Be Excellent To Each Other

Ok, I've just read this article from 'This is Oxfordshire' about an incidient in Mali-land:

< http://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news ... ffence.php >

So, the offence was not using a knife dangerously, but using a multi-tool that included a knife. Wouldn't a stern warning along the lines of 'put that away' have been far more effective than hauling him through the courts?

More importantly, are we really so infantalised as a country now about dangerous things that we do not know how to handle them sensibly? Yes, knives are dangerous, but should everyone who carries one be criminalised? Multi-tools are up there with gaffer tape on the usefulness scale, but these days I only take one out when I know I might need it - I have bottle opener on my key ring now.

Or is this forum just an intellectual Daily Mail-why-o-why-a-thon?

Firstly, the law says the onus is on the accused to provide a good reason why they are carrying something that can be classified as an offensive weapon, not the other way around. Whether a penknife/multitool falls under the category of offensive weapon, I don't know.

Secondly, in the current culture of 'knife crime clampdowns' and 'young hooligan killers', would anyone really expect the police to do anything different? I would hope that he'll be given a stern talking to rather than sentenced, but I guess time will tell.

This is stupid. Soon you wont be able to carry anything around...even plastic bags are dangerous, I should know, Ive killed many a people using one.

So you played Manhunt too?

I've always liked the idea of killing someone by suffusing their entire body with polystyrene. This explains why this method was used in one of the old mafia games

Yup, who hasn't?

I think you could probably think of a good reason for carrying around a book and a plastic bag though. Knives, less so.

Same could be said for a baseball bat/golf club/claw hammer/crowbar.

I think I'd rather take my chances against a multitool than any of the above used as weapons.

Was it a lockknife? If not, why is it illegal for him to carry it?

I don't know of any multitools that have locking knives on them, but I'm not exactly a multitool afficionado (except in Deus Ex)

They might have something to say about someone randomly wandering around with a golf club, but if he had a FULL SET IN HIS CAR, they might let him off. Especially if he was wearing plus fours and a beret.

You could entirely wrap someone in clingfilm as well. Roy Orbison, for example.

I have heard rumours that somoene was robbed at knifepoint the other saturday quite close to there, whether or not it is related I dunno, I could do some asking.

But on actually reading the story, i think it's a joke. He could have been fixing his bike or something. Or using it open a bottle of wine. I'll ask around, anyway, find out who it was.

haha he's only 14 so probably not the best defence.

Having a baseball bat in your car can see you getting charged for having a concealed weapon.
Having one with a ball is fine, however.

When I first moved here, not owning anything 'gardeny' I went to homebase and walked back home with a spade over one shoulder and a ho over the other. A police car did slow down as it passed me and they gave me a funny look, but that was all.

Presumably they just thought you were off to bury her.

945 bananas.

The article doesn't provide enough information. What exactly does "playing" with a multi-tool involve? And a pen-knife's knife is still pretty damned dangerous. IF the article had read "Hooded youth arrested for weilding a multi-tool knife", would you all be harder on him?

Since when have lockknives become illegal - I thought it was a blade over 4" in length that was illegal?


Most multitools/leatherman/gerber etc have lockable blades - he says fondling his Leatherman Charge.
I have a Puma General lock knife as well, which having just looked up I can't believe they cost that much now! I tend not to carry these things around with me on the streets of London though. Hackney Marshes when I'm walking the dog sometimes, but not on the street.
I've had a liking for sharp steel since I read Eddie McGees No Need To Die when I was about 12

I assumed that a lock-knife would be covered by point B there, but it all depends on whether "application of centrifugal force" could mean "rotated by hand".

The way I understand it (possibly wrong, IANAL) is that if the knife can be folded back into it's sheath WITHOUT having to press a button or lever of some sort, it's fine. If the blade locks into place (like it does on my little knife that I sometimes carry around with me if I need to open lots of boxes and things) then it's illegal.

I heard that. My brother had a really nice antique-ish locking knife, which he always claimed was illegal. Probably just showing off though.

I wonder what the most dangerous item you could legally acquire and carry about without getting hassled would be?

The Bible.

GazChap - that's selling/buying. Not the same legislation as 'carrying', as I understand it.

Good points (arf) made by everyone, thanks.

What bothers me is the escalation of the case. Assuming that the article is correct and nobody was being threatened, it comes across as a waste of resources to haul him in front of the courts. Yeah, he should be told off for being a dick with a knife, and he needs to learn somehow, but I doubt this is the best way of doing it.

Now, the deeper fear is what happens to this kid in years to come. Given the ever-increasing use of CRBs and such like, even if his discharged this will possibly mark him.

My brother once had a flick-comb, which was quite amusing when he got it out threateningly and flicked it, to reveal a comb. A comb. Comb.

Absolutely - but imagine being the copper who goes back to the station saying 'Saw a kid with a knife today. Told him off, but didn't charge him or anything.' What response do you think he would get?

Good point. Quoting from Wikipedia (but not citing, as it's unreliable):

If I'm reading that right, that last sentence there means that a folding knife has to be non-locking to be legal.

There's no such thing as 'centrifugal force'.

I had a 2" Snap-On Tools locking penknife when I was a kid. It was a very nice thing and I used to carry it everywhere. I once used it to sharpen a pencil in physics class and got it confiscated until the end of the year

Approx 10 years later, my brother got caught with a swiss army knife, same school - I don't think he was doing anything silly but someone obviously saw it and told on him. He was suspended for a few days, the police were called, came round to my parents house and gave him a severe ticking off.

Right now we're about 10 years on from that. Poor sod's probably going to end up with a criminal record.

WOT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO I ASK YOU?!???

When I was on jury duty we ended up putting a guy in the can for having a craft knife in his pocket.

Rubbish. Define your fields in terms of a rotating Cartesian frame and centrifugal force is right there, as clear as the nose on your face.

You can still buy locking knives - they're pretty essential if you don't want to cut your fingers off IMO
It is a grey area, but as far as I know it's still <4" blade it's legal to buy and own, locking or not.

http://www.outdoorsman.co.uk/index1.html

Again - own is fine, carry is not.

That's just what I was about to say.

Was he a terrorist or a nutter?

It's a difficult situation and I don't see an easy solution.

I've got a pen knife a bit like this:



Except not red or plastic.

It's basically a pen knife, but with added spoon and fork. And that once you fold out the spoon knife or fork it can split into and be used as proper cutlery.

As I'm working late at uni it is awesomely useful to eat with.

Always assumed that picnic utensiles wouldn't count, but if a multitool does...

Get the police to grow the fuck up and stop panicking every time they see a kid with a pocket knife. Kids do stupid things sometimes, that's the whole point of being a kid.

Yeah, but without wanting to sound like an arse, kids never used to fucking stab each other to death.

Nope. We were instructed that his reason ('I was decorating earlier and I forgot it was in my pocket') was not to be accepted.

Perhaps they did, but the media didn't give a shit about starting campaigns to "GET KNIVES OFF BRITISH STREETS!" in order to sell more papers back then, so they didn't bother reporting on them as much.

I'll tell you what's dangerous: pens sticking up from desks. Fall asleep once, you're blind.

Isn't knife crime actually down?

Quite a lot of types of crime are on the way down, I read.

This wasn't the source, but I do enjoy playing around with this. Turns out Hillingdon is rougher and crimmier than Liverpool. Well, most of London is, to be fair. Also, this is a county full of pansies.

It's because there was so much stabbing that there is no one left to commit any more crimes.

I was on a training course last week near-ish to oxford (around Abingdon way). Very nice area, I really did like it - especially compared to the hustle of London.

We went to see the White Horse. You can see even less of it from the ground than you might expect. Colour me more disappointed than I'd expected to be.