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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:23 
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From the BBC

Quote:
The DUP are pro-union (not Europe but UK), pro-Brexit and socially conservative.
The party, which returned 10 MPs to Westminster, has garnered a reputation for its strong, sometimes controversial views.
It opposes same-sex marriage and is anti-abortion - abortion remains illegal in Northern Ireland, except in specific medical cases.
One MP is a devout climate change denier, while a former MP once called for creationism - the belief that human life did not evolve over millions of years but was created by God - to be taught alongside evolution in science classes.


Worse than UKIP! Still, May can look forward to better relations with Trump now she has these nutters on board.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:32 
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Gogmagog

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Chris Leslie, former shadow chancellor said on today (lifted from Graun):

Quote:
There’s fantastic results … but the Conservatives got 318 seats; that means they’re going to be able to form a government.

We haven’t won that election. He [Corbyn] did very well in some areas … but I come back to the point: we haven’t won that election. We shouldn’t pretend this is a famous victory.

Five years of a Conservative government: I can’t, I’m afraid, be a cheerleader for that outcome.


And he is right, Labour are still in opposition, which'll keep Momentum happy, and I fear the Tory government will get stronger as we start a new chapter of Corbyn mishaps. I think it's great to laugh, and take the piss out of what turns out to be dreadful decisions by May, but, she's still top dog. We shouldn't be cheering second place quite so loudly. As Dom says in the philosophical 4 acts of The Fast and the Furious "It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning" and Labour hasn't won.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:49 
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SavyGamer

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On what planet will this government survive five years.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:58 
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I don't think they will but I also am not totally convinced that Labour can win an outright majority either. Either way I don't envy the task of anyone trying to plot their way forward with this electorate. It seems a bit like trying to second guess the whims and moods of a fucking toddler. They whined and whined and got their precious Brexit but now that toy is just sat in the corner taking up space, but they'd still throw an absolute shit fit if you tried to throw it away.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:16 
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Gogmagog

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We accept that May was weak prior to calling the election, and got weaker as the campaign wore on. Her replacement will be stronger, and much better organised.

Corbyn started off weak, bit seemed to get stronger in the final furlongs. But, that's relative to a Conservative campaign described as a "pig's ear".

A massive turnout, which helped Labour, probably won't rematerialise a second time, and the SNP are settling in their normalised seat numbers. The Tory party can regroup, replan and come back stronger. Labour won't.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:31 
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MaliA wrote:
We accept that May was weak prior to calling the election, and got weaker as the campaign wore on. Her replacement will be stronger, and much better organised.

Corbyn started off weak, bit seemed to get stronger in the final furlongs. But, that's relative to a Conservative campaign described as a "pig's ear".

A massive turnout, which helped Labour, probably won't rematerialise a second time, and the SNP are settling in their normalised seat numbers. The Tory party can regroup, replan and come back stronger. Labour won't.


That's one way it could pan out, or alternatively the PLP could now get behind Corbyn and a proper left wing agenda, sort out the front benches with some competent performers, and build on the momentum (no pun intended) they've gathered at this election, and start to think about who they want their next leader to be.

The Tory base is old and literally dying, Labour has energised a new generation of voters, and history shows that once people are politically engaged, they stay so.

A very smart move for Corbyn now IMO would be to reach out to the Blairite wing of the party, and get some of those faces in his shadow cabinet. He's proven that there's a hunger for a real alternative in politics, and that simply fighting over the ever-shifting centre ground isn't the only way, that's a MASSIVE thing as prior to this election that had become pretty much accepted wisdom.

Look at what Corbyn achieved at this election in the face of overwhelming hostility from so many quarters, not least from within his own party. (As I noted back on Page 2 of this thread, imagine how this might have panned out if the party had been united from the start.)

May is a lame duck prime minister heading up a lame duck government that's literally going to be propped up by fucking lunatics.

I fancy Labour's chances at the next election.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:34 
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Lol.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/0 ... nt=Article

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:37 
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Lupine member

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MaliA wrote:
Chris Leslie, former shadow chancellor said on today (lifted from Graun):

Quote:
There’s fantastic results … but the Conservatives got 318 seats; that means they’re going to be able to form a government.

We haven’t won that election. He [Corbyn] did very well in some areas … but I come back to the point: we haven’t won that election. We shouldn’t pretend this is a famous victory.

Five years of a Conservative government: I can’t, I’m afraid, be a cheerleader for that outcome.


And he is right, Labour are still in opposition, which'll keep Momentum happy, and I fear the Tory government will get stronger as we start a new chapter of Corbyn mishaps. I think it's great to laugh, and take the piss out of what turns out to be dreadful decisions by May, but, she's still top dog. We shouldn't be cheering second place quite so loudly. As Dom says in the philosophical 4 acts of The Fast and the Furious "It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning" and Labour hasn't won.

You have to place it in context I think. It was a big swing towards Labour. They overly defended safe seats because they were worried of getting destroyed due to the inaccurate polls. They gained 3 million more votes than in 2015. This was against a backdrop of huge opposition from the media and Corbyn's own party.

This government won't last 5 years - minority ones last months at best historically. And when there's another GE Labour will feel emboldened enough to go on the attack in marginals next time rather than defending safe seats. Some of the majorities they increased in those (including Chris Leslie's/my constituency) was ridiculous.

But if they want to win, people like Leslie need to support the current leadership team rather than actively work against it like they have for the last two years.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:06 
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Reading how the power-sharing executive is currently vacant and only works in NI if you have a neutral UK govt. The other option is Direct Rule which no one will want either. So basically it appears TM is willing to let peace in NI go to hell in a hand basket just to cling onto power.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:26 
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Great piece here. One of the best things about this election IMO is that the power of the rightwing press is massively diminished, they chucked EVERYTHING at Corbyn, the vilest abuse and lies, and it didn't work.

Fuck The Mail and fuck Paul Dacre.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ail-labour

Quote:
The Mail sells its world of pain based on fear. The attack it tried to sustain over a panicked 13 pages just looked hyperbolic. Instead, the warnings about Labour became ignorable rages. With May refusing to engage, unable to be spontaneous, Corbyn often just appeared pleasant and bemused. Having destroyed Ed Miliband, the tabloids took it for granted it could be done again with a few key words. Tax. Extremist. Terrorist.

The world has moved on. This is not only the end of austerity, it is surely the end of the hankering for Thatcherism that is still the lifeblood of the men who run these papers.

It matters significantly now that they are out of touch. It matters that their relentless negativity did not chime. In this one moment they are cut down to size: not fixers of government, not the high priests of the electorate but strange angry blokes selling seven varieties of hate while ranting to themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:50 
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Gogmagog

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MaliA wrote:
Chris Leslie, former shadow chancellor said on today (lifted from Graun):

Quote:
There’s fantastic results … but the Conservatives got 318 seats; that means they’re going to be able to form a government.

We haven’t won that election. He [Corbyn] did very well in some areas … but I come back to the point: we haven’t won that election. We shouldn’t pretend this is a famous victory.

Five years of a Conservative government: I can’t, I’m afraid, be a cheerleader for that outcome.


And he is right, Labour are still in opposition, which'll keep Momentum happy, and I fear the Tory government will get stronger as we start a new chapter of Corbyn mishaps. I think it's great to laugh, and take the piss out of what turns out to be dreadful decisions by May, but, she's still top dog. We shouldn't be cheering second place quite so loudly. As Dom says in the philosophical 4 acts of The Fast and the Furious "It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning" and Labour hasn't won.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -open-goal

He mentions credibility, which is a hard currency with McDonnel, Abbott and Gardiner in high profule roles in the shadow cabinet. The only one with credibility is Starmer, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:44 
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SavyGamer

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The gutter press have less influence because young people don't just believe everything they read. No doubt in part due to being brought up on the internet.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 13:29 
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LewieP wrote:
The gutter press have less influence because young people don't just believe everything they read. No doubt in part due to being brought up on the internet.

I don't believe you


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 21:50 
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MaliA wrote:
He mentions credibility, which is a hard currency with McDonnel, Abbott and Gardiner in high profule roles in the shadow cabinet. The only one with credibility is Starmer, I think.


Definitely an important issue, but the Tories ought to be there for the taking on that front - they've got... no one. Previously I've always grudgingly respected the kind of 'listen to no one maintain image of power and control' strength tories projected, even the 'softer' ones like Howe, never mind Heseltine, or even the more toxic ones like Archer or Parkinson. But now? Hunt has alienated half the NHS, Grayling screwed the NHS and doesn't understand his current job (to quote Moneybox's Paul Lewis, Grayling was either lying or doesn't understand present care home rules, Leadsom has become invisible (bit of a theme, that) but is in charge of climate change policy, Johnson and disgraced former minister Fox are economical with the truth and safe pair of libertarian crazy hands Davies seems to have gone a bit mad. Labour's talent has absented itself but exists. The Tories had better hope they have a lot of clever people tucked away on the back benches or they're in serious trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:23 
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A delightful excoriation in The Observer today.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ay-debacle

Between May and Cameron it's almost impossible to overstate how much damage the 'natural party of government' have done to this country, and I think the British people now see the Tories for what they are.

I'm calling it now, Labour will win the next election.

Quote:
One of May’s most prominent attacks on Labour was that a vote for Corbyn was a vote for a coalition of chaos. There is a terrible irony in the fact it is now May who will be forced to rely on an agreement with the DUP in order to govern. Members of a party rooted in conservative Christianity, the DUP’s MPs are some of the most reactionary, socially illiberal voices in parliament. Anti-gay marriage and anti-abortion, the party counts creationists and climate change deniers within its ranks. Any alliance with the DUP would be at odds with efforts by Conservatives to shed their image as the nasty party.

May finds herself in an impossible position. She must respond to the electorate’s rejection of austerity and hard Brexit. There are moderates in her party who will demand it of her. But those to the right of her will try to prevent her from doing so. This election result calls for a far more open style of governing. There is a need to build a coalition in the Commons for a Brexit deal that puts Britain’s economic prosperity first: the obvious arrangement would be continued membership of the single market. Yvette Cooper’s proposal for Brexit talks to be led by a cross-party commission with the Brexit secretary at the helm deserves consideration.

Discredited, humiliated, diminished: May has lost credibility and leverage in her party, her country and across Europe. Where there was respect, there is ridicule; where there was strength, there is weakness; where there was self-assurance, there is doubt. She looks too weak to deliver her manifesto, too vulnerable to tackle dissent and too enfeebled to lead Britain. It is impossible to see her having the influence, authority or credibility to serve her country.


EDIT - Rawnsley's piece is splendid, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... d-no-power

Quote:
In the time left to her, Mrs May’s fate is to flicker on in Downing Street, dead but not quite buried. She is in office, but not in power. She will not be able to impose her will on government, never mind the country. Britain has a zombie prime minister.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:31 
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I've noticed few times that the Tories have referred to themselves as "The Conservative and Unionist Party"

Is this to placate the mobilised Celts?


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:39 
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I think I am going to sit back and watch this shit show unfold, as if it didn't have abjectly terrifying consequences, it'd be hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:50 
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DavPaz wrote:
I've noticed few times that the Tories have referred to themselves as "The Conservative and Unionist Party"

Is this to placate the mobilised Celts?


Yes, they've been emphasising their full title a lot since the indyref to catch the non-SNP vote even though the '& Unionist' bit originally related to Ireland.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:09 
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MaliA wrote:
I think I am going to sit back and watch this shit show unfold, as if it didn't have abjectly terrifying consequences, it'd be hilarious.


Oh, it's brilliant. You could almost film a cinematic trilogy, starting with Cameron in 2010 and ending at 22:01 on 5th May 2015, then the referendum farce and his defenestration, then ending on the premiership of Mrs May. I'd totally watch that.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:13 
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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:14 
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Watching House of Cards Season 5 was a lot scarier this year.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:27 
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Mr Russell wrote:
Watching House of Cards Season 5 was a lot scarier this year.

And yet a lot less shocking, as I felt I'd seen so much of it play out with Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:30 
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Thankfully every single character in House of Cards seems a lot more intelligent and capable than any of Trump's lot, though.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:33 
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I feel like rewatching The New Statesman. I reckon Alan B'stard would be more likeable than Teresa May


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:47 
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Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I think I am going to sit back and watch this shit show unfold, as if it didn't have abjectly terrifying consequences, it'd be hilarious.


Oh, it's brilliant. You could almost film a cinematic trilogy, starting with Cameron in 2010 and ending at 22:01 on 5th May 2015, then the referendum farce and his defenestration, then ending on the premiership of Mrs May. I'd totally watch that.


Starring Mr Chris as John McDonnel, Cavey as Dennis Skinner, MaliA as George Osbourne, Cras as David Cameron and Myp as Bing.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:48 
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MaliA wrote:
Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I think I am going to sit back and watch this shit show unfold, as if it didn't have abjectly terrifying consequences, it'd be hilarious.


Oh, it's brilliant. You could almost film a cinematic trilogy, starting with Cameron in 2010 and ending at 22:01 on 5th May 2015, then the referendum farce and his defenestration, then ending on the premiership of Mrs May. I'd totally watch that.


Starring Mr Chris as John McDonnel,

I will cut you.

Quote:
Myp as Bing.

What, the crap search engine no one uses?

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:56 
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Gogmagog

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No, the cartoon Rabbit in dungarees

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:12 
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Could you BE anymore insulting?


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:16 
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Good work.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2017
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:21 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Could you BE anymore insulting?


At least he didn't call you malicool.

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