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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:30 
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Yeah, I don't think there's even the slightest bit of doubt that it's immoral.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:33 
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LewieP wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
"You're not stealing it, you're copyright infringementing it!" - LewieP

I'm not incorrect.
Sure, but literally no-one here is confused about this distinction, so why are you beating this drum?

Quote:
Copyright only exists because a bunch of rich people with vested interests successfully hired a swarm of lobbyists to make it exist. This isn't the case in many countries (most notably China).
Uh huh. And if copyright didn't exist, why would people make TV shows and movies and games and books? I like those things and would like people to be able to earn a living making them so I can keep watching and playing and reading them. I don't work for free and I don't see why anyone else should either.

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Copyright infringement is illegal, but I think it's up for debate whether or not it is inherently immoral.
You can debate it if you like but let's stick to the economics, which are much clearer. In the limit as piracy approaches infinity, sales approach zero, and content creation also approaches zero. As much as it's clear that the *AA's stance that "every copy pirated is a sale lost", it's equally clearly nonsense to suggest the inverse -- that no-one has ever not bought something because they pirated it. Or is that seriously what you are saying?


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:38 
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If it's not inherently immoral to pirate games then what is the point of running a consumer website? Just advise everyone to pirate them.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:46 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
And if copyright didn't exist, why would people make TV shows and movies and games and books?

You can't copyright a recipe, but recipe books still exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:48 
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You can copyright recipe books, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:51 
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markg wrote:
You can copyright recipe books, though.

But not the recipes in them. Technically I could release a "big book of new things to cook" each month with recipes skimmed from all the cook books that came out that month. I'd have to change images, descriptions and the wording on detailed descriptions of methods, but you'd still end up with the same stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:52 
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You can copyright a recipe, too. You can't copyright a list of ingredients or a set of cooking processes, but the recipe typically contains original writing that is copyrightable.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 13:01 
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KovacsC wrote:
You don't need all the packages..

I survive with BT and Netflix.


Well this brings me to another point. I don't, in theory, need any of that. Just a nice fast internet connection and possibly a news account somewhere.

Up until I subbed to Sky Sports (inc F1 which I don't watch and darts, which Sky have now realised wasn't the golden egg they thought it was and is now making its way back to terrestrial TV (ITV 4 etc) I was watching every football game I wanted to watch at any time (even the ones that were not broadcast on any UK channel anywhere) for free.

TBH? since subbing to Sky Sports (@ £32 a month) I've had more trouble with it than streaming football for free via my browser. Certain games are fine, but, get to something like Chelsea and Man U (99% of British football fans*) and it either keeps freezing or I get the most low res low rent stream I've ever seen. It's like watching two blocks of different colour fuzz on a green background. £32 a month. Yet still I pay it and I hardly ever use it. What? three games of a weekend and don't watch football during the week.

* that was a bit of a joke, don't take it seriously.

I've seen people actually claim that they are entitled to anything they want because they are paying £60 a month for their internet. You'd be amazed how many people I have seen who buy better internet packages solely based on what they can steal with it and how fast they can steal it compared to a cheaper solution.

We got fibre 72mb from day one when we moved in here. Mostly because we had been living in a farm house arse end of nowhere and getting 3mb if we were lucky and a 100gb cap. After around a year I realised it was a complete waste of money, because most of what I do is legal and so we dropped it to 40mb, £15 cheaper a month :)

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 14:28 
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Grim... wrote:
I'd have to change images, descriptions and the wording on detailed descriptions of methods, but you'd still end up with the same stuff.
Further to the other answers: the obvious answer is that the layout of the page (large type, clear, easy to read) and the attractive product photography (to get inspired by) are a big parts of the value proposition of a cookbook, which is why they are all large, full colour books. And those parts are thoroughly covered by copyright.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 14:30 
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Also the interest of the recipe. The Man Chilli recipe for example, wouldn't have quite the impact without the (some might say extraneous) prose.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:32 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
I'd have to change images, descriptions and the wording on detailed descriptions of methods, but you'd still end up with the same stuff.
Further to the other answers: the obvious answer is that the layout of the page (large type, clear, easy to read) and the attractive product photography (to get inspired by) are a big parts of the value proposition of a cookbook, which is why they are all large, full colour books. And those parts are thoroughly covered by copyright.

It's the name on the cover that matters, silly.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:43 
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I'm not sure that's true. You only have to go half a dozen books down the bestseller lists in Amazon's cookbook section before you see books that aren't written by a famous chef or similar star. For example: "The Skinny Slow Cooker Recipe Book: Delicious Recipes Under 300, 400 And 500 Calories" https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BCNPY8M/ ... RwbS388FWH


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:44 
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Quote:
You can't copyright a recipe, but recipe books still exist.


Lots of them on the NG as well :)


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:45 
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Even by Beex's standards, this thread has some some impressive scope creep.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:46 
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asfish wrote:
the NG
Why are you using the definite article here? There's more than one newsgroup on Usenet.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:50 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
asfish wrote:
the NG
Why are you using the definite article here? There's more than one newsgroup on Usenet.


Because I'm a pirate without morals.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:51 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
asfish wrote:
the NG
Why are you using the definite article here? There's more than one newsgroup on Usenet.

Indeed. There are two.

alt.binary.pirateypirateypirate and alt.look.at.me.i.am.a.fish


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:52 
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When you initialise a plural, should you add the "s" on the end?

"Lots of them on the newsgroups as well"


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:54 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I'm not sure that's true. You only have to go half a dozen books down the bestseller lists in Amazon's cookbook section before you see books that aren't written by a famous chef or similar star. For example: "The Skinny Slow Cooker Recipe Book: Delicious Recipes Under 300, 400 And 500 Calories" https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BCNPY8M/ ... RwbS388FWH

But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.

I'm not saying that no-one would prefer the "original" book over the "copy" book, but doing nice layouts or taking nice pictures isn't overly difficult (especially the former, once you've found a format that works).

But it's odd that no-one does it. Or maybe they do. Fuck knows.

Recipes aren't subject to copyright, you know ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 15:54 
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Mr Dave wrote:
alt.binary.pirateypirateypirate and alt.look.at.me.i.am.a.fish

alt.fan.richard-gaywood, which shockingly enough is full of gay porn spam.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:06 
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Grim... wrote:
But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.


I massively disagree. I think the layout, the pictures, the text used in the method, and the text used in the descriptions are vitally important - particularly so in any book that doesn't have automatic 'famous chef' sales attached.

And I've spent £500 on Modernist Cuisine because it's PORN PORN PORN.

And of course contains tons of explanatory text, all of which is totally covered under copyright

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:06 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
alt.binary.pirateypirateypirate and alt.look.at.me.i.am.a.fish

alt.fan.richard-gaywood, which shockingly enough is full of gay porn spam.

Is it gay porn spam featuring the internets famous Dr Richard Gaywood?


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:08 
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Cras wrote:
And I've spent £500 on Modernist Cuisine because it's PORN PORN PORN.

Is it PORN PORN PORN featuring the internets famous Dr Richard Gaywood?


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:12 
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Cras wrote:
Grim... wrote:
But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.


I massively disagree. I think the layout, the pictures, the text used in the method, and the text used in the descriptions are vitally important - particularly so in any book that doesn't have automatic 'famous chef' sales attached.

And I've spent £500 on Modernist Cuisine because it's PORN PORN PORN.

And of course contains tons of explanatory text, all of which is totally covered under copyright

Isn't it more that lists can't be copyrighted?

In which case, can Buzzfeed claim to own copyright on any of their articles? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:14 
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Cras wrote:
Grim... wrote:
But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.


I massively disagree. I think the layout, the pictures, the text used in the method, and the text used in the descriptions are vitally important - particularly so in any book that doesn't have automatic 'famous chef' sales attached.

And I've spent £500 on Modernist Cuisine because it's PORN PORN PORN.

And of course contains tons of explanatory text, all of which is totally covered under copyright


I always thought that Modernist Cuisine was Heston cooking stuff that looked good on TV but was far too impractical to do at home, an Amazon search has proved me wrong and there are some interesting books on this.

I tend to cook from "Celebrity" chef books, which I buy for sod all in charity shops. If I was to buy any cook book brand new I would want to see some recipes first and try one. A number of recipes from my books have needed some slight adjustments to make them work, which is pretty crap when the book is costing £20 or more new.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:15 
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http://www.spam.com/recipes

Some great recipes here.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:18 
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Cras wrote:
Grim... wrote:
But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.

I massively disagree. I think the layout, the pictures, the text used in the method, and the text used in the descriptions are vitally important - particularly so in any book that doesn't have automatic 'famous chef' sales attached.

You think people are buying a book called "The Skinny Slow Cooker Recipe Book: Delicious Recipes Under 300, 400 And 500 Calories" because of the pictures, rather than because they were looking for low calorie slow cooker recipes?!

Also, would I be correct in thinking that your £500 cookbook extravaganza is in a storage shed somewhere?

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:26 
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No, I think they're sheeple that are attempting a diet that they'll stick to for two weeks before going back to buying books about cakes by Nigella.

Yes. It is in a shed. But I think about it and touch myself sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 16:45 
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Cras wrote:
No, I think they're sheeple that are attempting a diet that they'll stick to for two weeks before going back to buying books about cakes by Nigella.

And that ain't got nothing to do with the quality of the cake pictures.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 17:22 
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Grim... wrote:
Cras wrote:
Grim... wrote:
But I'd suggest that the sales of that book have little to do with the nice pictures or page layout.

I massively disagree. I think the layout, the pictures, the text used in the method, and the text used in the descriptions are vitally important - particularly so in any book that doesn't have automatic 'famous chef' sales attached.

You think people are buying a book called "The Skinny Slow Cooker Recipe Book: Delicious Recipes Under 300, 400 And 500 Calories" because of the pictures, rather than because they were looking for low calorie slow cooker recipes?!

Also, would I be correct in thinking that your £500 cookbook extravaganza is in a storage shed somewhere?



Don't need much space to store £500 worth of those books!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modernist-Cuisi ... st+cuisine


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 17:54 
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I don't think you can judge a book from its cover.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 18:02 
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asfish wrote:
Don't need much space to store £500 worth of those books!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modernist-Cuisi ... st+cuisine


You kinda do. It's fucking huge and bastard heavy. Each of those books is only a little smaller than an Encyclopaedia Britannica volume.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 19:44 
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Can I ask the story behind these books? Did you buy them all at once? Do you use them? Have you used them?


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 19:58 
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Yes, no, yes

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 19:59 
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They're more of a reference library and interesting collection rather than cookbooks

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 20:12 
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Cras wrote:
They're more of a reference library and interesting collection rather than cookbooks


I have a copy of Blackstone's Criminal Practice somewhere which is much the same. But with more murder. I love reference books.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 20:27 
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MaliA wrote:

I have a copy of Blackstone's Criminal Practice somewhere which is much the same. But with more murder. I love reference books.

Less murder than the typical cookbook, I'd wager. Those chickens and cows don't commit suicide in slaughterhouses.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 21:26 
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My firm drops £500 on pulped wood versions of tax legislation (for over ten people, each) every twelve months and burn the previous 12 months copies. It's publicly available and non copyright as its the fucking law. And we have it as an online resource that requires no paper copies.

And then I contemplate why my firm isn't as profitable as it could be.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 21:44 
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Five grand a year? That's probably three entire hours of your chargeout rate.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 21:50 
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That's generous. Five grand is a good day.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 23:43 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
MaliA wrote:

I have a copy of Blackstone's Criminal Practice somewhere which is much the same. But with more murder. I love reference books.

Less murder than the typical cookbook, I'd wager. Those chickens and cows don't commit suicide in slaughterhouses.


Them not reasonable creatures. Unlike me.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 13:20 
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What-ho, chaps!

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Quote:
I've been hearing that Steam now have a friends and family feature where you can share your entire library with 'X' people (I don't know the exact details). That's pretty freakin' awesome.


He doesn't want to share his entire library. What if he wants to play Pure while I want to play Split/Second? It simply doesn't let you do that.

And it doesn't work for every game anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 15:10 
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MrD wrote:
Quote:
I've been hearing that Steam now have a friends and family feature where you can share your entire library with 'X' people (I don't know the exact details). That's pretty freakin' awesome.


He doesn't want to share his entire library. What if he wants to play Pure while I want to play Split/Second? It simply doesn't let you do that.

And it doesn't work for every game anyway.


I hadn't actually looked into the ins and outs of it tbh. Just heard about it the other day and thought it was a nice idea.

Mind you let's face it if a company wants their game protected and pays for it (because Denuvo devs don't work for free) then I doubt they would let people share it either.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 13:51 
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3DM suspending operations to see if it has an impact on game sales (supposedly)

http://www.overclock3d.net/articles/gpu ... me_sales/1

Hmm, are they just trying not to look defeated?

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 14:42 
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'LATEST COPY PROTECTION MAKES PIRACY IMPOSSIBLE'

Pirate group says, 'Totally not related to the above in any way, but we're going to stop pirating stuff for a bit'.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 21:52 
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https://torrentfreak.com/hang-on-3dm-no ... vo-160211/

Quote:

Hang on…..3DM Now Suggest They’ve Cracked Denuvo

With the video games market excited at the prospect of 3DM taking a year-long break, the Chinese cracking group has just thrown a wrench in the works. According to 3DM's leader, speculation that her team can't beat Denuvo has proven too much and they now appear determined to publish a solution, albeit in unorthodox fashion.

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of video games players around the world obtain their fix from pirate sources. It’s been that way for more than 30 years, only the numbers have grown over time.

However, in the ‘old days’ people could do most of their copying at home, with a couple of cassette decks or software to shift data between 5.25″ floppy disks. But times have changed and although piracy still exists, people now largely rely on a tiny number of so-called ‘cracking’ experts to break copy protection for them.

One of those groups is Chinese outfit 3DM who in recent years have delighted pirate gamers with free copies of some of the world’s greatest titles. Technology companies have always done their best to thwart groups like 3DM and earlier this year came the most promising news to date.

Out of the blue, 3DM announced that the latest iteration of the infamous Denuvo anti-tamper technology had proven so resistant that in a couple of years PC games piracy might become non-existent.

Then, just a couple of weeks later, 3DM put the icing on the cake when they announced that in order to let the official games market breathe, they would be taking a year off from cracking games.

With games producers everywhere super excited at the prospect of a market free from the nuisance of 3DM, optimism of a boosted-revenue future was high. However, while it seems 3DM can deliver surprise gifts with one hand, apparently they can just as easily take them away with the other.

According to a new announcement by the group’s almost rock-star-famous leader, 3DM have decided they are not quite done. Apparently, growing speculation that the group aren’t up to the job of cracking Denuvo has provided them with new inspiration to prove the masses wrong.

“3DM will soon announce that we have a solution to the latest Denuvo encryption used on games including ‘FIFA 16’, ‘Just Cause 3’, and ‘Tomb Raider: The Rise’,” 3DM leader Bird Sister just announced.

“We [made this announcement] because a lot of players believe we have abandoned cracking due to technical problems, but we will prove it is not the case,” Bird Sister continues.

“We have not yet been stumped [by protection measures].”

Although this announcement flies in the face of some of 3DM’s earlier comments, the news will be received with disappointment by games developers and publishers, not to mention the team at Denuvo. 3DM had been leading the charge on Denuvo-protected titles so a break could’ve given valuable breathing space.

But that said, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and until pirates have tasted the joys of a fully cracked Just Cause 3, their appetites will remain in full force. In other words they’ll believe this game has been cracked when they actually play it at home – thus far there is no sign of a release.

Interestingly, should cracked copies eventually arrive at the hands of 3DM, the group won’t be taking the credit. A somewhat counter-productive comment by Bird Sister indicates that 3DM will not take the usual path on release since they don’t want to attract too much attention.

“Of course, this will not be a high-profile or official 3DM release,” she concludes.


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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 14:46 
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Esoteric

Joined: 12th Dec, 2008
Posts: 11767
Location: On Mars as an anthropologist...
Yup I just came over here to post that. We shall see.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 15:48 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

Joined: 25th Sep, 2008
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Location: shropshire, uk
I agree with piracy protection on games.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 17:15 
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Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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And galleons.

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 Post subject: Re: Denuvo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 17:20 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
Cras wrote:
And galleons.


I disarrrgree

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