Licence fee to be 'top sliced'; ITV regional programming cut

Anonymous X · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2046

British television's future gets gloomier by the second.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/28/itv.ofcom

Quote:

ITV is likely to win its battle to reduce its public service commitments while the BBC may have to give part of its licence fee to Channel 4, according to a leaked blueprint prepared by the media regulator Ofcom. Under the proposals, ITV will be allowed to cut back on regional news, reduce its current affairs output and reduce programmes produced outside London, saving almost £40m a year.

The document, drawn up by Ofcom as the basis for the second stage of its wide-ranging review of public service broadcasting and leaked to MediaGuardian, is likely to please ITV - and pitch the BBC into conflict with the regulator.

The decision, following Ofcom research that suggests the costs of ITV's public service status will outweigh the benefits by £60m by 2012, is likely to spark outrage from MPs and the broadcasting unions, who campaigned against the plans.

Ofcom is likely to suggest that the BBC's "excess" licence fee money be diverted to other broadcasters for public service television from 2012, rejecting the corporation's argument that its "unique link" with the public needs to be maintained.

The regulator also supports Channel 4's argument for public subsidy, at a lower level than the broadcaster has suggested. Ofcom says that Channel 4 will need about £40m a year in the medium term rather than the £100m it has argued for.

ITV will be allowed to reduce news output in 18 "sub-regions", reduce the volume of regional news by a fifth and halve its commitment to other regional programming in England and Wales. It will also be allowed to reduce its current affairs programming by a third and reduce its out of London production quota.

Controversial plans to merge Border and West Country with neighbouring regions will be rejected. But Ofcom will say their bulletins may be produced from outside the region, saving ITV money, if new research backs the case.

A spokesman for Ofcom said: "No decision has been made yet with regards to ITV's request to reduce its regional news production. The future funding of the BBC is being considered as part of Ofcom's wide-ranging review of public service broadcasting. The switch-over [analogue to digital] surplus is one of a number of future funding options that Ofcom has highlighted as part of its review. Those options will be taken forward in Ofcom's second consultation due to be published in the autumn. However, no decision has yet been made about the future funding of public service broadcasting in the UK."

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 14:05

Don't the BBC already give a hefty chunk of their licence fee money to C4 anyway?

Malabelm · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 14:09

Does this mean we have to suffer fewer adverts on Channel 4? No? Oh.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 14:18

Stephen Fry made a fantastic speech about this. You can download the podcast or read it on his site.
This bit is quite telling:

Quote:

So long as the playing field is level, the market will take care of the set top boxes, the distribution systems, the digital pipelines to the audio-visual retail outlet that is the consumer’s television, while the licence fee can – if it must and likes the idea – pay for content that can’t pay for itself in the normal cut and thrust of the marketplace. And if Channel 4 wants to (or must because of its remit) make that kind of public service programme as well as Hollyoaks and The Girl Whose Breasts Talk German, then the licence fee should cover that as well. The days of the BBC as a national institution, hosting and front-ending publicly funded content are over. The mighty oak must have some of its branches lopped off to light in on the smaller trees around it. Public Service Broadcasting is now merely the management of licence fee monies: we don’t need a BBC for that, or rather the BBC we need is a slimmed down BBC. It doesn’t need to try to be all things to all people, it can concentrate on public service and leave the commercial populist programming to the private sector.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

ITV local news was fucked over years ago and BBC local news has got worse and worse. Alot of the ITV locals are now based in shitty tin sheds on industrial estates and staffed by kids.

It's no surprise this is happening. Ofcom are the weakest willed bunch of shits you can imagine. BBC local budgets are squeezed as well and by handing money to Channel 4 will become even more squeezed (because it's always the bottom that feels the pinch, never the top).

ITV would do away with all local commitments tomorrow if it could. The way the likes of Carlton raped the entire network over 15 years ago we can't really go complaining now.

You want the moment ITV died?

I won't have any tears for the loss of regional shows on ITV. ITV died 31/12/92.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

GazChap wrote:

Don't the BBC already give a hefty chunk of their licence fee money to C4 anyway?

No.

Although I think S4C get a few quid from the BBC. Certainly a whole load of S4C shows are made at BBC Wales. In fact I've walked down the set for Pobol y Cwm at BBC Wales which I am assured is enough to make a Welshman wet himself.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Grim... wrote:

Stephen Fry made a fantastic speech about this. You can download the podcast or read it on his site.
This bit is quite telling:

Quote:

So long as the playing field is level, the market will take care of the set top boxes, the distribution systems, the digital pipelines to the audio-visual retail outlet that is the consumer’s television, while the licence fee can – if it must and likes the idea – pay for content that can’t pay for itself in the normal cut and thrust of the marketplace. And if Channel 4 wants to (or must because of its remit) make that kind of public service programme as well as Hollyoaks and The Girl Whose Breasts Talk German, then the licence fee should cover that as well. The days of the BBC as a national institution, hosting and front-ending publicly funded content are over. The mighty oak must have some of its branches lopped off to light in on the smaller trees around it. Public Service Broadcasting is now merely the management of licence fee monies: we don’t need a BBC for that, or rather the BBC we need is a slimmed down BBC. It doesn’t need to try to be all things to all people, it can concentrate on public service and leave the commercial populist programming to the private sector.

Doesn't he go one to make a point that to some extent counters that though?

It is brilliant that talk. I'll have to listen to it again.

EDIT: Indeed the very next paragraph:

Quote:

Wow! Radical. And tempting. Perhaps. Perhaps tempting. Not to me, I have to say, but then I am not Britain or an average Britain. This image of the consumer’s home as a kind of electronic bookshop, as outlined by media business guru Barry Cox, where we move from passive viewer to active consumer may seem beguiling to some, but actually we already know that model. We know it from hotel rooms and aircraft entertainment systems.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

chinnyhill10 wrote:

ITV local news was fucked over years ago and BBC local news has got worse and worse. Alot of the ITV locals are now based in shitty tin sheds on industrial estates and staffed by kids.

This would possibly explain why the West Country news on both channels is always ALL ABOUT BRISTOL, as they're based in a shed there and can't afford to send their reporters out to anywhere else in the several counties served by those two news programs. The wankers.

Mrs Chris is getting slightly fed up at me shouting "BRISTOL BRISTOL BRISTOL" every time the local news comes on but for fuck's sake. Any national news story will be covered at a local level by reference to Bristol, rather than any of the other large cities in the relevant area (Gloucester, Swindon, Bath etc). And every "local" story is about something happening in Bristol, with something as minor as a guy getting a parking ticket in Bristol taking precedence over a guy in Bath getting stabbed.

Wankers.

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 14:43

chinnyhill10 wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Don't the BBC already give a hefty chunk of their licence fee money to C4 anyway?

No.

Yeah, it is S4C. I always get the two confused.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Oh and Fry's last paragraph is a wonderful defence of the BBC to be quoted in battle forever more:

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

You know when you visit another country and you see that it spends more money on flowers for its roundabouts than we do, and you think … coo, why don’t we do that? How pretty. How pleasing. What a difference it makes. To spend money for the public good in a way that enriches, gives pleasure, improves the quality of life, that is something. That is a real achievement. It’s only flowers in a roundabout, but how wonderful. Well, we have the equivalent of flowers in the roundabout times a million: the BBC enriches the country in ways we will only discover when it has gone and it is too late to build it up again. We actually can afford the BBC, because we can’t afford not to.

Spoilered because if you should read/listen/watch anything, it's this.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 14:48

Lave wrote:

Doesn't he go one to make a point that to some extent counters that though?

Somewhat, although I got the overall feeling that he thought that would be a good idea.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Mr Chris wrote:

chinnyhill10 wrote:

ITV local news was fucked over years ago and BBC local news has got worse and worse. Alot of the ITV locals are now based in shitty tin sheds on industrial estates and staffed by kids.

This would possibly explain why the West Country news on both channels is always ALL ABOUT BRISTOL, as they're based in a shed there and can't afford to send their reporters out to anywhere else in the several counties served by those two news programs.

ITV want to do Westcountry news from Bristol but this has yet to be approved by Ofcom. At the moment I think both the BBC and ITV have small scale studios in Plymouth.

The problem with reporting is more likely to do with a lack of resources. I believe ITV Westcountry do have a number of sub-opts for the different parts of the area but I imagine there is a lack of reporters or at least an unwillingness to send them great distances.

The problem with any kind of news operation on TV or radio is that it's hard to cover large areas. The trend is to hub lots of different outlets into one larger facility. But this means the journalists and resources are even further away from the news. If you have to travel for an hour to get to somewhere then the news has probably (a) already happened or (b) you are going to be tied up for a long period of time which displeases the bosses.

Both BBC London news and ITV London news are guilty of this. Their transmissions cover nearly all of Surrey, and parts of Sussex and Kent but they rarely venture outside the M25.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

chinnyhill10 wrote:

ITV want to do Westcountry news from Bristol but this has yet to be approved by Ofcom.

Then why the fuck is *all* of the BBC and ITV local news for my area always news in Bristol?

They backdrop the BBC news with the bit of the Bristol quay outside my office, Mr-Chris-and-BBC-news-cross-over fact-fans.

Quote:

At the moment I think both the BBC and ITV have small scale studios in Plymouth. The problem with reporting is more likely to do with a lack of resources. I believe ITV Westcountry do have a number of sub-opts for the different parts of the area but I imagine there is a lack of reporters or at least an unwillingness to send them great distances.

Plymouth? Hmm - perhaps I'm talking about the wrong geographical area, then. Either the BBC or ITV one that we get is called "Points West", and serves the "north" westcountry (Somerset, Wiltshire, South Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire). The one on the other channel seems to cover the same area too.

Quote:

Both BBC London news and ITV London news are guilty of this. This transmissions cover nearly all of Surrey, and parts of Sussex and Kent but they rarely venture outside the M25.

Yeah, but in fairness fuck all happens in Surrey other than rich people wanking around on quadbikes.

Malabelm · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 15:02

Mr Chris wrote:

Yeah, but in fairness fuck all happens in Surrey other than rich people wanking around on quadbikes.

It's true. I was there a couple of weeks ago and, apart from a lad selling cherries at the side of the road, it was all :this:

And horse-riders.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Mr Chris wrote:

Plymouth? Hmm - perhaps I'm talking about the wrong geographical area, then. Either the BBC or ITV one that we get is called "Points West", and serves the "north" westcountry (Somerset, Wiltshire, South Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire). The one on the other channel seems to cover the same area too.

Ah, that's ITV West isn't it? Formally HTV West. Not Westcountry (formally TSW and Westward). ITV want to merge the two regions because they think you are all a bunch of cider drinking simpletons.

Mr Chris wrote:

Quote:

Both BBC London news and ITV London news are guilty of this. This transmissions cover nearly all of Surrey, and parts of Sussex and Kent but they rarely venture outside the M25.

Yeah, but in fairness fuck all happens in Surrey other than rich people wanking around on quadbikes.

Fairly true, but on the other hand when the Crystal Palace transmitter covers a 35 mile radius of London you'd hope they could cover something other than teenagers stabbing each other and Boris and fucking Ken. BBC London wets itself every time Boris sneezes for fucks sake.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

chinnyhill10 wrote:

Mr Chris wrote:

Plymouth? Hmm - perhaps I'm talking about the wrong geographical area, then. Either the BBC or ITV one that we get is called "Points West", and serves the "north" westcountry (Somerset, Wiltshire, South Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire). The one on the other channel seems to cover the same area too.

Ah, that's ITV West isn't it? Formally HTV West. Not Westcountry (formally TSW and Westward).

Ah, so. Soon the whole of the West Country can hear about some bloke in Bristol stubbing his toe on his amusingly shaped root vegetable. Awesomes.

Quote:

ITV want to merge the two regions because they think you are all a bunch of cider drinking simpletons.

That we are.

Chinnyhill69 wrote:

Boris and fucking Ken.

I read that as "Boris fucking Ken", which would certainly be newsworthy.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Grim... wrote:

Lave wrote:

Doesn't he go one to make a point that to some extent counters that though?

Somewhat, although I got the overall feeling that he thought that would be a good idea.

I'm not so sure, I took it to mean that his main worry was the idea of narrowcasting. High Brow shows for small audiences isn't want the BBC is about -it's about maintaining a Gold Standard Quality which is best achieved by a BBC that is somewhat focused to the Dr Whos and Eastenders that draw in an audience.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Quote:

I was asked by the BBC to make this speech, if speech is the word. They hoped I suspect, but in no way insisted, that I would fight their corner against cuts, against the slicing of the licence fee: at the very least they expected I might make a case for the public service aspects of comedy, and for its importance and for the need for it to be nurtured and fostered. I have happy to do that, not out of eternal loyalty and belief in an institution that has, as much as any school or college made me who I am, but because I genuinely cannot see that the nation would benefit from a diminution of any part of the BBC’s great whole. It should be as closely scrutinised as possible of course, value for money, due humility and all that, but to reduce its economies of scale, its artistic, social and national reach for misbegotten reasons of ideology or thrift would be a tragedy. We got here by an unusual route that stretches back to Reith. We have evolved extraordinarily, like our parliament and other institutions, such is the British way. Yes, we could cut it all down and remake ourselves in the image of Italy or Austria or some other notional modern state. We could sharpen the axe, we could cut away apparently dead wood, we could reinvent the wheel, we could succumb to the natural desires of commercial media companies. Although I have an axe to grind on this, you should understand that it is personal not professional. Actually, if licence fee slicing and other radical plans do go ahead, I do not believe it would affect my career as either performer, presenter or producer, in fact I would probably profit more from the change. It is simply that I don’t want to live in a country that emasculates the BBC. Yes, I want to see Channel 4 secure, but I don’t believe that the only way to save it is to reduce the BBC. We can afford what we decide we can afford.

But then what makes a speaker great is when they are capable of holding different ideas for a while, and explore them whilst not. at least initally, judge them all from the stand point of his conclusions. Which Fry is brilliant at - something you can forget when you see him curmudegeon away on QI - or gurn over some Posh Tea.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 15:40

Fry for Prime Minister!

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

I'd vote for him. Well, Fry for dictator, perhaps.

CUS · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 15:55

Anonymous X wrote:

ITV will be allowed to reduce news output in 18 "sub-regions"

Talk about literally adding insult to injury, eh?

I'm surprised that the county suffix isn't replaced from 'shire' to 'shitplacethatisn'tlondon'.

Anonymous X · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2046

I know. Local news on BBC and ITV is bad as it is; it's hard to find it relevant to your life if it only covers stories in places which are an hours drive away...

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

It's been allowed to stop making kids shows. It's now allowed to stop covering a lot of local news.

I hope they allow it to die to, which it inevitably will, and hopefully they'll then salt the earth.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 16:39

Why should it be forced to show stuff if it's not getting licence money?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Grim... wrote:

Why should it be forced to show stuff if it's not getting licence money?

Because it has a hugely valuable big fat slice of spectrum to itself?

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 16:46

richardgaywood wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Why should it be forced to show stuff if it's not getting licence money?

Because it has a hugely valuable big fat slice of spectrum to itself?

What, like the BBC?

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Well as condition for being given a section of finite analogue bandwidth, it had to commit to certain things 'in the public interest' - local news, childrens, religous and factual programs being the main things.

But with the coming age of digital, and even Nuts Magazine being able to have it's own channel, it seems that argument is weakened to the point of worthlessness. Even more so when they turn off terrestrial.

I just hope the government don't try to bail it out when it collapses. The gameshow rigging, lowest common denominator cesspit can die in a ditch for all I care.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 16:51

I know I don't watch much TV, but I honestly can't think of a show I'll miss that's on ITV if it does die.
People will shit if Corrie ends though, I'd imagine.

Malabelm · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 16:53

Grim... wrote:

People will shit if Corrie ends though, I'd imagine.

I won't. It'll free up about 100 hours or TV a week. Is Emmerdale ITV as well? Then all they need to do is ditch Eastenders.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

nynfortoo wrote:

Grim... wrote:

People will shit if Corrie ends though, I'd imagine.

I won't. It'll free up about 100 hours or TV a week. Is Emmerdale ITV as well? Then all they need to do is ditch Eastenders.

If nuts and manchester united can have their own channels then Corrie and Emmerdale could form their own breakaway channel if they needed too.

Actually that was just meant to be a silly joke, but it actually doesn't sound so stupid. No less stupid than Nuts magazine TV at least.

Plissken · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 16:55

ITV doesn't want to make regional and kids programmes because it is losing money. It is losing money becauses its major output is big pile of festering shit and noone wants to watch it*. Therefore, it has convinced Ofcom that in order to make more money, it needs to make more of its major output.

Can anyone with the intelligence greater that, say, the average five year old, find the flaw in this plan.

*Oh, and those Ofcom cunts caught on to the big scams we were running on quizzes. And fined us. A bit. Not all of the profits, though.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 16:59

Grim... wrote:

I know I don't watch much TV, but I honestly can't think of a show I'll miss that's on ITV if it does die.
People will shit if Corrie ends though, I'd imagine.

I genuinely haven't watched ITV for a good 10 years. Grampian Region. The only bit I vaguely remember is the quite pretty Aberdonian newsreader lady. Whom I couldn't understand anyway*.

* not actually true, for joking purposes only

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 17:01

And they'll take my FM broadcasting when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.
Seriously, do what you like with telly, it's boned anyway, but don't touch Radio 4.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

kalmar wrote:

And they'll take my FM broadcasting when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.
Seriously, do what you like with telly, it's boned anyway, but don't touch Radio 4.

Digital's got 4 and also the brilliant 6 and 7 though.

Excellent, excellent stuff.

Sir Taxalot · **Joined:** 5th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 4668

Grim... wrote:

I know I don't watch much TV, but I honestly can't think of a show I'll miss that's on ITV if it does die.
People will shit if Corrie ends though, I'd imagine.

Harry Hill's TV Burp is about all I can think of for now, and I feel that it might be close to being flogged to death. I still find it very funny, but for how much longer?

Oh, and You've Been Framed.

I like Harry Hill.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Oh shit. Harry Hill.

I might have to change my stance on Burning ITV to the Ground.

Maybe Nuts TV can get the rights?

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 17:11

Lave wrote:

kalmar wrote:

And they'll take my FM broadcasting when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.
Seriously, do what you like with telly, it's boned anyway, but don't touch Radio 4.

Digital's got 4 and also the brilliant 6 and 7 though.

Excellent, excellent stuff.

Please, convince me of this! The only thing I've heard of value so far was an episode of The Nick Revell show (repeated off Radio 4 from back when Maggie was PM, so that's aged well...) and I heard it on listen again anyway so it's of dubious value to "broadcast" all this stuff on separate "channels" AFAICS.

And you can get rid of BBC1 while you're at it. Seriously, it was a load of rubbish before I was even born, who watches it now?

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

kalmar wrote:

Lave wrote:

kalmar wrote:

And they'll take my FM broadcasting when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.
Seriously, do what you like with telly, it's boned anyway, but don't touch Radio 4.

Digital's got 4 and also the brilliant 6 and 7 though.

Excellent, excellent stuff.

Please, convince me of this! The only thing I've heard of value so far was an episode of The Nick Revell show (repeated off Radio 4 from back when Maggie was PM, so that's aged well...) and I heard it on listen again anyway so it's of dubious value to "broadcast" all this stuff on separate "channels" AFAICS.

And you can get rid of BBC1 while you're at it. Seriously, it was a load of rubbish before I was even born, who watches it now?

BBC 6: Adam and Joe and Jon Holmes make excellent radio (i.e. good indie music with bits that make you laugh inbetween).

BBC 7: Has great comedy, drama and sci-fi on it. Comedy wise it's mainly old stuff like Lee and Herring and On the Hour. It also have Dr Who audios, Random Sci-fi stories, and has just finished a fucking brilliant unabridged reading of I am Legend.

McM · **Joined:** 14th Jul, 2008 **Posts:** 60

BBC7 also runs old "I'm sorry I haven't a clue" and "News Quiz" eps too.

I love "Listen Again". As an insomniac, it's fantastic -- and it works here in the US even.

Be Excellent To Each Other

Licence fee to be 'top sliced'; ITV regional programming cut

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