Be Excellent To Each Other

Ah yes, I was looking forward to hearing about the test drive. I'm intrigued to hear a car enthusiast's opinion of it. We were thinking of getting one but can't park outside the house, so figured we'd never be able to charge the thing. Are you gonna make like a tree and Leaf?

If you bought one in that colour, you'd be a monstrous human being.

Quite like it in yellow, but it'd have to be black and chrome for me.
(With a very loud titanium exhaust system and K&Ns)

If I was going electric at the moment it would have to be one of these in orange, as my budget won't stretch to a Tesla.

Are electric cars freezing cold in winter or is the amount of energy needed to heat the cabin negligible?

Negligible to the point where you're going to lose as much power due to the temperature of the batteries, I think Kalmar said once.

Um, how about:

I think quite a lot can have the cabin heaters run on a timer while it's plugged in, so you'll have a lovely toasty cabin to get into before you start.

The posher Land Rovers would do that too. They had tiny little diesel burners that would heat the cabin up either on a timer, or when you pressed a button on the remote.

People used to panic because they'd see smoke coming out from under the front wheelarch while the car was sat in their driveway, but it was only the exhaust fumes.

Oh mate, don't even get me started on the 918.

In brief: how much better to drive would it have been "simply" with that glorious, 10000RPM-revving V8, about 400kg lighter without all those stupid batteries and motors, and probably costing £200k instead of £700k? I mean seriously, £700k for a car - and that's the cheapest one?

Yes I know the batteries/motors give more traction in a straight line or whatever but I want optimal HANDLING. Which ever way you slice it, 400kg or whatever it is of dead weight batteries just isn't going to help.

I know no-one will agree with me but I personally hate these hype-wagon million-quid hybrids; to my mind they've just thrown obscene, unattainable amounts of money at something that's essentially flawed at the moment with heavy, old school batteries. There will come a day when this tech works, undeniably, but we need much smaller, lighter, higher charge density batteries first.

If I couldn't resell, give me a £60k Cayman GT4 over this thing any day; much less than one tenth the cost and IMO a much purer driving proposition. But like I say, that's just me, I'm really old school.

If all you care about is handling and "pure driving", you should have a go in my Puma

Heh. Well, as I said to you in person mate, they are indeed awesome.

I've been meaning to write a blog post about my experience with the Leaf for a week now, just no time. I'll put some random thoughts here:

• Not hearing an engine roar into life when I pressed the Start button confused me for a good 10 seconds.
• Pulling away from a standstill in complete silence was surprisingly exciting, yet frightening in the same measure - had anyone been stood near me or about to walk into my path, they'd have no clue I was about to move
• Getting back into my BMW after handing the car back felt like getting into a Model T Ford. The vibrations through the car even just at idle were instantly felt and everything felt archaic as a result.
• I only experienced "range anxiety" once, and that was only due to some unusual plans later in the evening which would have meant potentially having to use the Celica/Jazz instead of the Leaf for the evening. In all honesty, the Leaf probably would have coped.
• The interior is fantastic given the type of car. The "infotainment" works well, and lots of toys come as standard. The model I had, the Tekna, also had a heated steering wheel, heated seats and an overhead view camera*
• Performance wasn't electrifying (pun intended) but more than adequate - 0-60 is supposedly 11 seconds but it felt quicker, most likely due to the instant torque.
• Charging the car up overnight was painless and would have cost around £2 for 100 miles of travel, meaning that compared to a good £2,500 or so in fuel costs for the BMW for my daily commute, the Leaf would cost about £180.
• Rear legroom is amazing - quite possibly slightly more legroom than in the BMW.
• The amount of space in the boot is also good for the size of car. The seats fold down but there is a lip so not a flat load surface.
• I genuinely felt excited about getting in the car and having a drive - I haven't felt that way about a car (other than the Celica) for a while!

* witchcraft. Uses cameras on the front, rear and sides and "distorts" the image, then puts a graphic of the car in the middle and it basically gives you a full view around you while reversing.

The Nissan GT-R (R35) is regarded as one of the best handling cars in its class, and is a bit of a lardy butt - it was specifically designed to be the weight that it is (around 1,700kg if memory serves me correctly) so that it could get all its power down etc.

How long did you have it?

I was supposed to have it for 72 hours, but it turns out it was actually for sale rather than being a demo car, and one of the dealers in the group sold it so I had to take it back a day early.

I covered around about 150-160 miles in it.

Do you just plug it into 3pin socket to charge?

Depends what you mean by "handling", Gaz.
The GTR has amazing traction, roadholding, grip, speed, efficacy. It is an amazingly effective machine.

"Handling" though? It's very safe, predictable, amazingly effective - but sorry to say, a bit leaden in my view. The Cayman "handles" far better despite being laughably slower, much worse in the wet, far less predictable on-limit, less safe. Does that make sense?

The best handling cars in the world are stuff like the Atom, the Seven, BAC Mono, Radical - all superlight. Even that Seven with a 600cc Suzuki engine handles amazingly, it just doesn't go very fast.

People conflate "handling" with other terms IMO. There can be little doubt that if you removed a half-tonne of weight from the 918 (and re-optimised it for that vastly reduced weight, obv), it would be a better handler, despite being slower.

Yup. There are two charging sockets available. One, the 3.3kW socket, is standard fit. The other, a 6.6kW socket, is optional.

From a 3.3kW socket, you take the supplied power cable and brick, plug it in to a 3-pin socket in the house/garage, then plug the other end into the car. It'll take around 8 hours for a full charge I think, but the car usually only charges up to 80% (unless you tell it otherwise) as that's apparently better for the battery, so a "full" charge takes around 6 hours.

The 6.6kW socket can be used with the fast DC chargers at motorway services etc. which can do a charge to 80% in half an hour. Most of these are free at the point of use, you just need to sign up to the various schemes - some of which are free, some charge a membership fee (about £10 a year I think based on my limited research.)

Apparently you can also use the 6.6kW socket with your home electricity supply, but whether this uses the 3-pin plug or a dedicated socket I'm not sure.

I know what you mean, but I'd take predictability over anything else. I enjoy getting the back-end out (oo-err) as much as the next man, even though I'm shit at it, but in terms of point to point speed, predictability makes it easy to... err... predict.

The GT-R has long been criticised as being too "point and squirt" with all the computer gizmos doing most of the work for you, but the couple of times I've driven one in anger I certainly didn't feel like I was disconnected from what I was doing.

Having driven a couple of those Mustangs and in particular the V8 I really must say I would not buy one.

Yes, they're immensely fast in a straight line and yes they are nice to look at but the interior really is complete garbage. I remember seeing Clarkson drive one and mention how nothing was refined. Well I would say that myself, and they're immensely plasticy and nasty feeling too.

I know Honda isn't exactly Rolls Royce but I would take one any day over a Ford and especially an American Ford. They really are complete garbage inside.

Nice, that sounds very promising. Now, just need to move house and sell the Yeti.

Well it looks like me and Grim... are alone in liking the new Type-R. Everyone I've shown the pics to here thinks it's pretty horrible, one of the guys genuinely thought I was taking the piss when I insisted I liked it, and another thought it was 'OK if you like you that sort of thing' but then promptly dissolved into laughter when I told him how much it costs.

Massively overpriced and chavvy probably sums up the overall sentiment.

ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE WRONG.

It's totally overpriced and chavvy.

Doesn't stop me from liking it, though

The very latest 'Stang has independent suspension mate - they handle. Plus you know, you're getting a brand new, righthand drive official import, 5-litre V8 car that blasts to 60mph in well under five seconds (before any tuning - and boy, that big, low stressed pushrod engine is tunable), sounds and looks glorious, with bags of personality and charisma - for £32k OTR.

Mate, there's a reason why they cost thirty grand. I don't want refinement in a musclecar (albeit this is quite reasonable to live with according to trusted reviews) and the interior is perfectly okay to my eyes.

If you want the last word in swish Audi interiors and a V8 engine, you're going to need to double the budget.

£34k OTR, and £34.5 if you dare to want metallic paint.

Still a bargain, though.

Soz, I was looking at the Autocar review

I was looking at Ford finance options.

Which I should stop doing.

I might be joining you....
EDIT: Mind you, aren't they going to be absolutely *hammering* cars like this next year road tax wise?

I don't think I'd ever buy a new one. I'd love to, but my brain would say something like "Why spend £35k on a new car when you could spend £30k on this monster" and that would be it.

I don't like AMGs as a rule but I must admit, that's one awesome, iconic car and a fabulous engine, the likes of which we'll not see again thanks to eco laws/regs. Personally I'd have the estate version (wagon); a relatively small, 6.3 litre NA estate car is just wonderfully absurd. Trust me, that engine makes all the right noises from the drivers' seat - I've had the (albeit brief) pleasure.

Nope.
If it's bought in the next year or two it will stay on the current CO2 system for life (though I can't imagine the V8 is very low here).

After 2018 most cars are a flat rate £140 with anything over £40k paying an extra £310 on top for the first five years.
A Mustang should be under that limit so will be very reasonable to tax.

£550 *per annum* road tax on a £40k car, for five years....?
Cripes, I thought the £310 was a one-off, not recharged for each of five years. That's best part of three grand there.

£450, but yep just like the steps in stamp duty did, it's going to distort the market quite badly as everyone tries to squeeze in just under the threshold.

Once you get much above the £40k, it'll be neither here nor there.

Man, I hope Doc G doesn't read this thread, it appears I cannot add up...
(You're very tactful Dr Z. Me? I'd have LOLed)

Remind me to lend you some money at some point. With maths skills like that I'm sure I can find a way to exploit the situation

There's seemingly loads of them in Bradford.

One day I might post pics of my car to see whether I'd be forcefully ejected from the forum.

Dude, I drive a Citroën Xsara Picasso. Diesel.

I drive a blue car.

Look what some cunt did at the car park today.

Looks like a blue car did it.

Was that at work Grim..? Something similar happened to one of my colleagues a couple of weeks ago so she put a message on our notice board saying amongst other things, something like "if the owner of the car would like to be honest then get in touch"

Sure enough, he did and is now paying for the damage he did. He reckoned that he didn't do any damage to my colleagues car but he did... Clearly he thought he could get away with it.

Leaving a note saying "the witnesses think I am leaving my details, I'm not, am I?" Isn't cricket, either.

It happens a fair amount in work car parks, so I park on the road. When I worked elsewhere, someone had their motorbike knocked over and nothing said so a "All users " email was sent reminding people of the company values.

Is the Puma your daily driver, Grim...?

I bought a roof rack. Took ages to find one that was not a thule to fit a solid roof railed car. Now I can buy a boat. Yarr Harr and fiddle di di. Do what you want because a pirate is free!

Mrs Fop bashed a car in the supermarket car park but was in a rush to pick up Mini Fop, so left a note on the car with her number. Later that day he calls and, as luck would have it, works at a bodyshop and says to give him £90 and he'll fix it himself. And now we use his garage and get mates rates. Winnar or the dingars.

Sorry about your Puma, Grim...

Nah, in the train station car park.


I flit between it, the Jag and the Focus. Normally I choose by seeing which keys I pick up, or which one is facing the right direction.


He's a tough little car, he can take it

Does anyone have an opinion on the VW Phaeton?

I'm thinking about what I want to drive when I finally get out of this place and there do seem to be a number of them on the interwebs between 5-10 years old wich reasonable mileage (for a car that's 5-10 years old).

Sorry to hear of this Grim..., what a tosser for not leaving a note. It's hardly as though they couldn't have noticed making a reet ol' scrape like that.

However, I must take issue with the above - all cars are girls (as are bikes). Oh yeah. Stephen King says so in his seminal Christine, surely one of the best car stories like evarrr.

I still have unhealthy fantasies of owning a red-and-white 1957 Plymouth Fury that only ever plays old Rock 'n Roll numbers (Last I looked, these cost about as much as a new GT3 though, they killed most of 'em that were still left out there to make the film!)