Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 230 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 14:07 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49136
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
Grim... wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
It's going to be awesome 'brake checking' driverless cars.

They'll just stop ?:|

Yes.

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 14:08 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16557
Just like normal cars, unless you're at the wheel.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 14:09 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48642
Location: Cheshire
markg wrote:
I guess you'd need to be a bit careful though. Anything you do to one of them and it'll probably just file a Police report with reams of data. In fact they're going to be a fucking wet dream for the security services. The entire road network filled with 360 degree CCTV cameras.


There was that Ford Fiesta in Ireland that shopped is driver for drink driving to the fiveoh.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 14:23 
User avatar
Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13382
This is one of the main problems with them sharing roads with cars driven by humans in any significant numbers, they're preposterously easy to 'bully'.

I can envisage all sorts of shenanigans when the split is maybe 10/90 between driverless and human-controlled cars. TBH I can see them just having to make 'driverless only' zones or something like that, where the existing congestion charge zone is, that type of thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 14:51 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14144
Location: Shropshire, UK
No more so than human driven cars. You get the odd cunt, certainly, but most people just want to get where they're going as quickly and/or as easily as possible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 15:13 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16557
They just need the odd random ones with road rage AI, they'll hunt you down like that trucker in Duel if you fuck with them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 17:15 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32619
How mysteriously timely

http://fortune.com/2017/11/07/google-wa ... iving-car/

Quote:
Waymo, the former self-driving project that spun out to become a business under Google parent company Alphabet, has become the first company to deploy fully autonomous vehicles on public roads without a driver behind the wheel.

About 100 of the company’s self-driving Chrysler Pacifica minivans are now driving around Chandler, a suburb of Phoenix, without a human test driver—a move that catapults Waymo ahead of its competitors. Waymo has been testing the self-driving Chrysler Pacifica minivans on public roads in Chandler since 2016. But the vehicles have always had a human test driver behind the wheel.

Waymo CEO John Krafick shared the company’s milestone during a speech at the Lisbon Web Summit.

For now, these fully self-driving minivans—sans human test driver—are limited to a defined “geo-fenced” area. This means the vehicles can only drive in a specific geographic area. The self-driving cars are completing all aspects of driving however, such as the more complicated left-hand turns.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 17:51 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48642
Location: Cheshire
Driverless lorry racing would be amazing.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 17:52 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
Oh shit, that's huge.

[edit] @ Gaywood

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 18:31 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49136
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
Get to the driverless lorries thread.

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 18:42 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49232
Am I right in saying that in the US there's a shit load of municipal control over this stuff? Like, they can persuade the mayor of a town to let them run their cars there, and that's pretty much it. There's not all that much in the way of state and federal driving laws

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 18:07 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49232
Phillip Hammond to announce legislation for driverless cars in the UK by 2021 in the budget.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... nouncement

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:01 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17019
Location: Parts unknown
I drove in a driverless car today.. Albeit with a joystick as it was set to manual mode. The joystick was just like an Atari joystick so it was quite fun.

The first picture is of the automated vehicle being forklifted away as it malfunctioned and wouldn't release the brake.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:00 
User avatar
Prince of Fops

Joined: 14th May, 2009
Posts: 4299
Welcome, Agent Vision!


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:55 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17019
Location: Parts unknown
Amazing! I knew it looked familiar. Good work.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 17:28 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32619
#ftag=COS-05-10aaa0j">https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/waym ... 05-10aaa0j

Quote:
Waymo and Fiat Chrysler announced on Tuesday that the automaker will supply the Google spinoff with "thousands" of Chrysler Pacifica minivans in order to swell its fleet of self-driving cars sufficiently ahead of any service rollout.

As of right now, Waymo has a fleet of 600 Pacificas, so this announcement marks a serious jump forward. Waymo receives the minivans from FCA, and it then outfits them with the hardware and software required to enable SAE Level 4 autonomy, which means a driver is not required as a failsafe in certain modes.

The AV developer intends to launch a single driverless pilot program in Phoenix this year, but the minivans aren't for that city alone. Instead, it's thinking about expanding the program and preparing to launch similar programs in other locations.

"With the world's first fleet of fully self-driving vehicles on the road, we've moved from research and development to operations and deployment," said Waymo CEO John Krafcik in a statement. "The Pacifica Hybrid minivans offer a versatile interior and a comfortable ride experience, and these additional vehicles will help us scale."
Onwards we go.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 18:21 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55716
Location: California
This may set them back a bit:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ssion=true

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 18:24 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49232
Ouch

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 18:40 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
Cras wrote:
Ouch

\
Unidentified Lady from Tempe, AZ

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:53 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32619
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/ar ... 765481.php

Quote:
The self-driving Volvo SUV was outfitted with at least two video cameras, one facing forward toward the street, the other focused inside the car on the driver, Moir said in an interview.

From viewing the videos, “it’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Moir said. The police have not released the videos.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:27 
Awesome
User avatar
Yes

Joined: 6th Apr, 2008
Posts: 12243
Now imagine the article for a human controlled car.
"Yet another death from a human controlled car, time to ban them."

Only one death is amazing.

_________________
Always proof read carefully in case you any words out


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:31 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
Presumably they can do the maths now, right? As in "AI driven cars have killed one person per X miles, compared to I driven cars which kill one person per Y miles".

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:50 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38460
So a woman ran straight out into the road unexpectedly? I assume that the car did react, but not in time, right?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:00 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16557
The article said that it made no attempt to brake but presumably this would have been after the collision anyway. Although these Uber things don't seem to be the best example of self-driving cars, requiring a lot of human intervention.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:29 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48642
Location: Cheshire
markg wrote:
The article said that it made no attempt to brake but presumably this would have been after the collision anyway. Although these Uber things don't seem to be the best example of self-driving cars, requiring a lot of human intervention.


Yeah, it's the desire of firms to get new cars means they develop absolute shit. For £2500 they could get a decent second hand car to use as a minicab that won't kill pedestrians and keep the tin foil hatters away.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:00 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14144
Location: Shropshire, UK
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
From viewing the videos, “it’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Moir said. The police have not released the videos.

Even if this were the case, I thought self-driving cars were loaded with RADAR/LIDAR sensors (or whatever they use) precisely so that they can detect objects in the path of and around the vehicle even in situations where they may not be visible to a camera/human eye?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:16 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
Mabye, but maybe the conclusion it came to is "I'm going to hit her."

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:55 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14144
Location: Shropshire, UK
Grim... wrote:
Mabye, but maybe the conclusion it came to is "I'm going to hit her."

Can't decide if you mean "I can't stop in time" or "Fuck this person in particular."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:30 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
Giphy "why not both?":
https://media3.giphy.com/media/bjMJ1xE8FqPJe/giphy-loop.mp4

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:33 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32619
Grim... wrote:
Presumably they can do the maths now, right? As in "AI driven cars have killed one person per X miles, compared to I driven cars which kill one person per Y miles".

This is dubious as fuck, but here goes: from here:

Quote:
In 2016, 37,461 people died in traffic-related accidents in the United States, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. That amounts to 1.18 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled in 2016. Waymo, which has been testing autonomous vehicles on public roads since 2009 when it was Google’s self-driving car project, has said its cars have driven more than 5 million miles while Uber’s cars have covered 3 million miles.


So human-driven vehicles result in 1.18 fatalities / 100 million miles, self-driven vehicles (with human supervision) now equate to 12.5 fatalities / 100 million miles. Although that's statistically pretty dubious, as I say, that's where the data stands today.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 13:28 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55716
Location: California
We need more driverless car fatalities or a billion more autonomous car miles to be sure.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 14:15 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16557
Those figures lump all driverless cars together, though. Which you'd have to assume is something google/waymo would take exception to. They seem to be ahead of the Uber ones with their technology and haven't even killed anybody at all. Although to get figures on safety you would really need to know whether in any of those occasions where the human had to take over it might otherwise have been a really bad crash.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 15:11 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
And the other way around too, though.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 17:41 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
"The self-driving vehicle was doing 38MPH in a 35MPH zone, we're told. "
Ruh-roh

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:24 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14144
Location: Shropshire, UK
I wonder if they were just reading off the instrument cluster though rather than it being a GPS-based speed reading.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 13:45 
User avatar
Comfortably Dumb

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 12034
Location: Sunny Stoke
DavPaz wrote:
So a woman ran straight out into the road unexpectedly? I assume that the car did react, but not in time, right?


I see that the video has been release of the crash (not all of it, obviously)

_________________
Consolemad | Under Logic
Curse, the day is long
Realise you don't belong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 13:55 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
Oh man, I think it should have avoided her.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 14:00 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16557
Definitely, whatever shitty camera that is has terrible low light performance and resolution. It was a lit road she would have been visible long before she appears in the video.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 14:00 
User avatar
Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13382
Grim... wrote:
Oh man, I think it should have avoided her.


Or at least reacted in some way, it didn't brake or swerve or anything.

I think a competent human driver would have made a much better job of it than that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 14:15 
User avatar
INFINITE POWAH

Joined: 1st Apr, 2008
Posts: 30498
I welcome our drunk driving robot overlords.

Jesus.

_________________
http://www.thehomeofawesome.com/
Eagles soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 14:16 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38460
That is inexcusable. Back to the drawing board, egg heads.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 14:42 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55716
Location: California
MrChris wrote:
I welcome our drunk driving speeding robot overlords.

Fixed.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 14:43 
User avatar
Heavy Metal Tough Guy

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 6509
I imagine all the questions about legal liability and so on that everyone had are about to come to a pretty significant head.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 14:46 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55716
Location: California
Still better than some human Uber drivers I've seen though.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 14:55 
User avatar
Prince of Fops

Joined: 14th May, 2009
Posts: 4299
I mean, I didn't want to mention it as it feels harsh, but what the fuck is that sat behind the wheel of the car in the video.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:05 
User avatar
INFINITE POWAH

Joined: 1st Apr, 2008
Posts: 30498
Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I welcome our drunk driving speeding robot overlords.

Fixed.

Ha, yes, good point. :)

The accidents per mile thing looks very bad for Uber there. It also casts a bit of doubt over the utility of having a meatpuppet in the front seat waiting to take over when the robot overlord gets sleepy.

_________________
http://www.thehomeofawesome.com/
Eagles soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 0:33 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32619
markg wrote:
Those figures lump all driverless cars together, though. Which you'd have to assume is something google/waymo would take exception to. They seem to be ahead of the Uber ones with their technology and haven't even killed anybody at all. Although to get figures on safety you would really need to know whether in any of those occasions where the human had to take over it might otherwise have been a really bad crash.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/tech ... izona.html

Quote:
Uber’s robotic vehicle project was not living up to expectations months before a self-driving car operated by the company struck and killed a woman in Tempe, Ariz.

The cars were having trouble driving through construction zones and next to tall vehicles, like big rigs. And Uber’s human drivers had to intervene far more frequently than the drivers of competing autonomous car projects.

Waymo, formerly the self-driving car project of Google, said that in tests on roads in California last year, its cars went an average of nearly 5,600 miles before the driver had to take control from the computer to steer out of trouble. As of March, Uber was struggling to meet its target of 13 miles per “intervention” in Arizona, according to 100 pages of company documents obtained by The New York Times and two people familiar with the company’s operations in the Phoenix area but not permitted to speak publicly about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:44 
User avatar
Comfortably Dumb

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 12034
Location: Sunny Stoke
Findus Fop wrote:
I mean, I didn't want to mention it as it feels harsh, but what the fuck is that sat behind the wheel of the car in the video.


A 'The Voice' watcher, apparently

(although I had to double-check it was the same incident as I thought from the dashcam footage that it was a bloke.. oops)

_________________
Consolemad | Under Logic
Curse, the day is long
Realise you don't belong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:51 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48642
Location: Cheshire
"Saudi Arabia should be warned" etc etc

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Driverless Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 0:47 
User avatar
Excellent Member

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 8019
Location: Cardiff


Probably the greatest driverless car sketch ever by my favourite canucks, Kids in the Hall.

_________________
"Peter you've lost the NEWS!"

Bored? Why not look at some pretty pictures on my photography blog? Here: http://petetakespictures.com

Come & See My Flickery Pics Here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nervouspete/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 230 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], Squirt and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.