Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.
It is currently Tue Aug 22, 2017 21:39

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:38 
User avatar
Prince of Fops

Joined: 14th May, 2009
Posts: 1373
I spied this article about Beyond Good & Evil 2.

It sounds very exciting indeed and I dearly hope it succeeds where it needs to.

But I really don't think I'm a fan of procedurally-generated spaces. I mean, what's the point? To have something endlessly playable? I don't want to play something endlessly. I want to finish something and move onto the next thing.

I want to have an experience that's been designed to be the best it can be, not that I luck out on some brill randomly-generated level. That doesn't mean I want to play something on rails (I don't particularly like Uncharted games because I feel like there's an invisible hand constantly scooching me from one encounter to the next). I love emergent gameplay such as the like you get in Far Cry (though its maps could do with being half the size and denser with meaningful locations).

I started No Man's Sky last week and after a couple of hours of admittedly intoxicating gameplay as I explored some lonely planet surfaces, mined some rocks and sheltered in my ship, I've decided that, after visiting five planets, I've already seen them all and have no need for the unlimited number on offer. I'm already looking for my next game to play, because I feel like I've seen all No Man's Sky has to offer, which is patently absurd, but there you have it.

Or am I missing the point of procedurally-generated stuff? Does it serve a purpose beyond offering the player an endless supply of different shit to go at?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:43 
User avatar
Lupine member

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48176
Location: Nottingham
It can work brilliantly if the game mechanics are designed around it (see Spelunky). Sadly however it's often used instead of good level design.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:47 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 13926
It depends on the game I think. I think it has it's uses. I like that in Minecraft you can change the seed and that's your world and nobody else's. Or in the new Dirt 4 Rally game it can procedurally generate new stages. This works well because otherwise you start to learn the courses and stop listening to the notes until it stops being a rally game.

I think No Man's Sky could have worked really well too with a bigger budget and more time in order to place a lot more interesting things to spawn within the worlds so that you don't feel as though you've seen anything as quickly as you do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:47 
User avatar
Prince of Fops

Joined: 14th May, 2009
Posts: 1373
Lonewolves wrote:
It can work brilliantly if the game mechanics are designed around it (see Spelunky). Sadly however it's often used instead of good level design.


I did wonder if laziness/"efficiencies" are a reason for its implementation.

Back to BG&E2 - I just watched the announcment video on that page. It looks incredible. But it sounds horrible. Why are they all effing and blinding? BG&E was by no means a kids game, but had a charmingly odd tone to it that was definitely PG rather than 15. This feels like its borrowing dialogue from Far Cry or GTA.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:49 
User avatar
Comfortably Dumb

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 9596
Location: Sunny Stoke
Lonewolves wrote:
It can work brilliantly if the game mechanics are designed around it (see Spelunky). Sadly however it's often used instead of good level design.


:this: It works well in Binding of Isaac, as that's not a deep game and intended for quick playthroughs and multiple replays. I was about to mention the old Saturn game, Virtual Hydlide of a game that did it badly, but in double-checking my facts, I found this -

Quote:
A different game world is generated each time a new game is started. However, instead of traditional random dungeons, the developers of Virtual Hydlide actually designed more than 20 different level maps for each of the seven dungeons, as well as more than 20 different maps for the overworld. When starting a new game, the maps for the dungeons and overworld are randomly selected from their designated level sets. Thus, though every dungeon design was created by a human designer rather than a random level generator, there are more than 25 billion possible game worlds. Moreover, each game world is identified with an alphabetic code which may be entered when starting a new game, allowing players to replay favorite level designs or compete for high scores on identical worlds. However, non-boss enemies do not appear in set locations, and continuously respawn in randomly determined locations.


So, not procedurally-generated at all.. turns out it was just a crap game. :)

_________________
Consolemad | Under Logic
Curse, the day is long
Realise you don't belong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:59 
User avatar
Lord Humongous

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 42367
Location: The erogenous zone
Lonewolves wrote:
It can work brilliantly if the game mechanics are designed around it (see Spelunky). Sadly however it's often used instead of good level design.

Your face is procedurally generated.

On a low budget.

_________________
Flickr Behance Discogs

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:06 
User avatar
Bad Girl

Joined: 20th Apr, 2008
Posts: 10346
Rogue Legacy (which is great), Nuclear Throne (which is AMAZE) and Enter the Gungeon (also fab) are also examples of how procedurally generated worlds can keep the gameplay fresh.

These games would be easier to complete and far far less interesting on multiple playthroughs without the rogue elements. There are players out there that have hundreds of hours playing these games. They wouldn't do this unless the repeat experience was any good.

I've got doubt in my mind that decent procedural generation is not easy or "lazy" to implement either. I bet it's bloody difficult to program effectively whereas creating a few static levels might be the quicker alternative but make for a much less interesting and more disposable experience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:12 
User avatar
Bad Girl

Joined: 20th Apr, 2008
Posts: 10346
Also, the games I've mentioned above all have endings (and multiple endings too) so you can complete them and move on when you've had your fill.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:37 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 13022
Not really touched upon in the wikipedia article but one of the first procedural generated games I came across was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven ... video_game)

By default you started with a fairly plain 'real world' map , however there was a generation tool and you put in a blank disk and it made a whole new map for you which would be different to everyone else

http://procedural-generation.tumblr.com ... ned-by-the

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 15:02 
User avatar
Rude Belittler

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 4123
My thoughts on randomly generated levels: fuck off.

I mean, how do you know if you're getting better, or just getting lucky?

I don't think I've ever played one of those type games that I actually enjoyed*, so the whole idea can gerrinbin as far as I'm concerned.

*I hated Spelunky and Binding of Isaac before anyone says anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Procedurally generated
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 15:04 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 13926
If you keep getting luckier then you're probably getting better.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Vogons and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.