Be Excellent To Each Other

Dead inside, anyway.

I think vegetarians can get by eating cheese and eggs. Vegans can have issues with various vitamins and minerals (B12. especially)

B12 (amongst others) are added to many foods. Most notably Marmite (hurrah!)

examples and citation needed

Somewhere.

You've convinced me, I better start eating meat!

It's somewhere around, google it, I didn't invent the search engine for nothing y'know

MR HAPPY LYING FACE.

Well, clearly you can, because you can now find these in other foods and supplements, but it adds more weight to the thought that humans are programmed to be carnivorous and that it is part of evolution that humans ate meat for sustenance, not purely pleasure, but that's what I meant by vegetarianism only coming about after society evolved.

Quite, so now we're all civilised and that, there's no need to go around killing things and eating them just out of habit or whatever. Meat is supposedly not terribly good for you in the long run anyway, although that may be vegetarian propaganda.

And anyone killing animals for fun is clearly someone the relevant authorities should be keeping an eye on, IMHO.

The point is that if you eat meat in a modern industrialized nation, you are likely part of a system that causes more uneccessary slaughter than all the Great White Hunters in the world, due to pure wastage and profit chasing.

The "debate" is really just about wanting to feel morally superior to rednecks in combat fatigues. We are not better than they. I don't see how allowing animals to die for no good reason, because it's convenient to buy inexpensive packaged meat is morally superior to personally killing them for fun.

Quite true, but I don't think anyone was claiming that it was.

I can definitely see what you're saying and perhaps morally superior isn't the right phrase. Is personally running a factory that uses child labourers different to buying goods which for all you know may have been produced in one? I'd say yes, it is though ultimately there's a good argument that it shouldn't be.

If you want to follow this point to its natural conclusion:

If you buy just about anything in a modern industrialised nation, you are likely part of a system that causes more unnecessary suffering and slaughter of innocent families/children/nations than any given war, due to greed, corruption and man's inhumanity to man.

If having animals die for my dinner is no better than shooting them so I can jerk off about it later, then really in the grand scheme of things, vegetarianism isn't better either given the amount of needless suffering in the world.

But that's all just a little depressing, isn't it?

It is depressing, yes. And being part of the demand is the same as being part of the supply.

We are none of us innocent, is my point. I don't like the idea of whack'em, stack'em and rack'em, but I would consider myself a total hypocrite to argue against it, unless I give up eating meat.

And yes, I stayed out of the China Is Evil Ban The Olympics stuff because I probably have way too much Chinese made stuff, so again, it would be hypocritical.

When I was down in Kent a few months ago, we went for a walk, and there was a shoot going on over the way. I really didn't have a problem with it, but Mrs A did. I think I'd quite like to try it someday, but you can stick me in the 'gun toting redneck' box of you want.

There's some people my dad know who go out lamping. Farmers are happy with that too.

In summation:

Meat is murder.

Tasty, tasty murder.