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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 13:41 
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How on earth would they check? It sounds like a term/condition just put in to justify it being a work bike.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 14:09 
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Grim... wrote:
Throw the cat away, obv.


Considered it but then it's the MOT faff/fail.

krazywookie wrote:
If they're cheap, stick a map sensor on it before any re mapping, half the time they're out of whack. And a nice air filter in the box.


Taking it back to ADS Preston (who flagged up the issues) They won't map unless it's right, which is reassuring. Got a Green Cotton filter in already.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 14:13 
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TheVision wrote:
How on earth would they check? It sounds like a term/condition just put in to justify it being a work bike.


I expect a few employers take it seriously and will ask you about it. Most don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 14:40 
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Grim... wrote:
Throw the cat away, obv.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 14:46 
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Zardoz wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Throw the cat away, obv.

Considered it but then it's the MOT faff/fail.

They pretty much just shrugged their shoulders when I took the Puma in.

They did, howver, insist that it had at least one silencer in it.

"I shouldn't be able to look up the exhaust and see the engine." :DD

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 14:50 
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Ah, Eid supercar high jinx starting early with a soft top lambo wheel spinning up the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 15:39 
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Grim... wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Throw the cat away, obv.

Considered it but then it's the MOT faff/fail.

They pretty much just shrugged their shoulders when I took the Puma in.

They did, howver, insist that it had at least one silencer in it.

"I shouldn't be able to look up the exhaust and see the engine." :DD

:D

Well, I've bought it now. I suppose down the line I could always swap it out myself. It's going to the garage this time though as I'm sure it's all the original gubbins that will be a right PITA to remove.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 19:40 
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Zardoz wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Throw the cat away, obv.

Considered it but then it's the MOT faff/fail.

They pretty much just shrugged their shoulders when I took the Puma in.

They did, howver, insist that it had at least one silencer in it.

"I shouldn't be able to look up the exhaust and see the engine." :DD

:D

Well, I've bought it now. I suppose down the line I could always swap it out myself. It's going to the garage this time though as I'm sure it's all the original gubbins that will be a right PITA to remove.

I don't reckon it makes that much difference, good systems come with sport cats which don't really offer much resistance.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 21:20 
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High-flow cat is what I'll get when I get an exhaust built, I keep this lump.

A colleague got me to take him out in it last week, because he's interested in upsizing from a 116i into an estate with an automatic, and he wanted to see what the ride is like in a sofa.

Instead he put a deposit down on an M140i auto at the weekend ("I feel like I need to have this in my life" is what he said while I had my foot to the floor).


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:21 
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Had a letter from Skoda last night re my wife's car, they were offering to do the emissions fix.

The letter said that independent testing had shown there would be no issues on performance and went on to offer me 3 places close by our house (one of which I use for servicing) to do the fix.

Not sure if I should go ahead really, expecting the same letter from my Skoda at some point as well


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:32 
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Under no circumstances get it done. There are no benefits to you and a substantial chance of worse mpg and poor running.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:48 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Under no circumstances get it done. There are no benefits to you and a substantial chance of worse mpg and poor running.


What was the 'fix' in the end? Did they just gimp something via software or actually make any physical changes to the car?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:57 
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Software only for the 1.2 and 2.0. A silly mesh filter on the 1.6 as well.
It shoves a lot more exhaust gas back into the inlet so you are running on used air rather than fresh.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:05 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Under no circumstances get it done. There are no benefits to you and a substantial chance of worse mpg and poor running.


The car went in for service 3 weeks ago and they were trying to push me to have it done then, so doesn't look very organised.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:36 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Software only for the 1.2 and 2.0. A silly mesh filter on the 1.6 as well.
It shoves a lot more exhaust gas back into the inlet so you are running on used air rather than fresh.

Nearly all diesels do this - the thing that controls it is called an EGR valve (exhaust gas recirculation), and it's one of the things engine mapping changes.

Land Rover ones (and perhaps all makes of them) have a habit of gumming up and sticking open, hence I know about them :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:41 
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Yeah, I might possibly have a gummy exit pipe too.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:41 
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Could you have a look at it?

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:42 
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Brilliant! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:42 
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I'll get my tools.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:28 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Software only for the 1.2 and 2.0. A silly mesh filter on the 1.6 as well.
It shoves a lot more exhaust gas back into the inlet so you are running on used air rather than fresh.

Yes, replacing more oxygen with carbon in the combustion process will definitely not affect performance. Science!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:10 
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BikNorton wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Software only for the 1.2 and 2.0. A silly mesh filter on the 1.6 as well.
It shoves a lot more exhaust gas back into the inlet so you are running on used air rather than fresh.

Yes, replacing more oxygen with carbon in the combustion process will definitely not affect performance. Science!

Well, if everything is in good working order then it won't. There is a fair bit of oxygen in exhaust gases, and the car knows how much it needs from the exhaust and how much it needs from "fresh" air compared to the amount of fuel it's putting into the engine.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:48 
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It will if the goal is to reduce emissions.

Sure the exhaust has oxygen in it, but less than fresh air because of all the carbon (and nitrogen).
Some of that oxygen is probably CO, CO2 and NOx as well. Putting more of it in the intake reduces the oxygen taken in for a given boost pressure. That means less fuel and less energetic combustion.

To maintain performance you have to increase boost to get the oxygen (and fuelling) back, and you're back where you started, with extra back and forth for all those impurities interfering with combusion but maybe reducing exhaust temp but maybe being hotter so increasing temp.

I don't get how they reduce emissions without harming performance, except by maybe destroying engines/vastly increasing maintenance.

Bit like how no-one got how they reduced emissions without a DPF (urea? Jesus I don't even remember now this has dragged on so long) I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:56 
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BikNorton wrote:
Some of that oxygen is probably CO, CO2 and NOx as well.

Oh, it absolutely is. But that's all taken into account - as long as everything is working right, there will be enough oxygen in the firing chamber to burn off all the fuel at the same rate as if you were just using air from outside the car. Computers and shit add that up.

What I don't understand is how removing the oxygen from your exhaust fumes helps anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:58 
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Replacement car delivered.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:59 
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That's what I mean though - put additonal non-oxygen (or oxygen bound more strongly to other stuff) into the cylinder, the ecu reduces (or maybe increases?) fuelling, means less energy into the piston.

Fewer bad stuff out but less skids, not fewer bad stuff with the same skids.

Unless they're just fuelling up to break the bonds, which means reduced economy and more heat. And the extra gunk means things gunking up faster.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:59 
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Is that a Polo? It looks too small to be a Golf.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:09 
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No It is a Golf GT.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:17 
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Why is it not tumeric yellow?

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:28 
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I can't order a new one yet. This is a replacement, till i can.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:43 
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Swept back fuel cap!

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:47 
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KovacsC wrote:
I can't order a new one yet. This is a replacement, till i can.


It better be Tumeric Yellow

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 13:15 
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not 100% sure...

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 13:40 
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Re the emissions thing I recall when the story first broke there were interviews with a few engineers who were saying that what VW were claiming for their engines was clearly impossible, in that you couldn't increase power, with improved efficiency, and lower emissions all at the same time - so there had to be some sort of shenanigans going on.

They also said that there was a culture at VW of the managers being engineer types, so their claims that they didn't know what was going on were 'geschwätz'.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 14:37 
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Christ, look at the fuel tank in a Porsche 997:

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 14:39 
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Bet that started out as a lump of expanding foam. Or they've just turned the car upside down and poured fibre glass into it.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 14:56 
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Suppose it gave the body designers something to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 17:29 
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Grim... wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Software only for the 1.2 and 2.0. A silly mesh filter on the 1.6 as well.
It shoves a lot more exhaust gas back into the inlet so you are running on used air rather than fresh.

Nearly all diesels do this - the thing that controls it is called an EGR valve (exhaust gas recirculation), and it's one of the things engine mapping changes.

Land Rover ones (and perhaps all makes of them) have a habit of gumming up and sticking open, hence I know about them :)


Yep, EGRs are a normal well established bit of engine technology, albeit one that tuners like to block off and map out of use.

Unfortunately using this far more heavily than it was originally designed for is definitely causing engines to run badly and is killing EGRs in quick succession.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 18:10 
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I don't like diesels I think they're shit, there's a ridiculous amount of faffy technology that has to go into them to make them socially acceptable, which is understandable really since they run on what seems to be a substance that's quite similar to tar, and it must be quite a challenge to have them not kill everyone in a five mile radius with noxious exhaust fumes.

Petrol is the gentleman's choice of fuel.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 19:08 
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Yes. Much better for the environment having a car that burns a litre of oil every 1,500 miles.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 19:10 
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Also: Faffy technology! :DD

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 19:17 
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My tongue was firmly in my cheek ;)

I do think however that all the crap they have to lob into and around diesel engines and exhaust systems to make them work in an 'acceptable manner' is somewhat OTT though.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 19:22 
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Hearthly wrote:
My tongue was firmly in my cheek ;)

I do think however that all the crap they have to lob into and around diesel engines and exhaust systems to make them work in an 'acceptable manner' is somewhat OTT though.


There's not much difference.

Turbo to improve power and economy, same as on a petrol car.
Catalytic converter, same as on a petrol car.
EGR valve, same as on a petrol car.
Particulate filters in the exhaust, starting to appear on petrol engines too.

Adblue in the exhaust is about the only significant difference between the two fuels now.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 19:31 
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Apparently engine tech has advanced enough that egr is going out again (whereas mine was 'fixed' along with the dpf and remap). I have no citation except "a YouTube channel I don't distrust but I don't remember which one".

Apparently VW are now doing the exhaust manifold in block with turbo up against it as others, but are watercooling it for up to 20% efficiency gains (that's Engineering Explained).

Sounds great, but vw.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 19:38 
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Apparently diesel EGR is way more complicated than petrol for "don't cook the bits instantly" reasons.

Diesel really does need to be made dead in noncommercial applications.

I get the impression its coming in the uk with so many brands *only* doing diesel in the big earners at the moment - can't buy a Volvo S/V90 or new Disco Sport with a petrol here for example, or most Jag XF options (all AWD Sportbacks). Looks to me like an attempt to appease manufacturers and fuel companies before going ".....aaaaand you're done" in a year or two.

Meanwhile, bizarrely, the Morrison's next to work is 1p/l cheaper for derv than petrol at the moment. My car doesn't even hate it!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 19:40 
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Apparently I like saying apparently.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:13 
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BikNorton wrote:
I get the impression its coming in the uk with so many brands *only* doing diesel in the big earners at the moment - can't buy a Volvo S/V90 or new Disco Sport with a petrol here for example

Um...

http://rules.config.landrover.com/jdxl/ ... model.html

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:56 
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Ooh, that's new!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:32 
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That's probably Helens new car if the E-Pace isn't significantly cheaper (and has the same engine).

What I want is the new f-type 300bhp motor in an AWD XF Sportback. Well, what I *want* is an XF R Sportback (SVR!), but even if it happened I couldn't dream of affording one. I could at least *dream* of affording an XF S when they replace the v6 (I'm hoping that's why there's no Sportback XF S yet).

(Brackets!)


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 15:50 
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I'm not having much luck trying to find a BMW 530d GT that I can borrow for a couple of days to see if I actually like the way they drive.

I can't test drive one, as they're not made new any more and I don't want to waste a dealer's time test driving a car when I'm not in a position to buy it yet.

Can't find any rental companies that have one to rent out either.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 15:55 
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GazChap wrote:
I don't want to waste a dealer's time test driving a car when I'm not in a position to buy it yet.

I mean - if you are seriously thinking about buying one in the future then I'm sure they won't mind.

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