathan Frakes has even said he's directing a mirror universe episode), it could be that the Discovery is in the mirror universe (and perhaps the entire show so far has been), or one or more characters have crossed over from there. Some of Lorca's behaviour would make sense if he was a mirror version of him.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 23:51 
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It's a load of old shit federation- and tech-wise, and so were the first couple of.episodes as a whole.

It's got better.

I think it helps they've got a Wash-a-like in.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:37 
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LewieP wrote:
Feels like it hasn't really settled into a formula yet but maybe that means it's not really going to. I think I like that.

Interesting theory I heard:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
There's been plenty of allusions to the mirror universe (and Jonathan Frakes has even said he's directing a mirror universe episode), it could be that the Discovery is in the mirror universe (and perhaps the entire show so far has been), or one or more characters have crossed over from there. Some of Lorca's behaviour would make sense if he was a mirror version of him.


That would make sense

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
The spore drive is a massive piece of tech, Voyager would have been a one episode show if they had had this!

I was wondering how they were going to deal with having this long before the earlier show timelines, but guess the mirror universe can deal with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:01 
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BikNorton wrote:
It's a load of old shit federation- and tech-wise, and so were the first couple of.episodes as a whole.

It's got better.

I think it helps they've got a Wash-a-like in.


I mean, he's uncannily Tudyk-esque.

I have enjoyed all of the first four episodes. Will watch the next when I have a chance (and then read the spoilers).

I also like Alien Niles Crane.

But they're all doomed anyway, right? Or at least the major tech thing is.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:40 
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I think I will re-subscribe to netflix

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 23:33 
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I watched about half hour of the first episode. It wasn't great. Riverdale is better, bit has fewer asteroids.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:26 
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MaliA wrote:
I watched about half hour of the first episode. It wasn't great. Riverdale is better, bit has fewer asteroids.

viewtopic.php?style=26&f=3&t=2098&p=966442&hilit=Star+trek#p966442


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 22:10 
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I am really, really enjoying this now.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
So, Lorca is maybe from the mirror universe? Or something is up with him. I imagine that we'll get an episode going over what happened to his last ship, where I'm betting there's an original chap who died. Maybe. I dunno.

And that's security chief lad is DEFINITELY BAD NEWS. Could he be the Klingon chap in disguise?

Spock! Enterprise! Sarek! Lots of fun with all that.

Science guy is going absolutely mad! Loved watching Lorca's reaction to his insanity.

I like how there are lots of things going on, and I think the actors are doing a bang up job, especially Lorca.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 22:48 
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Cavey wrote:
Grim... wrote:
The lack of depth in the first Star Trek reboot film was quite a shock after the deep intellectual stuff in Star Trek Nemesis. Oh no, wait, the other thing. And aslo I suspect you're forgetting just how dire the Star Trek: The Motion Picture was.


(Holy shit, is that Tom Hardy in Nemesis? It is!)


Actually, I reckon Star Trek: The Motion Picture was nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be (IMO); it had a good, genuine Trek storyline to it and at least it took itself seriously, unlike this fluffy kid-fodder. I'm not saying it was great or anything, but not a bad first attempt (and you know, it's really, really old, 1970s stuff).

Star Trek Nemesis was indeed shit (but STILL not as bad as Darkness), but the original crew were pretty fucking ancient by then. You don't judge an entire film franchise by the last really shit one of the series though, man.


Shocking kinda agree with Cavey time again.

The first Trek movie, even though relentlessly slow moving, has enough awe and spectacle about it to rescue the film. It feels pretty epic in a way. I also like how it's not about blowing stuff up, which is in keeping with the largely lovely original Trek movies.

The (Slow) Motion Picture: Investigate dangerous new energy cloud. Discover it's a vast spaceship. Discover vast spaceship is a machine intelligence. Discover odd story of origin of particular machine intelligence and its goals. Reason with it and catalogue new life form.

The Wrath of Khan: Neglect on the part of Captain Kirk results in the death of Khan's wife, who swears vengeance and steals Genesis, a device that can give life to a planet - and take it away. Kirk must face his own mortality, his relative innocence and the loss of his closest friend in a thrilling space-nautical adventure that has ensigns running about pulling gratings covers off torpedo tubes whilst James Horner swashbuckles the soundtrack, because Star Trek's DNA is Horatio Hornblower, friendo! A film where the exciting climax is simply trying to survive the dying hate of an already defeated enemy.

The Search for Spock: Committing mutiny, Spock's friends steal a ship and head to Genesis to retrieve his body - all on the word of McCoy who has his spirit fused with his own. Spock endures a painful rebirth, Kirk loses his only son and the Enterprise to the Klingons and the Vulcan race is revealed to be stranger, magical and more powerful than their wry logic based society hitherto indicated. The film ends with all the friends reuniting, but with a sense of loss also.

The Voyage Home: A giant probe approaches Earth and attempts a fearsome energy based communication with an extinct oceanic life form, gradually vaporising Earth's oceans and knocking out all power to electrical systems within the immediate Sol system. The band of contrite mutineers, on the way back to Earth in a captured Klingon Bird of Prey attempt time-travel back to early 80's San Francisco in an effort to retrieve a couple of humpback whales to resolve the problem. A gripping comedy adventure ensues as the crew encounter culture-shock, get in trouble with the US military, terrify a whaling crew, and seemingly break the neck of a impolite punk earning the applause of fellow passengers on the 20th century mass transit system. Everyone hugs at the end and Kirk gets his ship back.

The Final Frontier: Terrible film but actually an excellent premise. "What would God want with a starship?" Tapping into fears of all the cults cropping up in the 80's, Star Trek V has a pretty strong story where Spock's brother, a charismatic cult leader with seemingly the power to take away pain, takes over the Enterprise and heads off to find God in unexplored territory. Kirk must find a way to win back his ship from the brainwashed crew, and stop whatever strange entity is behind it all.

The Undiscovered Country: Praxis explodes and the Klingon empire has only twenty years left to live! A cataclysmic industrial catastrophe on a Klingon mining-moon wrecks their war economy and the system's ecology and forces a mass evacuation within Klingon space. Only the federation can help their warlike enemies and peace must be forged. Kirk, one of the great warriors of the Federation, is chosen as an ambassador, being a man the Klingons would grudgingly respect. Overtures of peace are sabotaged however as elements within the Federation and the Klingon Empire strike up their own secret alliance to ensure that the war goes on. A parable of Chernobyl and the breakup of the Soviet Union, Star Trek VI also finds time to fit in an Agatha Christie mystery and a prison-break movie.


Star Trek - Nemesis: A villain vows revenge for past wrongs and builds a super-weapon to destroy Federation.

Star Trek Reboot: A villain vows revenge for past wrongs and builds a super-weapon to destroy the Federation.

Star Trek Into Darkness: A villain vows revenge for past wrongs and builds a super-ship to take over Federation.

Star Trek Beyond: A villain vows revenge for past wrongs and works with an alien super weapon to destroy the Federation.


Of the first three TNG movies, First Contact is obviously the best but sets up a worrying precedent for subsequent action-orientated Trek. Generations has some good ideas but is generally cringeworthy. I have a fondness for Insurrection as there's a good story at the heart of it, and some interesting 'needs of the many vs the few' conundrums and soul-searching. It's just ultimately let down by the blandness of colony they're trying to save, and a desperately rote conclusion. Nemesis is fucking awful and the worst Trek movie to date, even worse than Into Darkness, which is insultingly awful in a way that gradually reveals itself. I actually quite enjoyed Beyond, but it's part of the depressing conclusion to keep doing the same fucking plot again and again.

Oh well, at least Star Wars keeps it fresh with new OH NO!

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 0:53 
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ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
yeah there's a couple of hints that new security guy is the albino Klingon, or at least it's the same actor. They're credited as two different people, and the Klingon actor doesn't actually exist. One of the producers made a reference to Jekyll and Hyde with him, which works on two levels. One is dual personalities, but also the security guy played Jekyll/Hyde in penny dreadful.

Wouldn't be the first time Trek uses one actor for two characters though.

Stamets could be mirror Stamets too, given that mirror thing that happened.

Cool nod: the mushroom killer in Hannibal, also by Bryan Fuller was called Stametts, and Stamets in STD is using mushrooms too


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:44 
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MaliA wrote:
I watched about half hour of the first episode. It wasn't great. Riverdale is better, bit has fewer asteroids.

Riverdale is being released an episode per week. I’m not so interested that I can remember what happens week to week so I’m going to have to wait until they’ve all aired so I can watch them all at once.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:48 
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LewieP wrote:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
yeah there's a couple of hints that new security guy is the albino Klingon, or at least it's the same actor. They're credited as two different people, and the Klingon actor doesn't actually exist. One of the producers made a reference to Jekyll and Hyde with him, which works on two levels. One is dual personalities, but also the security guy played Jekyll/Hyde in penny dreadful.

Wouldn't be the first time Trek uses one actor for two characters though.

Stamets could be mirror Stamets too, given that mirror thing that happened.

Cool nod: the mushroom killer in Hannibal, also by Bryan Fuller was called Stametts, and Stamets in STD is using mushrooms too


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Stamets

Also, slightly unfortunate abbreviation for the new Star Trek series. Apt from the episode I saw.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:53 
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Mimi wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I watched about half hour of the first episode. It wasn't great. Riverdale is better, bit has fewer asteroids.

Riverdale is being released an episode per week. I’m not so interested that I can remember what happens week to week so I’m going to have to wait until they’ve all aired so I can watch them all at once.


With Riverdale, the plot is incidental if it doesn't involve Cheryl.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:55 
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We're 4 episodes into Discovery and really enjoying it so far. It seems to have remembered to have a sense of humour in the more recent episodes which stops it being too po-faced, which I thought it was going to be at one point - especially those first scenes with all the exposition and forced humour.

The Klingon woman reminds me so much of Camille in Red Dwarf I keep getting distracted by it.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 15:02 
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I got weirded out when they did swearing though.

Didn't seem right.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 16:18 
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Curiosity wrote:
I got weirded out when they did swearing though.

Didn't seem right.

Another clue it's probably the mirror universe.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Trek
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 18:12 
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Mimi wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I watched about half hour of the first episode. It wasn't great. Riverdale is better, bit has fewer asteroids.

Riverdale is being released an episode per week. I’m not so interested that I can remember what happens week to week so I’m going to have to wait until they’ve all aired so I can watch them all at once.


We're saving them up to be able to plow through quickly as well.


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