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 Post subject: Re: Attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Pakistan
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 13:14 
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Sleepyhead

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To be honest, given the current overly-aggressive stance being taken by North Korea, for South Korea to then increase live fire exercises right on the border is absolute bloody lunacy, and appears to be trying to entice the North into starting a war.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 13:05 
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INFINITE POWAH

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So, looks like everyone's favourite Cold War Warrior, bear wrestler, topless combat-trouser-modeller, friend to Nigel Farage and general all round manly man may be the next best hope we have for a worldwide (or at least Europe-wide) conflagration the like of which has not been seen since the 40s. You’re all aware of the shenanigans (if one may call it that) in the Crimea, which managed to provoke the West into a frenzy of apathy, due to a combination of some deft “facts on the ground” created by the ever-canny Putin and the fact he sells us all our gas and we don’t want to piss him off.

The latest instalment, courtesy of Kern, is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26919928

We do have a treaty with Ukraine, so if they do get invaded properly, I can’t see us doing nothing about it. There will be enormous pressure from the Central and Eastern European NATO members for us to do something, so they are reassured that we’ll step in if they’re next. That or they may end up taking things into their own hands. I can’t see how we can sit back and do nothing at all if there is an actual, honest to goodness invasion. Then again, maybe the takeover of Ukraine will be another Sudentenland-esque approach which allows our fearless leaders to back down without looking like spineless cowards.

It's worth quoting my opening post here:

Quote:
Up until now, Russia had been our best bet for kicking off World War (huh!) 3. Now, however, the once great opponent who met our watery capitalist eyes over the Iron Curtain with a steely communist gaze is a broken shell of its former mass-tractor producing self. Its armed forces are barely functioning, for all the supposedly good kit they have knocking about, and they can barely pay the manpower that they still have. Moreover, if diplomatic push with their effete capitalist running dog foes comes to potential military shove it's entirely unlikely that Mother Russia would actually man up and break out the armoured divisions or the MIRVs. The majority of their wealth derives from selling us fuel, and there's a gravy train they can't afford to derail, for all of Putin's Cold War Warrior rehetoric.


Oh how wrong I was. Then again, a lot has changed in the last few years, and clearly Putin is muchly enboldened by the war-weariness of the main Western protagonists, the massive economic hold he has over Europe (and the scads of cash he's made out of us), and his cast iron position as, effectively, a popular dictator-for-life in Russia

Poor show Pakistan and North Korea, poor show. I had such great hopes for you both.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 13:46 
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Agree very much with all of this post.

Mr Kissyfur wrote:
We do have a treaty with Ukraine, so if they do get invaded properly, I can’t see us doing nothing about it. There will be enormous pressure from the Central and Eastern European NATO members for us to do something, so they are reassured that we’ll step in if they’re next. That or they may end up taking things into their own hands. I can’t see how we can sit back and do nothing at all if there is an actual, honest to goodness invasion. Then again, maybe the takeover of Ukraine will be another Sudentenland-esque approach which allows our fearless leaders to back down without looking like spineless cowards.


The main risk is that Putin won't quit while he's ahead. He's got Crimea, and could probably force Ukraine to negotiate away/accept the annexation of the eastern territories, but he has to feel that going for anything more, or the westward-looking Baltic states, would be diastrous. And at the moment, I think he's seeing just how far he can go.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 13:49 
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This article linked from that page seems pretty much on the money wrt his likely future plans:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26842065


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 16:36 
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I think any notion that Europe will (or can) do anything other than precisely fuck all about any of this (apart from stuff like sanctions and much empty words), is laughable, personally.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 16:56 
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Nonsense! Right now the various EU Heads of State are writing a *very* strongly worded letter. In the unlikely scenario that that isn't enough, they're willing to write *another letter*.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 16:58 
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Squirt wrote:
Nonsense! Right now the various EU Heads of State are writing a *very* strongly worded letter. In the unlikely scenario that that isn't enough, they're willing to write *another letter*.


:D

Yeah, I can see Putin and his massed armies and tanks quaking in their jackboots in terror at the very thought of a strongly worded letter from William Hague.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 16:59 
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Squirt wrote:
Nonsense! Right now the various EU Heads of State are meeting to decide whether to writeing a *very* strongly worded letter.


FEEX.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 17:06 
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I imagine that there is no chance that the EU will intervene militarily without US support, and without that the only tools they have are economic. However, the only thing that will really hurt Russia ( stopping their oil / gas exports ) will mess up our economies almost as much. So that just leaves those letters, and refusing to sell them champagne or decent scotch until they surrender.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 17:20 
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I don't know why I even bother writing this, because the tone of the posts above suggests I will be pissing in the wind, but here goes nothing.

EU+USA have seemingly been pouring billions into Ukraine over several years, finally staging a coup against a democratically elected government, putting neonazis in charge in its place.

From a Russian point of view, Putin is simply drawing a line in the sand against western neocolonialism. At least he is doing so openly, instead of using all the covert bullshit tactics employed by the west (I'm not saying he wouldn't use those if he could, mind you). Personally I am a rather terrified by the one sided coverage all this is given in the western media.

I am not suggesting "he" is right and "we" are wrong, but maybe things are a tad more complicated than him being the evil overlord - at the very least I think blaming Putin alone for things coming to this is just a wee bit naive.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 19:37 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Even if that were true, chap:

(a) whether or not Putin likes who's in charge in Ukraine gives him precisely fuck all right to invade the place; and
(b) whether or not he does have any justification for invading, that doesn't change the fact that he is an evil overlord. Stopped clocks and all that.

I'd also query whether the current government of Ukraine, the one that's going to have elections, is "neonazi" and is there as a result of neocolonialism or, indeed, anything that can be described as a "coup" (as opposed to "popular uprising after the existing government murdered tens of its own citizens"). I also wasn't aware that our grand evil Western plan was to put neonazis in charge on our own doorstep.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 19:49 
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Whether it was the plan or not, I couldn't say, but:
http://www.channel4.com/news/svoboda-mi ... -far-right
http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/27/contr ... overnment/


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 20:09 
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And instead of "staging", perhaps "setting the stage for" is a more appropriate choice of words, giving the benefit of doubt. Was it a coup or not? I suspect that depends entirely on which side you were on.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 20:19 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
whether or not Putin likes who's in charge in Ukraine gives him precisely fuck all right to invade the place

And I certainly never said he had any right. There's just no reason why he should care. And it's not like he's the first to invade a country because he didn't like who was in charge.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:18 
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I think whenever there's a major international crisis I don't quite understand, I'm going to rely on Newsround. Their background piece from last month is brilliant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/26257865


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:27 
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That was an excellent write-up. Newsround's ability to explain things well has been mentioned before.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:49 
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lasermink wrote:
I don't know why I even bother writing this, because the tone of the posts above suggests I will be pissing in the wind, but here goes nothing.

EU+USA have seemingly been pouring billions into Ukraine over several years, finally staging a coup against a democratically elected government, putting neonazis in charge in its place.

From a Russian point of view, Putin is simply drawing a line in the sand against western neocolonialism. At least he is doing so openly, instead of using all the covert bullshit tactics employed by the west (I'm not saying he wouldn't use those if he could, mind you). Personally I am a rather terrified by the one sided coverage all this is given in the western media.

I am not suggesting "he" is right and "we" are wrong, but maybe things are a tad more complicated than him being the evil overlord - at the very least I think blaming Putin alone for things coming to this is just a wee bit naive.

While I don't dispute what you have said here, I feel it is naive to consider that Putin has not influenced the Ukraine in a similar manner to the EU. He is influencing overtly now, but I think it is safe to say that he was influencing covertly beforehand.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 13:43 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
lasermink wrote:
I don't know why I even bother writing this, because the tone of the posts above suggests I will be pissing in the wind, but here goes nothing.

EU+USA have seemingly been pouring billions into Ukraine over several years, finally staging a coup against a democratically elected government, putting neonazis in charge in its place.

From a Russian point of view, Putin is simply drawing a line in the sand against western neocolonialism. At least he is doing so openly, instead of using all the covert bullshit tactics employed by the west (I'm not saying he wouldn't use those if he could, mind you). Personally I am a rather terrified by the one sided coverage all this is given in the western media.

I am not suggesting "he" is right and "we" are wrong, but maybe things are a tad more complicated than him being the evil overlord - at the very least I think blaming Putin alone for things coming to this is just a wee bit naive.

While I don't dispute what you have said here, I feel it is naive to consider that Putin has not influenced the Ukraine in a similar manner to the EU. He is influencing overtly now, but I think it is safe to say that he was influencing covertly beforehand.

Oh, certainly, one way or another. He (or Russia in more general terms) has obviously had lots of supporters there to act on his behalf.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 13:53 
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Possibly the overt vs covert note was another poor piece of wording on my behalf. Both sides have been pouring money into the country, and who's to say how it was spent and for what purpose. I was just trying to point out how all this looks to someone sitting in Moscow, senator McCain doing dealings with Svoboda and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 18:53 
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Why shouldn't we help install a government we're more friendly with?

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:48 
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I feel bad about my post, it was needlessly confrontational. Not really the way to try and enter into any sort of discussion. Apologies for any toes stepped on by my big, clumsy feet.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:49 
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lasermink wrote:
I feel bad about my post, it was needlessly confrontational. Not really the way to try and enter into any sort of discussion. Apologies for any toes stepped on by my big, clumsy feet.

You should feel ashamed.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:50 
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lasermink wrote:
I feel bad about my post, it was needlessly confrontational. Not really the way to try and enter into any sort of discussion. Apologies for any toes stepped on by my big, clumsy feet.

I think it is this post that is wrong! :P


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:51 
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lasermink wrote:
I feel bad about my post, it was needlessly confrontational. Not really the way to try and enter into any sort of discussion. Apologies for any toes stepped on by my big, clumsy feet.

Whatever, Chamberlain.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 13:37 
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markg wrote:
lasermink wrote:
I feel bad about my post, it was needlessly confrontational. Not really the way to try and enter into any sort of discussion. Apologies for any toes stepped on by my big, clumsy feet.

Whatever, Chamberlain.


:DD

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 18:35 
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Looks like Putin is happy with his conquest is trying to calm things down, for now at least.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27072351

But I can't help feeling that things might flare up again. Still, Prince George, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 19:44 
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I still don't know what to make of Putin. I don't understand what his politics are about. I don't like the idea of any individual being so powerful as he is, though. It never seems to end well.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:30 
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so by 'de-escalation' they mean that putin gets away with stealing the crimea unpunished, he just has to.promise not to steal any more bits of countries? Which was, as I understand it, oretty much how it worked already?

I'm sure he'll be good.for his word, I mean it's not like he tried to steal.Georgia the other year is it?


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:31 
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Letting Putin take the Crimea is hardly likely to endear the Ukrainians to the West either.
I wonder if Putin is entering the final stages of his reign, and trying to make for himself a legacy as well as going slightly mad as he ages and his mental powers fade.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:36 
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You are so going to get poloniumed.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:55 
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I am not reassured. I am getting 'Peace for our time' vibes about all this.

I went to Google Maps yesterday to see how it demarks Crimea. I wondered how long it would take before this Russian land-grab is recognised officially by anyone. The result is an impressive half-measure; the border of Crimea is a dashed line with no indication whether it's considered Ukraine or Russia.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:18 
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Putin's suggesting that unofficial referendums shouldn't go ahead
( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... -postponed ).

So, having made this annoucement, what's the betting that it goes ahead anyway, and when the result goes Russia's way Putin says, 'well, now you've said you want to join us, can't argue with that' then moves the tanks in?


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:14 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
I am not reassured. I am getting 'Peace for our time' vibes about all this.

I went to Google Maps yesterday to see how it demarks Crimea. I wondered how long it would take before this Russian land-grab is recognised officially by anyone. The result is an impressive half-measure; the border of Crimea is a dashed line with no indication whether it's considered Ukraine or Russia.



I don't know if you're referring to this or not, but google maps changes the borders based on your locale.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 15:46 
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So, NATO have said that Russia have clearly invaded, and Ukraine are considering joining the alliance. Putin, meanwhile, denies any involvement, as usual.

BBC link.

Feels still too calm here, even with the ongoing crises in the Middle East.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 19:11 
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Nato and the others just sit and talk shit.

Plenty of country's including the UK have the appetite for War, problem is we don't have the money. Billions was pissed away in Iraq only to see a bigger bunch of nutters taking over

After 5 years of cuts, shit pay rises, tax increases, house prices, job losses etc The last thing the voters will stand for is Billions pissed away again fighting wars that are viewed as nothing to do with the UK.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:22 
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Appetite for war? I seriously doubt there's even 10% of the public who'd openly support another all out war.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:01 
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DavPaz wrote:
Appetite for war? I seriously doubt there's even 10% of the public who'd openly support another all out war.


Not with Russia, but I firmly believe that something should be done about ISIS.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:03 
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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:57 
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Torn between viewing the defence secretary's warning of Russian sabre-rattling against the Baltic states as either an honest admission that things are more out of control than they have previously let on, or a pre-election ploy to remind voters that they're better off trusting the Tories on defence matters.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:59 
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Kern wrote:
Torn between viewing the defence secretary's warning of Russian sabre-rattling against the Baltic states as either an honest admission that things are more out of control than they have previously let on, or a pre-election ploy to remind voters that they're better off trusting the Tories on defence matters.


It is becoming some cause for concern especially as Kernow has been buzzed by bombers today.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:07 
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Yeah, I read about that earlier - do you know if the sightings were confirmed?

EDIT: yes, but they weren't in UK airspace. A bit of willy-waving, do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:12 
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Mimi wrote:
Yeah, I read about that earlier - do you know if the sightings were confirmed?

EDIT: yes, but they weren't in UK airspace. A bit of willy-waving, do you think?


I am fairly sure it is a regular occurrence but only deemed newsworthy now.

I suppose worse case in the short term is a proxy war in the Baltic states, followed by booing at Eurovision. I heard somewhere Putin is very much of the old school and very distrustful of the West, viewing it still as the enemy. this is then reinforced by continuing sanctions. I am sure Kern knows more.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:18 
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MaliA wrote:
I am sure Kern knows more.


I'm very glad you think so.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:20 
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MaliA wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Yeah, I read about that earlier - do you know if the sightings were confirmed?

EDIT: yes, but they weren't in UK airspace. A bit of willy-waving, do you think?


I am fairly sure it is a regular occurrence but only deemed newsworthy now.

I suppose worse case in the short term is a proxy war in the Baltic states, followed by booing at Eurovision. I heard somewhere Putin is very much of the old school and very distrustful of the West, viewing it still as the enemy. this is then reinforced by continuing sanctions.


Aye. Testing response times is a pretty common technique. I doubt Putin would do anything that would risk a response from NATO, but he might try to see how far he can go.

Are the Russians entering the festival of western decadance this year, or was the bearded lady a step too far for them?


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:21 
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The House of Lords report (executive summary: 'we were caught with our pants down') is compelling reading. I keep on flipping to it whenever I get frustrated with Visio. From what I've read so far, gives a good explanation of how Russia and the west see themselves. PDF link.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 14:08 
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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:14 
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The way things seem to work these days, I fully expect the western media to launch a campaign painting Putin as a mad despot who is plotting to drop the big one, and the only way to prevent it being a preemptive strike.


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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:30 
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INFINITE POWAH

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I have a horrible feeling they wouldn't be far wrong, though.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 14:51 
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Why would the west want to kick off against Russia? It buys us nothing, not even good PR. Plus the risk of escalation to all out war is huge, and no sort of pre-emptive strike short of glassing half the continent and hoping they wouldn't notice in time to retaliate would achieve anything in terms of crippling the Russian army.

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 Post subject: Re: WW3 a go-go with topless Putin?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:38 
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Unfortunately, the general assessment of Putin's strategy is that he fears NATO, the EU, and the west are encircling and threatening Russia, and convincing bordering countries to look westwards rather than eastwards. The bear wants to be a great power again, and views any country aligning itself, or considering to align itself, with western institutions to be tantamount to being hostile.

Of course, from numerous games of 'Risk' we all know that any attempt to invade Russia is doomed to failure, unless you want to be holed up in the Antipodes.


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