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Spotify - Free music streaming thingy
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Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 17:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Well mine is 95% tracks off Chopley's Awesome Playlist, or tracks that have been on Chopley's Awesome Playlist.

The other 5% are duplicate artists, thus would not be permitted on Chopley's Awesome Playlist.

Seriously, it's that close that at first I thought it'd just randomly selected tracks from Chopley's Awesome Playlist, and added the title Your Time Capsule.

Author:  JBR [ Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Yep, pretty good for me, but much of it is by artists that are on my main playlist now, like Chopley.

Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Hit a total blank on Spotify last night with a band called 'TREES', it's not that they don't have the licensing for them, Spotify just doesn't seem to know they ever existed.

They were an English folk rock band that only existed for three years between 1970-1973, and released a grand total of two albums.

My dad had one of the albums on vinyl and I listened to it when I was a child, and really liked it. Unfortunately it eventually became so scratched as to be unlistenable, and I made a mental note I'd try and buy it one day, but as the years passed I never saw the album in any record stores anywhere. (I later found out that they hadn't been particularly commercial successful, and vinyl for the albums was never produced in any great numbers.)

Fast forward to the INTERNET AGE and I was able to get hold of both of their albums in the late 90s on CD, from memory there was a CD run of them in 1996. (In fact, checking Amazon it looks like they got another run in 2008.) Then about 13 years ago I ripped our CD collection to MP3 (a task which took weeks....) so I've had them readily available as MP3s since then.

Shame I can't add a track of theirs to Chopley's Awesome Playlist on Spotify though.

Anyway, I'd very much recommend TREES, their two albums are called THE GARDEN OF JANE DELAWNEY and ON THE SHORE.

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Author:  Curiosity [ Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

You can add your own music to your own Spotify collection. Just do that; there are loads of bands with nothing on there.

Author:  Hearthly [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/0 ... y-article/

Removed from Huff Post for reasons unknown, reproduced in full at the link above.

Quote:
“You keep using that word, ‘product.’ I’m not trying to be difficult, I’m really asking you: what do you think your product is?”

The executive was surprised. He stared at me blankly and said, “What do you mean? Our product is Spotify.”

There it was. It was a shocking admission to me, in earshot of everyone, and one he obviously didn’t think was an admission at all.

“No no… sorry,” I said, shaking my head in disbelief. “Your product isn’t ‘Spotify.’” He continued to stare at me. I said, “Sir, your product is music.” The emboldened musicians standing around us started laughing. The exec smiled and backed away, “Well okay, if you’re going to be like that.”

“Wait,” I said, “Listen, it’s music. Your product is music. The reason I know that is because if we went out into the street right now and asked a thousand people what Starbucks’ ‘product’ is, they’d all say coffee. Not a single person would say ‘Starbucks’ product is Starbucks.’ Right?”

His smile faded.

“And by the way,” I added, “Stop calling your subscribers ‘users.’ They’re not ‘users,’ they’re listeners––our listeners in fact. You’re the ‘user.’ You’re using our music to monetize our listeners for your profit.”

He looked at me as if I’d just shot Santa Claus in the face.

“No, man! You’re wrong!” He was sweating now, and the dozen or so musicians who’d gathered around us began heckling him. He shouted, “Spotify is our product! You don’t get it at all!” He stormed off.

Author:  Bamba [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

That article does seem like bullshit. The author himself makes the point that Nextflix is different from Spotify because Netflix actually makes content; then goes on to be incredulous that a Spotify exec doesn't think their product is the music they don't make? Same with his Starbucks comparison, Starbucks does actually make and sell coffee so of course people think their product is coffee; that's because it actually is. He might well be making good points about Spotify's attitude and business model but it's all couched in hair-splitting and inconsistent bullshit.

Author:  JBR [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 13:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Plus some sort of balance would say "Hang on, I got that wrong, got all hung up on the branding - our product is the software that brings music to people, and that suggests what people might want to listen, and pays the tiny royalties" and etc. Nice grandstanding, and he still has a point, but not making it fairer is... oversimplification.

Author:  GazChap [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 13:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

He does have a point, though, in that without the music Spotify would literally be nothing. If everyone suddenly pulled all of their content from Netflix, they'd at least have all of their own content to stream (although the service would probably still crumble, of course)

If they're not paying the artists their dues, or are taking the piss, then they run the risk of exactly that happening.

Author:  Bamba [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 13:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

GazChap wrote:
He does have a point, though, in that without the music Spotify would literally be nothing.


That is true, but is anyone arguing otherwise?

Author:  GazChap [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 13:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Well, apparently, Spotify are.

Author:  Bamba [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 13:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

GazChap wrote:
Well, apparently, Spotify are.


Someone from Spotify has said that if they had no music on their service they'd be totally fine?

Author:  GazChap [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 13:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

No, but by arguing that Spotify is the product (which I'm reading as "the reason that people use Spotify") that is basically what he's saying.

By my reading (which could be entirely bollocks, of course) the article writer's point is that Spotify's execs are under the impression that people use Spotify because it's Spotify, and I imagine there's an element of "the artists should be glad to be on Spotify!" attached to that too.

Author:  Bamba [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 14:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

GazChap wrote:
No, but by arguing that Spotify is the product (which I'm reading as "the reason that people use Spotify") that is basically what he's saying.

By my reading (which could be entirely bollocks, of course) the article writer's point is that Spotify's execs are under the impression that people use Spotify because it's Spotify, and I imagine there's an element of "the artists should be glad to be on Spotify!" attached to that too.


I believe that is what the author's trying to argue, I just don't think anyone is actually saying that. Or, at least, not in that way he's claiming it. Given that there shitloads of alternatives (Google Music, Apple Music, Amazon Music, Tidal, etc) it's fair to claim Spotify users are on there because they prefer it i.e. "people use Spotify because it's Spotify". It's implicit though that the service only exists because it has content to sell (or rent out in this case) and no one needs anyone to say that--aside from the author apparently--because we're not idiots who need the obvious stated. Shitloads of companies and services exist only, or mainly, to shift third party products, no one needs to be standing around pointing that out as if it was some great revelation. The entire article reads like the most horrendous mash-up of r/IamVerySmart and r/ThatHappened; just painful to read and utterly pointless.

Note that none of what I'm saying here is a comment on the amount of money Spotify pays out to artists as that might well be awful and need revisiting. That entire point though could be, and indeed was, made in a single sentence without all the self-aggrandising bullshit and idiotic comparisons attached to it.

Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 14:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Spotify doesn't pay artists, it pays labels - and it negotiates with each one, so there's no "this is how much they pay per stream".

However, it almost certainly isn't very much.

Author:  Curiosity [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 14:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Whilst there isn’t a set figure, they don’t vary by that much from what I have heard (well, they do in percentage terms but not in real cash terms so you could argue either way).

Spotify and its ilk are set up to benefit the consumers at the expense of the average artist. There are exceptions who break out because of these platforms, of course, but on the whole the amount of money most acts make from sales+streams is way down. I do feel kind of bad about it, but I do go to a lot of live shows to try to support the smaller acts I care about.

Author:  GazChap [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 15:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Bamba wrote:
That entire point though could be, and indeed was, made in a single sentence without all the self-aggrandising bullshit and idiotic comparisons attached to it.

Agreed.

Author:  RuySan [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Curiosity wrote:
Whilst there isn’t a set figure, they don’t vary by that much from what I have heard (well, they do in percentage terms but not in real cash terms so you could argue either way).

Spotify and its ilk are set up to benefit the consumers at the expense of the average artist. There are exceptions who break out because of these platforms, of course, but on the whole the amount of money most acts make from sales+streams is way down. I do feel kind of bad about it, but I do go to a lot of live shows to try to support the smaller acts I care about.


There were many labels that weren't on Spotify before (e.g. Profound Lore, Century Media) because they felt what Spotify paid wasn't fair.

The problem is that Spotify is so ubiquitous now, that even if they pay next to nothing, it's still in the labels best interest to be there, like in the case of the above labels that got in recently. It's a free market, and I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share, but even so i'd rather if Spotify is winning instead of Google or Apple.

Author:  Bamba [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

RuySan wrote:
It's a free market, and I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share, but even so i'd rather if Spotify is winning instead of Google or Apple.


There are certainly plenty of alternatives, though whether they pay better or are viable by your definition I couldn't speak to.

Author:  RuySan [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

I use bandcamp every now and then, and even bought music there. But it's mostly very few indie labels are artists selling and streaming directly to their audience. It's a good service and idea but their catalogue isn't very extensive. And some labels really don't know how digital is supposed to work when they want to charge me 15€ for an album.

This label, really knows how to do it:

https://blood-music.bandcamp.com/

Every album is on a "pay what you want" scheme they have some lovely merchandise and limited editions of vinyl and cd's to sell.

Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 16:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

RuySan wrote:
I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share

Won't somebody think of the uber-rich?!

Author:  Curiosity [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share

Won't somebody think of the uber-rich?!


Well, the vast majority of musicians are not uber-rich.

I don’t think anyone is worried about Metallica or Taylor Swift becoming poor, but for acts that would sell far fewer records, streaming is way less profitable.

Author:  Bamba [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share

Won't somebody think of the uber-rich?!


Are you genuinely suggesting that all musicians are really rich? Hell, even if they were, why shouldn't they receive a rightful share of the earnings their work generates?

Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share

Won't somebody think of the uber-rich?!


Well, the vast majority of musicians are not uber-rich.

The non-rich ones have the most to gain from being on Spotify in non-£££ terms.

Author:  Curiosity [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share

Won't somebody think of the uber-rich?!


Well, the vast majority of musicians are not uber-rich.

The non-rich ones have the most to gain from being on Spotify in non-£££ terms.


I’m sure that their landlords will happily take non-£££ as payment.

Author:  Bamba [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share

Won't somebody think of the uber-rich?!


Well, the vast majority of musicians are not uber-rich.

The non-rich ones have the most to gain from being on Spotify in non-£££ terms.


I’m sure that their landlords will happily take non-£££ as payment.


Obligatory: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure

Author:  Cras [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Not convinced that applies directly. Exposure to listeners on Spotify directly equals cash, doesn't it? Unlike the idea of a writer being potentially exposed to people who might possibly one day commission them to do work in the future.

Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
I wish some viable alternative happens that gives musicians their rightful share

Won't somebody think of the uber-rich?!


Well, the vast majority of musicians are not uber-rich.

The non-rich ones have the most to gain from being on Spotify in non-£££ terms.


I’m sure that their landlords will happily take non-£££ as payment.

Well, that's the question isn't it? Do musicians who aren't rolling in money get less money because they're on Spotify than if they weren't? There are several (hell, hundreds) of artists I've found through Spotify which I'd never have done otherwise, so they made a (tiny) gain that they wouldn't have got if they weren't on there.

But then someone might not buy their CD because they're on Spotify.

Author:  markg [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 17:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Does anyone have any idea of approximately what % of our tenner a month goes to artists and how much Spotify just keep? And how that compares to CDs or whatever?

Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 18:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Again, Spotify don't pay artists. You either get featured through your label (who may also take a cut of the Spotify $) or via a few third parties like https://www.dittomusic.com .

It used to be that if you want to support the artist you go to a gig, but I don't know how true that is nowadays.

Author:  Bamba [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 18:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Grim... wrote:
It used to be that if you want to support the artist you go to a gig, but I don't know how true that is nowadays.


Also: buying merch.

Author:  Curiosity [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 18:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Grim... wrote:
Again, Spotify don't pay artists. You either get featured through your label (who may also take a cut of the Spotify $) or via a few third parties like https://www.dittomusic.com .

It used to be that if you want to support the artist you go to a gig, but I don't know how true that is nowadays.


I don’t have any numbers to hand, but the current market is VERY much geared to making money from touring, and less through record sales or streaming. There are exceptions, but touring is where most make their money.

One knock on is that contingency insurance is going through significant expansion to deal with all the extra tours (and the sheer size of the big ones like Adele, Ed Sheeran et al).

Most ‘lesser known’ artists I have seen opine on it are generally a bit pissed off with the revenue from Spotify and the rest, but there’s not a lot they can do about it; they need to be on there now as it’s how a significant portion of their audience will find them.

Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 19:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

That sounds very similar to a book I read about what bands thought about the rise of music radio (and specifically home taping), and then again with MTV (and, of course, they survived).

Fucked if I can remember what it was called, it was really good. I'll give it some thought.

Author:  Pundabaya [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 19:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

How it compares to CDs: most artists got fuck all from CDs anyway. Now, I'm wondering how much of the streaming money the artists actually see if it goes through record companies first.

Author:  Cras [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 20:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Pundabaya wrote:
How it compares to CDs: most artists got fuck all from CDs anyway. Now, I'm wondering how much of the streaming money the artists actually see if it goes through record companies first.


And, of course, small struggling artists wouldn't have got a CD onto the shelves of the likes of HMV.

Author:  asfish [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 21:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/0 ... -for-2017/

List of what some of the streaming services pay, interestingly all of them lose money.

Author:  Warhead [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 0:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Good grief. If Spotify is $600million in debt, how the hell does it keep going? How do ANY of them keep going?

Author:  Cras [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 0:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Warhead wrote:
Good grief. If Spotify is $600million in debt, how the hell does it keep going? How do ANY of them keep going?


It's not about making money and more. It's about eating VC funding until you get bought by somebody.

Author:  MaliA [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Cras wrote:
Warhead wrote:
Good grief. If Spotify is $600million in debt, how the hell does it keep going? How do ANY of them keep going?


It's not about making money and more. It's about eating VC funding until you get bought by somebody.


Can confirm.

Author:  Sir Taxalot [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Since upgrading to Spotify premium, I have completely stopped 'borrowing' music from 'friends'.

I'm happy to pay for the convenience of accessing music easily, wherever I am (offline availability is a big plus). The playlists, recommendations & suggestions are nice features to help mix it up a bit.

Author:  DavPaz [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

I too have ceased the borrowing of music, but due to Google Play premium (which my brother pays for ;) )

Author:  Curiosity [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Grim... wrote:
That sounds very similar to a book I read about what bands thought about the rise of music radio (and specifically home taping), and then again with MTV (and, of course, they survived).

Fucked if I can remember what it was called, it was really good. I'll give it some thought.


Of course, you’ll never know how many of your all time favourite bands didn’t make it.

It isn’t even a vaguely controversial statement to say that Spotify prioritises consumer experience over the creators of the content though. Right?

Author:  Mr Dave [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

I've found so many basically unheard of bands, and boughted stuff by them (for the gifting of people with similar tastes) via Spotify, I'd say from that perspective it helps the smaller bands. Without it I don't know how I'd find new music.

Author:  Hearthly [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Mr Dave wrote:
I've found so many basically unheard of bands, and boughted stuff by them (for the gifting of people with similar tastes) via Spotify, I'd say from that perspective it helps the smaller bands. Without it I don't know how I'd find new music.


Mixtapes.

Preferably off a girl at college you really fancy.

Author:  Mr Dave [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Hearthly wrote:
Mixtapes.

Preferably off a girl at college you really fancy.

I think that'd get me arrested.

Author:  asfish [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Cras wrote:
Warhead wrote:
Good grief. If Spotify is $600million in debt, how the hell does it keep going? How do ANY of them keep going?


It's not about making money and more. It's about eating VC funding until you get bought by somebody.


Don't they plan to list on the stock market this year?

Think there is a bit of urgency as they have at least a billion of borrowings that has increased interest rates and stock price discounts the longer they take to do this.

Don't really understand the 8-13 billion value, they make no money. Growth comes from more subscribers, so they will have to end up buying rivals to grow at some point?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... g_services

There not even the biggest in terms of users and certainly not the number of tracks.

Very happy with the service though so once the free year we got from Vodafone runs out I'll be signing up.

Author:  Cras [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Curiosity wrote:
It isn’t even a vaguely controversial statement to say that Spotify prioritises consumer experience over the creators of the content though. Right?


Probably not - but again, so do HMV. Or did, when they actually sold music.

Author:  Bamba [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Curiosity wrote:
It isn’t even a vaguely controversial statement to say that Spotify prioritises consumer experience over the creators of the content though. Right?


It might or might not be, it's hard to say when I've no real idea what that sentence means. The 'consumer experience' is the UX, the access to music they want and other features like recommendations, playlists, etc. None of that is at all at odds with Spotify's duty to the creators (i.e. to pay them money) so what are we actually saying here?

Author:  Curiosity [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Bamba wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
It isn’t even a vaguely controversial statement to say that Spotify prioritises consumer experience over the creators of the content though. Right?


It might or might not be, it's hard to say when I've no real idea what that sentence means. The 'consumer experience' is the UX, the access to music they want and other features like recommendations, playlists, etc. None of that is at all at odds with Spotify's duty to the creators (i.e. to pay them money) so what are we actually saying here?


That Spotify will happily fuck over artists/creators because they are in a position of power in the market, and if they need to make a choice to pay artists or do other things, they will do other things.

Author:  Bamba [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

Curiosity wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
It isn’t even a vaguely controversial statement to say that Spotify prioritises consumer experience over the creators of the content though. Right?


It might or might not be, it's hard to say when I've no real idea what that sentence means. The 'consumer experience' is the UX, the access to music they want and other features like recommendations, playlists, etc. None of that is at all at odds with Spotify's duty to the creators (i.e. to pay them money) so what are we actually saying here?


That Spotify will happily fuck over artists/creators because they are in a position of power in the market, and if they need to make a choice to pay artists or do other things, they will do other things.


Well, they don't 'choose' whether to pay artists or not; they'll pay the labels (as Grim points out) according to whatever contract they've got with them. And you can be pretty sure they'll be honouring that as record labels aren't known for leaving money on the table. Will Spotify be using their ubiquity in the market as leverage when negotiating these deals? Absolutely for sure. But claiming that they'll just decide not to pay and go do 'something else' instead is a bit odd.

Author:  Grim... [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spotify - Free music streaming thingy

I think it's worth pointing out (in one case) how much Spotify pays artists - it's $0.00066481 per premium stream (ad-supported streams pay $0.00022288).

That's really close to being nothing at all. If you - as an artist - wanted to earn $100 from Spotify, your songs would have to be streamed 150,419 times on the premium tier.

Now, how much of that is the label's fault - Bob Lefsetz says "quite a lot": http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/2017/01/11 ... -payments/

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