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 Post subject: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:33 
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The Dr Horrible thing reminded me of something I was curious about. It's something I think you get mostly in songs from musicals maybe, but I dunno, so I'm asking in case someone knows all the proper terminology and stuff.

My favourite Chumbawamba song is one called "Song of the Mother in Debt" in which three people; The Mother, The Debt Collector and The Govenor each sing a verse. The thing is, the music stays mostly the same, but the verses are sang in completely different arrangements, if that's the right word, and they come together at the end overlapping. I like the effect a lot, and it's not something that really happens in pop music. Maybe if I thought really hard I could find an example from duets, which I think come from musicals anyway.

What I'm wondering is if there's a proper term for this form of singing, and if there are any songs like it that people recommend?

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:34 
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A fugue?

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:36 
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There's no need to swear. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:45 
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean, since I've not heard the song, but "Quartet" from the msuical 'Chess' has four distinct voices, and they do individual bits and then overlap them.

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:50 
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A bit like that South Park Dreidel song?

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:03 
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Hang on - Chumbawumba made another song?

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:06 
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myoptika wrote:
A bit like that South Park Dreidel song?


Or the end of La Resistance from the South Park Movie.


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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:14 
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Dave Grohl wrote, recorded and released the soundtrack for a film called Touch a few years back and the main song of that features this that you speak of..

Dave sings one verse, then a girl sings another, then they both repeat their verses over each other.. I like it and I have it if you'd like it.

I'm not sure if it's a fantastic example this, but it's still quite a good song... and I do like Dave Grohl a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:16 
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Mr Chris wrote:
Hang on - Chumbawumba made another song?


They got up again, after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:16 
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Also, Chumbawumba once supported my Uncle's band - TRUFAX.

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:19 
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Mr Chris wrote:
Hang on - Chumbawumba made another song?


I have it on "Uneasy Listening" which is a collection of some of their stuff, it's not new. Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far. I would have linked a youtube or something of the song but don't remember seeing one.

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:25 
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myoptika wrote:
Also, Chumbawumba once supported my Uncle's band - TRUFAX.

Your uncle has a band called TRUFAX?

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:29 
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Mr Chris wrote:
myoptika wrote:
Also, Chumbawumba once supported my Uncle's band - TRUFAX.

Your uncle has a band called TRUFAX?


If he doesn't.. he should have!


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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:32 
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AceAceBaby wrote:
Mr Chris wrote:
Hang on - Chumbawumba made another song?


I have it on "Uneasy Listening" which is a collection of some of their stuff, it's not new. Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far. I would have linked a youtube or something of the song but don't remember seeing one.

Wow. I honestly thought they were just a one hit novelty band. I take it some of their other stuff is worth listening to?

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:37 
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There's a good selection on that compilation.

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:55 
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Mr Chris wrote:
myoptika wrote:
Also, Chumbawumba once supported my Uncle's band - TRUFAX.

Your uncle has a band called TRUFAX?


Very good. Chumbawumba have actually been around for ages. My Uncle's band were called Surfin Dave and the Absent Legends, who released one album. Not particularly noteworthy in itself, but two of the band members went on to do good things. Chris Haskett joined Rollins Band and Jez Willis formed Utah Saints...

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 21:27 
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You could "Life On Mars, etc" by the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UxCj2MO02AE
or "Fly Me Off The Handal" which is closer but not as good: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OP7F8P1ZtD0


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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 22:37 
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TheVision wrote:
Dave Grohl wrote, recorded and released the soundtrack for a film called Touch a few years back and the main song of that features this that you speak of..

Dave sings one verse, then a girl sings another, then they both repeat their verses over each other.. I like it and I have it if you'd like it.


The girl was Louise Post from Veruca Salt, you philistine :hat:


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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 23:40 
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Mm*, they were dating for a while, around the time, after Veruca Salt toured with Foo Fighters around the time of their The Colour and The Shape album. VS's third album (after they basically split, with Louise keeping the name) being a slightly disturbing album about that relationship, and it's end. With lyrics about loving each other 'forever... everlong', you see. I really have no comment to make, except that it's not as good as the first two albums.

* imagine that I've joined your radio conversation recalling Veruca Salt, apologies if it's all old news or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:03 
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Indeed, Resolver's one of the more awkward listens I've had. And the strangely cloying manner Louise affects for the vocals really didn't help. I quite liked their recent 'IV' though.


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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:49 

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It's a medievel thing, they didn't have much in the way of different instrumentation, and no Fruity Loops. So they tried to do as much as possible wiht their voices (whether instrument or human) and counterpoint developed from this.

Counterpoint is canon (Pachelbel's or 'row row row your boat' being the obvious examples) and pretty much anything Bach has done adagio wise... try JS Bach's 'Air on G' from Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D (the theme from cigars) or some of Brian Wilson's vocal arrangements.

Chumbawumba though not my favourite band by any means are these days releaseing shitloads of stuff and seem to always be on tour. They exist outside the 'business' and are mainly seen at folk things, but they are BRILLIANT when just doing acapella vocal stuff, maybe youtube them?

Ah, here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQl6mfASDq8

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:11 
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If my memory serves me right, counterpoint isn't always a canon - a canon is specifically the same melody (though may be different words, if we are talking in terms of songs) started at a different point in the song. If the same words are sung, then it is a round, like Frere Jaques.

Counterpoint music may have different melodies for each part, which the Doctor Horrible musical does, but each of those sections and voices come together melodically.

from Wiki:
Quote:
In music, counterpoint is the relationship between two or more voices that are independent in contour and rhythm, and interdependent in harmony. It has been most commonly identified in Western music, developing strongly in the Renaissance, and also dominant in much of the common practice period, especially in Baroque music.


Rose Red (if you can find a good recording of it, someone seems to have recorded a recent and not very good version and I can't google it for her name being everywhere, and somehow the lyrics of this traditional song being attributed to her) is a good example. It starts of as a round canon, then two or three extra voices join in with separate verses to form a counterpoint, and when all the parts come together a good choir can make the room absolutely ring.

A fugue is also correct for many cases - there are usually, if memory serves me correctly, echoed parts in all of the individual 'roles' in a fugue, but my memory is a bit fuzzy around the technicalities of it. I probably had a hangover that day (Thursday nights at the Sugarhouse, stumbling back at 4am were followed by an 8am dance lesson across the other side of town and then a 2 hour singing lesson, the bar stewards.)

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 Post subject: Re: Music(al) question thing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 20:14 
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Hooray for knowledgable peeps. Chumbawamba are appearing at a local folk festival in September along with what looks like half a bajillion other folk acts.

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