Be Excellent To Each Other

I do see your point, and yes a swear word used in an insulting way will of course be insulting. But I'd always be more insulted by a non-sweary insult that someone had clearly put more thought and description into. The most hurtful things that have ever been said to me didn't involve any swearing at all, and I'm willing to bet that I could make any given person a lot more upset with a descriptive, non-sweary insult than I could by calling them a "bitch".

So, to summarise: you're all twats and cunts; I'm a prick and I'm off to fucking kill myself.

THREAD LOCKED.

FTFY you cunt, scotch is whisky or shortbread or any of the other tat we sell to you foreign types

Well, yes, maybe.

I myself feel sad that a word used in many cases to be hateful is that of a woman's reproductive organs. I think it is sad that to many people the worst thing you can be in the English language is a vagina. That's the worst, most hateful word that many people can think of to call someone else, and it happens to mean 'ladybits' as someone quite funnily called it.

Used in other ways I do not think that it is offensive, but used when said in venom think it most certainly is.

Saying that you can use it in a non-offensive context doesn't mean that it is not offensive when said in the context we are talking about. A faggot is some kind of meatball - when you shoot someone down in Halo and a redneck American calls you a 'faggot' he says it to offend you (sadly, one of the worst things you can be in some parts of America, it seems, is gay).

Oh well.

Only a scotch would say that.

It completely is, isn't it? I mean how many of us find the word 'fuck' offensive just as a word on its own (not used as an insult as I think we've covered that already)? I don't. I think in my grandparents' generation probably most people would've been offended by the word, and my parents' probably about 50/50.

I do honestly think we'll get to a point where the C word becomes just as desensitised; perhaps not in our generation, but definitely one or two down the line.

Hey, we own you. You'll be called whatever we call you.

I'm with Stephen Fry on this and don't believe that anyone is really truly shocked by swearing, they are just shocked on behalf of others and that as he rightly says is preposterous.

Message received, loud and clear.
Just to outline my position I certainly don't go around swearing at people all day, I just feel that some people rather revel in the position of 'being offended'.

I do sympathise with that point of view, but as a few people have pointed out, it's all but regarded as having two meanings now, if it hasn't, in fact, completely lost the original one. I have only ever heard it used to describe someone as an unpleasant person, never to refer to ladygardens.

("Ladybits" was me in the post you were quoting )



Absolutely 100% agreed - but the same goes for a squillion other words, swearies and non-swearies.



Also entirely agreed!



Faggots are yummers. Brain's Faggots and mashed potato used to be a treat dinner when I was a young 'un.

Mmmm, faggots.
...
See, that line would mean something very different to an American..

One time I was in the States working as a set carpenter on an independent film, I was chatting with the make-up artist and said "I'm off out the back for a fag". He had no idea what I meant, and hilarity ensued as he genuinely thought I was off out cottaging on my break. When I explained it to him it amused him hugely.

Language is a funny thing.

I have never seen a faggot in my life. There was once someone standing outside calling out 'try a faggot', hardly able to keep a straight face, with many confuse people around. I steered clear though because the smell alone, from about 30 ft away was making me feel wretched.

Fuck me, I know we're permanently drunk up here, but still...how much did I go for?

WullieOoster FTFY

I'm suddenly reminded of that Stewart Lee gig where he tries his hardest to wind up the Scottish audience, referring to them as "scotch" and then going on about how William Wallace was a paedophile. And then saying - "but aaaah, I'm part Scotch".

Indeed! Then when someone in the audience said "SCOTTISH!" he replied along the lines of "Yes, I know. I can see you're sitting there thinking "He obviously hasn't even done the most basic research""

tres droll

I'd use the word "cunt" as a term of endearment for my closest friends, but it still feels shocking to hear it to describe ladyparts (eg Derek and Clive's "cunt-kicker" routine).

I think thats taking it too literally. When someone calls someone else a dick or a cunt or a twat They aren't saying they are reproductive organs, they are announcing that the events that have transpired have caused me to set aside social niceties. You don't talk about your genetalia in public. So the word brings about shock because social norms are not in effect.

And perversely it also strengthens friendships - because saying swear words arround friends is like saying we are personal, we are friends, we are strong enough to not need social politeness. And so it bonds people together. Thats why kids swear so much.

And then, as people want to appear friendly they use swearing in more and more formal situations, and so the word becomes weakened until new words are needed.

(Aside: I've just thought - the same could be said of social networking sites - the standards of friendships lower until new sites are needed)

Also Cunt is the only nice term for vagina emptolomologically (sic) - as vagina and most other terms describe the vagina as mearly a sword sheathe a place for the penis to go.

The Penn and Teller episode on swearing is awesome. Swearing is a nessecery and brilliant tool. Yes its main use is to be horrible to people, but being horrible to people is a thing that language needs to be capable of doing.

(sorry if this has already been said, just found thread and started ranting before reading it all )

This is what I've bumblingly been trying to say. And the reason that cunt is worse than cock is that it is even more a diversion from normal social niceties to discuss ladybits than it is to describle manbits.

The correct nice word for vagina is minge. It's a lovely word.

"Ginger" is correctly pronounced "ging-wah", though, with hard "g"s. It is therefore sufficiently different from "minge" that no concern need be had about the latter word.

Certainly doesn't for me. That may of course be down to the fact that I'm a ginger (-bearded) fat sweaty person.

But they are not saying that, they are saying that they are horrible spiteful person by using one of the meanings of a word that has more than one.

Take the word "set". It has loads of meanings (I belive that it's the word in the English language with the most seperate meanings). If I say "I am waiting for the Jelly to set", I do not mean the same thing as if I say, "I am waiting for the sun to set". Likewise, if I say, "I think you are a cunt", then I don't mean the same thing as if I say. "I'd like to touch your cunt".

It doesn't work very well as a chat up line, unfortunately.

I was trying to be polite. The First draft (draught?) was "I'm gonna fucking fuck you in the fucking cunt."

Malc

Blimey Malc how many eggs have you had today!

Also: Snatch, Growler, Flange, Front bum.

And I say "Get to fucking fuck" sir!

I had 4 eggs on Sunday, but none today!

Malc

A number of people would feel that way. No debate there. A number of people - including exactly half the women who've posted in this thread, incidentally - feel differently.

And yet, despite somebody saying repeatedly that it DOES offend them, people are still making comments like "I don't believe anyone's truly offended by swearing" and "I do feel that some people rather revel in being offended", or telling the person involved that they're wrong to be offended because the word doesn't mean what they think it means.

Doesn't that seem uncomfortably close to blaming the victim to anyone else?

Oh yeah, while we're on the subject - this current prevailing notion of "cunt has a meaning entirely separate from vagina, to the point that the two meanings are almost entirely unconnected" - what utter (aha aha aha) bollocks. Do you seriously think that if you asked anyone what the word meant their first answer would be "an unpleasant person"? Do you seriously think there's anyone out there aged above ten who knows the "unpleasant person" meaning and not the "ladyparts" meaning?

I don't mean to hector or nag, as stated as nauseam a) swearing in and of itself is great, and b) everyone's got their opinion and they're entitled to it. I've got no argument with anyone deciding, for example, that there just aren't enough people truely offended by these words to be worth bothering with. But come on. "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you seem to think it means"? Really? Honestly?

In all honesty, I'd probably say 'unpleasant person' before 'ladybits' if you asked me what it meant.

not much time, but yes, I think most people would say that a cunt is a horrible person, in fact I think most people would say "Dave" or "John" or whoever the local cunt is. and as for your 2nd question, do you think there is a person who doesn't know that set means a jelly going hard, and the sun sinking below the horizon?

gotta dash now, sorry for the brusque reply

Malc

I didn't like it, but apparently Rock and Rolla, or whatever it is called is even worse.

Nah, RocknRolla's pretty funny for laugh out loud moments as it goes.

No one's said that people aren't offended by it. Of course they are - I'd be offended if someone called me a cunt. Same as if they said I smell or am ugly.

What's been argued is that it's not inherently sexist or oppressing the female gender. My sample of two women off-board both said that they didn't think the word was sexist, just rude, same as "prick", "fucker", "wanker", etc. And I'm not sure Meems has actually said she finds it sexist per se, just deeply offensive*. The two aren't the same thing.

Does being a male feminist get the chicks, by the way?


*My apologies for misrepresenting you Meems, if you do in fact think the word is sexist.

Fair enough. I'm pretty sure you're wrong.


Not remotely the same thing though, it it? The one meaning of "set" wasn't ever connected with the other and certainly didn't arise from it.

I'm pretty sure he's right. Poll time!

I love polls.*

*Snigger.

Which is absolutely fair enough. Personally, I think there are enough women who are offended by it and do see it as sexist to make it worth avoiding those words, but I totally understand why someone would disagree.

And I'd been married for years before discovering feminism, so I'll never know.

OK, even I'm sick of hearing my own voice at this point and everything relevant that needs saying has probably been said several times, so reckon I should pretty much leave it there for this thread. Thanks for a decently rational chat on the subject. You bunch of dicks.

People who are offended can fuck off. If someone's not insulting or injuring you in some way, they're not bothering you. Get the hell over yourself. "Offended" is just a prissy word for "wanted to feel self-righteous for a bit". I'm sick of everyone bloody whinging about other people making a few simple sounds with their mouth in case those sounds summon a demon who'll immediately destroy all the dear, sweet little angelic children in the area.

I remember getting a smacked arse for saying crap when I was about 4, I didn't know what it meant and was strongly influenced by the naughty boys that lived next door. I also remember it was the first time in my life I felt a strong sense of injustice! I had been hitting those paper cap gun things with a rock, the boys had told me the rock was "crap". Obviously I hit my finger with the rock so ran home crying and bleeding to tell my mum I hit it with a crap....smack! Yeah, thanks mum....

Slightly related question: how is "c*nt" any less offensive than "cunt"? The one single meaning of "c*nt" is literally "cunt". The one purpose of writing "c*nt" is to imply "cunt" - to make the reader think "cunt". Surely by putting "cunt" into the reader's mind (which must be the intention of the writer), it is just as offensive as writing "cunt"?

If, somehow, the reader fails to translate "c*nt" into "cunt", then hasn't "c*nt" failed in it's one role? (A role which is rather pointless, given the fact that "cunt" exists.)

I'd go so far as to say that if "c*nt" is supposed to be less offensive than "cunt", it can only achieve this in the mind of a reader who doesn't make the connection, and that as such a person would have to be incredibly ingorant or naive, the implication that the reader could possibly fall into this category is quite insulting (essentially the writer appears to be saying "I've used this naughty word, but 've fooled you into thinking I haven't!"), and therefore writing "c*nt" is considerably more offensive than writing "cunt".

Or am I just being a pric*?

What about 50 c*nt?