Be Excellent To Each Other

I'm at the polling station, 3rd in line, counting down to DEMOCRACY

Voted. I was seventh in the queue.

[Insert Hogarth photo here]

Russell and I always used to try to get first in line and then have breakfast out before arriving to work at 8, but I'm going at a more relaxed pace today and Darwin and I will have a toddle down to the polling station after breakfast and once we are both fully dressed for the weather

I like the idea of an election breakfast. The pub opposite the usual polling station doesn't open until noon, alas, and stopped serving food recently.

And I will be voting after work to do my bit.

I genuinely think voting should be mandatory; perhaps they should have postal ballots by default.

Ah, here it is:

North-east Oxfordshire, this morning:


Some background on these paintings:
History Today
Wikipedia

I postal voted for the first time this year. It's great. However, all that faffing with sticking one section in Envelope A, another in Envelope B, ensuring the right bit is showing through the envelope panel, and then getting the correct envelope in the other envelope, without covering up the correct address. I genuinely think that level of intellectual gymnastics would be beyond large swathes of our country.

We live in a free democracy where people are free to vote for whom they choose (or not). Forced voting is authoritarianism that I would not support.

I didn't know any of that, having never voted by post, but it does sound more complicated than it needs to be.

Even if under such a system there would be a None Of The Above and/or Refuse To Vote option?

Not in Bradford

I'm more worried about the risk to the secrecy of the ballot that goes with postal voting. Being able to vote in a booth, by yourself, is the only way we can know you're doing so freely and without intimidation.

I understand the point of mandatory voting, but I'm against it because I think it's a civic duty you should do willingly.

Yeah, that's definitely one problem with postal or internet voting, how to ensure that everyone actually gets to make their own choice.

Oh, christ. I agree with myp.

The realistic outcome of a non-forced voting system however is that the country's future is decided by selfish narrow-minded old people, because they're the ones that turn out.

They should hold the election in the winter, on a Saturday.

I'd be up for weekend voting. Or at the very least make it a bank holiday.

Pollsters call it 'Shy Myppism'

On the other hand, in a forced voting system (which I don't support, in shock "agrees with myp" news) what's to say that the young wouldn't just turn out but spoil their ballot/refuse to vote/vote none of the above or whatever in protest to being forced to vote?

Don't feel shy agreeing with me! I'm brilliant

I drove past a polling station this morning (not in my constituency) and who I can only assume was the Lib Dem candidate (or a supporter, at least) was stood outside the polling station - directly outside the entrance - wearing a yellow rosette.

I thought wearing political symbols etc. like that was illegal when in/outside a polling station on election day?

Well that's the idea, but at least then you have an idea of how many people are actively disengaged with politics rather than passively disengaged.

What do people reckon then? I reckon that the Tories will gain about 30 seats or so.

I think they can't enter the station itself but they can be outside so long as they're not blocking it. Which reminds me: remember you are not obliged to give your electoral number to anyone outside.

Tory majority of 50-60ish.

But, as I said last night, that's better than not voting at all.

At least when you spoil your paper (although it's not something I personally agree with, surely there is always a "least worst" candidate?) you're saying "everything sucks, you don't represent me!" - when you don't show up you're saying "I'm a lazy apathetic twat".

Tory majority of 50+

Spoiling your ballot is an utter waste of time. I know we talk about this every time, but they are never counted as part of official statistics. So those writing 'none of the above' protest votes are treated in the same way as someone accidentally crossing two candidates.

But whatever makes you feel good, I guess.

Under the current system, yes.

Are the #usepens twats active this year?

Hung Parliament

/Blind Optimism

Hung parliament, leading to civil disturbances, rioting, civil war, paramilitary death squads and Britain ending up as a barren, burnt out, poisoned wasteland.

I'd like a hung parliament, a multi-party push for a decent voting system, and politicians being realistic and honest to the public about Brexit. I'd also like to teach the world to sing.

Yes, but mustn't grumble.

It's certainly interesting, I wonder if there aren't perhaps going to be more than a few shy defectors out there. I was talking to my dad who's 80 and he's said that he's spoken to a couple of people who were lifelong Tory voters who had said that this time around they'd be voting Labour. I think that if they hadn't fucked up the NHS and then announced the dementia tax that it would be an absolute landslide.

I think even with the NHS cuts, the school cuts, the local services cuts, the police cuts, the dementia tax, the U-turns on everything, the human rights act scrapping etc the Tories will still up their majority by around 20 seats.

Mrs May's weaknesses as a political leader have come to the fore in a way I didn't expect. That won't bode well for her long-term political future.

I sometimes wonder if some kind of demographic weighting could improve the democratic process, whereby your vote was multiplied by a certain proportion designed to eliminate disproportionate power in the hands of groups by age, gender, ethnicity etc.

I doubt it could be perfectly implemented, but it could result in a vote outcome that is more representative of the population as a whole, not just those who vote.

Edit: PR would obviously be better than FPTP too.

Edit2: and I don't think it will happen any time soon, but eventually I think Labour should push for PR. It wouldn't benefit Labour so much, but it would benefit the Left as a whole.

I've seen a few but it's mostly piss-taking.

Sadly, this has the potential to go wrong very quickly, as the legacy of Jim Crow reminds us.

I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that some people are more equal than others. Otherwise, we might as well go back to only landowners having the vote. Heck, at the start of WW1 only 60% of males, and 0% of females, had the franchise.

EDIT: strikeout because I shouldn't feel sad about this.

That's a terrible idea.

I think LewieP might have something in mind akin to the Irish Senate, elected by various 'vocational panels' composed of organisations representing different elements of society.

Of course, until 1950 I'd have had an additional vote for a university seat.

Could you expand on this? See, I'm sure I almost black out when I get there, because I'm always confused to what's happened. I've spoken to Russell about it before, but I always think they've taken my card, then given me my voting slip, written down my voting slip number next to my name and made a note of my register number, which Russell has said can't be right. Russell, when you go tonight can you just pay attention to what they actually do, as they distracted me today talking about dinosaurs.

Oh, and today they said there's new rules where they tear up your polling card and you are obliged to take it back with you (which I guess is yo prevent election fraud, though I'm not sure how that is abu use if you don't take your card with you)

"A whole count of each free person, and 2/3 of all other persons"?

When the precedent is slavery, I'm not convinced it's something people would go for...

You go into the polling station, the official asks for your address and name, and issues you with a ballot form. See: https://www.yourvotematters.co.uk/how-d ... -in-person.

People outside the polling station, called 'tellers', are party activists checking their lists to see who's voted so they can decide where to mobilise their get-out-the-vote campaigns.
If anyone makes you feel unhappy or unsafe in or around the polling station, find an official and tell them.First time I voted I felt very uncomfortable going in and going out but these days I just walk straight past the party people and don't make eye contact.

So, here's my solutions (not entirely serious that these are workable or the right thing, but I'm chucking them out there):

1) Minimum voting age is 18, disproportionately caring for the interests of the older end of the population. Make the maximum voting age -18 years the average mortality age.

2) Let parents vote by proxy for their children.

Of course they don't work, but meh, today I wish they did.

I reckon the Tories gain 48 seats.

Ah, no, these aren't people outside, these are the people behind the desk that issue the ballot paper, that cross your name off of the list. I just wanted to know what the number is that they write down.

Nobody outside the polling station has ever asked my number. I think the only guy there is a security guard

Very friendly, smiley person outside Whitstable's polling station this morning, and whoever she represents I'm happy to give my number - it's either 'oh arse, not one of ours' or 'good, don't need to knock there later, then'. It ought to help your party but not actually help the other. I suppose you could game it by promising (say) the Tories your vote, then not telling them you've voted, and hoping they waste time chasing you later.

I have not given info before, but either because I didn't understand what they wanted - they don't say - or because I didn't want to drop down the queue. Not a problem at 8.15. No one else there.