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basically everything they could screw you for).

TV is probably the most expensive 'utility' we have. If you really think about it it's obscene how much you can spend on it. A friend of mine lives in Virgin territory and three or four years back he had a package on cable that was costing him £100 a month or more, internet extra (it included the now defunct Setanta, Sky Sports full movies, 3D, etc etc basically everything they could screw you for).

And I remember thinking how much money that added up to be over the course of a year. That's more than anything else I have.

I really don't mind adverts though. Not at all. I just make sure I keep my phablet on the arm of the sofa and reach for it as soon as they begin. It's great because it allows me to keep up with my emails and so on (and keep an eye on my medication reminders throughout the day). So yeah, really not fussed.

JohnCoffey wrote:

basically everything they could screw you for).

You don't have to buy it. How is anyone getting screwed?

Sooner or later, you have to face the fact that TV is expensive to make and no-one is legally going to give it to you for free.

Quote:

Sooner or later, you have to face the fact that TV is expensive to make and no-one is legally going to give it to you for free.

I already pay plenty of money to download, my NAS cost a bomb and so does the disks inside it.

No issue paying, but I don't want adds or to wait for months for new content. The adverts on Sky are dreadful as soon as they come on one channel they are on every single channel at the same time.

The model is already there with NG etc, new shows are out in 1080p add free within hours of been shown in the US

TV companies just want to keep milking the same product by holding back on release dates by regions etc.

I'm never going to buy into a SKY type model as I'm too used to what I have now, but I would be happy to pay for a decent service and I'm not alone in that, so if they want more money for there products they should change the way they do things. Guess it will never happen as if they did this a lot of people who use SKY etc would move away from it.

Quote:

Sooner or later, you have to face the fact that TV is expensive to make and no-one is legally going to give it to you for free.

I already pay plenty of money to download, my NAS cost a bomb and so does the disks inside it.

No issue paying, but I don't want adds or to wait for months for new content. The adverts on Sky are dreadful as soon as they come on one channel they are on every single channel at the same time.

Obviously asfish's arguments here are terrible but isn't the outrage a little bit rich given this forum's proud history of TV piracy stuff? *glances at "Newsgroup download automation" thread*

*glances at "Newsgroup download automation" thread*

Bamba wrote:

Obviously asfish's arguments here are terrible but isn't the outrage a little bit rich given this forum's proud history of TV piracy stuff? *glances at "Newsgroup download automation" thread*

I'm not going to tell anyone they shouldn't pirate, but I do think they shouldn't try and claim it's not an iffy thing to be doing. I download a number of TV shows from Usenet, mostly to work around the fairly rare shows that have a long delay before making it to Sky or to catch up on shows I missed when they aired; but I do still have a full Sky sub as well as Netflix and Amazon Prime, so I have paid for this stuff at one point or another, albeit in a different format. I'd feel a bit shitty downloading stuff if I didn't. I also don't download movies, I rent them from Play; the price is fair and the convenience is better than piracy. And I haven't pirated a game in many years.

I'll tell you what people really piss me off, there's one at work. He tries to make out that he has some moral objection to piracy but will happily watch stuff that someone else downloads and gives to him. Basically he's scared of getting caught.

"You're not stealing it, you're copyright infringementing it!" - LewieP

Lonewolves wrote:

"You're not stealing it, you're copyright infringementing it!" - LewieP

I'm not incorrect.

Lonewolves wrote:

"You're not stealing it, you're copyright infringementing it!" - LewieP

I'm not incorrect.

Copyright only exists because a bunch of rich people with vested interests successfully hired a swarm of lobbyists to make it exist. This isn't the case in many countries (most notably China).

And if copyright didn't exist, why would people make TV shows and movies and games and books?

You can copyright recipe books, though.

You don't need all the packages..

I survive with BT and Netflix.

I'd have to change images, descriptions and the wording on detailed descriptions of methods, but you'd still end up with the same stuff.

Grim... wrote:

I'd have to change images, descriptions and the wording on detailed descriptions of methods, but you'd still end up with the same stuff.

Further to the other answers: the obvious answer is that the layout of the page (large type, clear, easy to read) and the attractive product photography (to get inspired by) are a big parts of the value proposition of a cookbook, which is why they are all large, full colour books. And those parts are thoroughly covered by copyright.

You can't copyright a recipe, but recipe books still exist.

asfish wrote:

the NG

Why are you using the definite article here? There's more than one newsgroup on Usenet.

asfish wrote:

the NG

Why are you using the definite article here? There's more than one newsgroup on Usenet.

I'm not sure that's true. You only have to go half a dozen books down the bestseller lists in Amazon's cookbook section before you see books that aren't written by a famous chef or similar star. For example: "The Skinny Slow Cooker Recipe Book: Delicious Recipes Under 300, 400 And 500 Calories" https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BCNPY8M/ ... RwbS388FWH

alt.binary.pirateypirateypirate and alt.look.at.me.i.am.a.fish

But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.

Mr Dave wrote:

alt.binary.pirateypirateypirate and alt.look.at.me.i.am.a.fish

alt.fan.richard-gaywood, which shockingly enough is full of gay porn spam.

And I've spent £500 on Modernist Cuisine because it's PORN PORN PORN.

Grim... wrote:

But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.

I massively disagree. I think the layout, the pictures, the text used in the method, and the text used in the descriptions are vitally important - particularly so in any book that doesn't have automatic 'famous chef' sales attached.

And I've spent £500 on Modernist Cuisine because it's PORN PORN PORN.

And of course contains tons of explanatory text, all of which is totally covered under copyright

Grim... wrote:

But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.

Grim... wrote:

But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.

No, I think they're sheeple that are attempting a diet that they'll stick to for two weeks before going back to buying books about cakes by Nigella.

Cras wrote:

Grim... wrote:

But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.

You think people are buying a book called "The Skinny Slow Cooker Recipe Book: Delicious Recipes Under 300, 400 And 500 Calories" because of the pictures, rather than because they were looking for low calorie slow cooker recipes?!

Also, would I be correct in thinking that your £500 cookbook extravaganza is in a storage shed somewhere?

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 16:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
JohnCoffey wrote: basically everything they could screw you for). You don't have to buy it. How is anyone getting screwed?

Author:	KovacsC [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 23:53 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
JohnCoffey wrote: TV is probably the most expensive 'utility' we have. If you really think about it it's obscene how much you can spend on it. A friend of mine lives in Virgin territory and three or four years back he had a package on cable that was costing him £100 a month or more, internet extra (it included the now defunct Setanta, Sky Sports full movies, 3D, etc etc basically everything they could screw you for). And I remember thinking how much money that added up to be over the course of a year. That's more than anything else I have. I really don't mind adverts though. Not at all. I just make sure I keep my phablet on the arm of the sofa and reach for it as soon as they begin. It's great because it allows me to keep up with my emails and so on (and keep an eye on my medication reminders throughout the day). So yeah, really not fussed. You don't need all the packages.. I survive with BT and Netflix.

Author:	JohnCoffey [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: JohnCoffey wrote: basically everything they could screw you for). You don't have to buy it. How is anyone getting screwed? I think the sport channels cost too much. I also think footballers are overpaid (possibly because of it, but that's another debate) and it's ruined football (yet I still watch it, sucker for punishment). And no, I don't have to buy it, but when they basically vacuum up anything they think people might watch and make it expensive and PPV only I think it's a bit of a screw job (Darts for example). So yeah, just my opinion. FWIW I think Netflix and some of now TV is actually very fairly priced in comparison to something like a full priced Sky sub.

Author:	Dr Zoidberg [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
NowTV is excellent value, especially if you keep an eye out for the discounted boxes with several months passes included. You can get most of the standard Sky content for under fifty quid a year.

Author:	asfish [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Quote: Sooner or later, you have to face the fact that TV is expensive to make and no-one is legally going to give it to you for free. I already pay plenty of money to download, my NAS cost a bomb and so does the disks inside it. No issue paying, but I don't want adds or to wait for months for new content. The adverts on Sky are dreadful as soon as they come on one channel they are on every single channel at the same time. The model is already there with NG etc, new shows are out in 1080p add free within hours of been shown in the US TV companies just want to keep milking the same product by holding back on release dates by regions etc. I'm never going to buy into a SKY type model as I'm too used to what I have now, but I would be happy to pay for a decent service and I'm not alone in that, so if they want more money for there products they should change the way they do things. Guess it will never happen as if they did this a lot of people who use SKY etc would move away from it.

Be Excellent To Each Other https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

Denuvo https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10673	Page 1 of 3

Author:	MaliA [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:04 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Options include record and watch later and fast forward through the adverts, watch live but pause for 20 mins then fast forward through adverts. Is it that much of a bother?

Author:	Grim... [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Yup. Unless you have some sort of "live pause every channel" button that kicks in for half an hour at 4am each morning.

Author:	Curiosity [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
asfish wrote: Quote: Sooner or later, you have to face the fact that TV is expensive to make and no-one is legally going to give it to you for free. I already pay plenty of money to download, my NAS cost a bomb and so does the disks inside it. No issue paying, but I don't want adds or to wait for months for new content. The adverts on Sky are dreadful as soon as they come on one channel they are on every single channel at the same time. The model is already there with NG etc, new shows are out in 1080p add free within hours of been shown in the US TV companies just want to keep milking the same product by holding back on release dates by regions etc. I'm never going to buy into a SKY type model as I'm too used to what I have now, but I would be happy to pay for a decent service and I'm not alone in that, so if they want more money for there products they should change the way they do things. Guess it will never happen as if they did this a lot of people who use SKY etc would move away from it. How do you think that people get money to make all these shows that you watch? Don't try to justify it on any moral basis. You like piracy.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
asfish wrote: Quote: Sooner or later, you have to face the fact that TV is expensive to make and no-one is legally going to give it to you for free. I already pay plenty of money to download, my NAS cost a bomb and so does the disks inside it. Oh my god, are you actually saying that because you spent a lot of money on a l33t pirating setup that... it doesn't matter that no-one is paying the people who make the TV shows? Quote: No issue paying, but I don't want adds or to wait for months for new content. The adverts on Sky are dreadful as soon as they come on one channel they are on every single channel at the same time. (1) Tell Sky box to record show (2) wait until a few minutes after show starts (3) start playing show (4) fast forward adverts when they come on (5) don't see any adverts

Author:	Bamba [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Obviously asfish's arguments here are terrible but isn't the outrage a little bit rich given this forum's proud history of TV piracy stuff? glances at "Newsgroup download automation" thread

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Bamba wrote: Obviously asfish's arguments here are terrible but isn't the outrage a little bit rich given this forum's proud history of TV piracy stuff? glances at "Newsgroup download automation" thread I'm not going to tell anyone they shouldn't pirate, but I do think they shouldn't try and claim it's not an iffy thing to be doing. I download a number of TV shows from Usenet, mostly to work around the fairly rare shows that have a long delay before making it to Sky or to catch up on shows I missed when they aired; but I do still have a full Sky sub as well as Netflix and Amazon Prime, so I have paid for this stuff at one point or another, albeit in a different format. I'd feel a bit shitty downloading stuff if I didn't. I also don't download movies, I rent them from Play; the price is fair and the convenience is better than piracy. And I haven't pirated a game in many years.

Author:	Grim... [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Bamba wrote: glances at "Newsgroup download automation" thread Ha, you should see the hidden ones! But I broadly agree with the Doc - I'm happy to admit that I'm stealing content and it's not a nice thing to do. I just don't really care.

Author:	asfish [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Bamba wrote: Obviously asfish's arguments here are terrible but isn't the outrage a little bit rich given this forum's proud history of TV piracy stuff? glances at "Newsgroup download automation" thread I'm not going to tell anyone they shouldn't pirate, but I do think they shouldn't try and claim it's not an iffy thing to be doing. I download a number of TV shows from Usenet, mostly to work around the fairly rare shows that have a long delay before making it to Sky or to catch up on shows I missed when they aired; but I do still have a full Sky sub as well as Netflix and Amazon Prime, so I have paid for this stuff at one point or another, albeit in a different format. I'd feel a bit shitty downloading stuff if I didn't. I also don't download movies, I rent them from Play; the price is fair and the convenience is better than piracy. And I haven't pirated a game in many years. I buy stuff as well, Films on Blu Ray as I always find downloaded stuff has crap sound no matter how big the file is. Also have a Prime membership, and I sent 300 DVD's of TV and films to Music Magpie last year as I was sick of the clutter in the house, made sure I had downloads of it all first though. Piracy doesn't help the industry, but the industry doesn't help itself either. I'm not trying to justify it as I don't care less to be honest. All I'm saying is the that notion of piracy being free to do is not true, I do it as I can't get what I want content wise in many areas. But these days its becoming a pain in the arse to do time and cost wise so I would be happy to pay £100 a month for high quality add free content with no region restrictions.

Author:	myp [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:10 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
"You're not stealing it, you're copyright infringementing it!" - LewieP

Author:	markg [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
We have Netflix and Amazon and pay the license fee. I'll happily download anything else we really want to see (although given that we watch about an hour of TV a night it's not really a lot). I guess it's possible that some American TV producer's child is starving to death as a result of my piracy but I still really struggle to feel anything at all about pirating the odd show that doesn't appear on any of those. I'll tell you what people really piss me off, there's one at work. He tries to make out that he has some moral objection to piracy but will happily watch stuff that someone else downloads and gives to him. Basically he's scared of getting caught.

Author:	DavPaz [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
markg wrote: I'll tell you what people really piss me off, there's one at work. He tries to make out that he has some moral objection to piracy but will happily watch stuff that someone else downloads and gives to him. Basically he's scared of getting caught. I had a work colleague asking me to download rom sets for old consoles through newsgroups because he didn't want his mum to get into trouble (he lives with his mum still). He even offered to pay me. It was all so underhanded and weird. Very odd.

Author:	asfish [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Quote: I'll tell you what people really piss me off, there's one at work. He tries to make out that he has some moral objection to piracy but will happily watch stuff that someone else downloads and gives to him. Basically he's scared of getting caught. All the guys from our US office are like that, they don't have any moral objections but are terrified the FBI will catch them downloading, odd thing is most of them download films but not TV so are always after stuff when they come over to the UK.

Author:	LewieP [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Lonewolves wrote: "You're not stealing it, you're copyright infringementing it!" - LewieP I'm not incorrect. Copyright only exists because a bunch of rich people with vested interests successfully hired a swarm of lobbyists to make it exist. This isn't the case in many countries (most notably China). Copyright infringement is illegal, but I think it's up for debate whether or not it is inherently immoral. I think there is less debate to be had over theft. Regardless, if something is offered to me in the most convenient way possible, it is reasonably priced, and I am not in any way getting an inferior product compared to piracy, I happily pay for it. Otherwise I either go without or acquire a digital copy of it without the copyright holder's permission (but do not in deprive them of any of their own property). I think film/TV will catch up with music and games eventually, but because of how messy things are with film/TV it is lagging behind.

Author:	myp [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:11 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
LewieP wrote: Lonewolves wrote: "You're not stealing it, you're copyright infringementing it!" - LewieP I'm not incorrect. I didn't say you weren't.

Author:	Grim... [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
LewieP wrote: Copyright infringement is illegal, but I think it's up for debate whether or not it is inherently immoral. Christ, really? I guess I'll go and register savvygamer.com.

Author:	Cras [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Yeah, I don't think there's even the slightest bit of doubt that it's immoral.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:33 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
LewieP wrote: Lonewolves wrote: "You're not stealing it, you're copyright infringementing it!" - LewieP I'm not incorrect. Sure, but literally no-one here is confused about this distinction, so why are you beating this drum? Quote: Copyright only exists because a bunch of rich people with vested interests successfully hired a swarm of lobbyists to make it exist. This isn't the case in many countries (most notably China). Uh huh. And if copyright didn't exist, why would people make TV shows and movies and games and books? I like those things and would like people to be able to earn a living making them so I can keep watching and playing and reading them. I don't work for free and I don't see why anyone else should either. Quote: Copyright infringement is illegal, but I think it's up for debate whether or not it is inherently immoral. You can debate it if you like but let's stick to the economics, which are much clearer. In the limit as piracy approaches infinity, sales approach zero, and content creation also approaches zero. As much as it's clear that the *AA's stance that "every copy pirated is a sale lost", it's equally clearly nonsense to suggest the inverse -- that no-one has ever not bought something because they pirated it. Or is that seriously what you are saying?

Author:	myp [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
If it's not inherently immoral to pirate games then what is the point of running a consumer website? Just advise everyone to pirate them.

Author:	Grim... [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: And if copyright didn't exist, why would people make TV shows and movies and games and books? You can't copyright a recipe, but recipe books still exist.

Author:	markg [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
You can copyright recipe books, though.

Author:	Grim... [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
markg wrote: You can copyright recipe books, though. But not the recipes in them. Technically I could release a "big book of new things to cook" each month with recipes skimmed from all the cook books that came out that month. I'd have to change images, descriptions and the wording on detailed descriptions of methods, but you'd still end up with the same stuff.

Author:	Cras [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
You can copyright a recipe, too. You can't copyright a list of ingredients or a set of cooking processes, but the recipe typically contains original writing that is copyrightable.

Author:	JohnCoffey [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 13:01 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
KovacsC wrote: You don't need all the packages.. I survive with BT and Netflix. Well this brings me to another point. I don't, in theory, need any of that. Just a nice fast internet connection and possibly a news account somewhere. Up until I subbed to Sky Sports (inc F1 which I don't watch and darts, which Sky have now realised wasn't the golden egg they thought it was and is now making its way back to terrestrial TV (ITV 4 etc) I was watching every football game I wanted to watch at any time (even the ones that were not broadcast on any UK channel anywhere) for free. TBH? since subbing to Sky Sports (@ £32 a month) I've had more trouble with it than streaming football for free via my browser. Certain games are fine, but, get to something like Chelsea and Man U (99% of British football fans) and it either keeps freezing or I get the most low res low rent stream I've ever seen. It's like watching two blocks of different colour fuzz on a green background. £32 a month. Yet still I pay it and I hardly ever use it. What? three games of a weekend and don't watch football during the week. that was a bit of a joke, don't take it seriously. I've seen people actually claim that they are entitled to anything they want because they are paying £60 a month for their internet. You'd be amazed how many people I have seen who buy better internet packages solely based on what they can steal with it and how fast they can steal it compared to a cheaper solution. We got fibre 72mb from day one when we moved in here. Mostly because we had been living in a farm house arse end of nowhere and getting 3mb if we were lucky and a 100gb cap. After around a year I realised it was a complete waste of money, because most of what I do is legal and so we dropped it to 40mb, £15 cheaper a month

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 14:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Grim... wrote: I'd have to change images, descriptions and the wording on detailed descriptions of methods, but you'd still end up with the same stuff. Further to the other answers: the obvious answer is that the layout of the page (large type, clear, easy to read) and the attractive product photography (to get inspired by) are a big parts of the value proposition of a cookbook, which is why they are all large, full colour books. And those parts are thoroughly covered by copyright.

Author:	Cras [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 14:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Also the interest of the recipe. The Man Chilli recipe for example, wouldn't have quite the impact without the (some might say extraneous) prose.

Author:	Grim... [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Grim... wrote: I'd have to change images, descriptions and the wording on detailed descriptions of methods, but you'd still end up with the same stuff. Further to the other answers: the obvious answer is that the layout of the page (large type, clear, easy to read) and the attractive product photography (to get inspired by) are a big parts of the value proposition of a cookbook, which is why they are all large, full colour books. And those parts are thoroughly covered by copyright. It's the name on the cover that matters, silly.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
I'm not sure that's true. You only have to go half a dozen books down the bestseller lists in Amazon's cookbook section before you see books that aren't written by a famous chef or similar star. For example: "The Skinny Slow Cooker Recipe Book: Delicious Recipes Under 300, 400 And 500 Calories" https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BCNPY8M/ ... RwbS388FWH

Author:	asfish [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:44 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Quote: You can't copyright a recipe, but recipe books still exist. Lots of them on the NG as well

Author:	asfish [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Denuvo
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: asfish wrote: the NG Why are you using the definite article here? There's more than one newsgroup on Usenet. Because I'm a pirate without morals.